Mind Sear, Mind Spike, Mind Soothe and Mind Control

[Purple]

I've felt for awhile now that the weakened Mind Sear should be made a Catalyst that Spreads existing DoTs around (at a percentage of their actual effectiveness), rather than the Channeled (and weak) AoE it currently exists as.

I've felt for awhile now that the DoT removing Mind Spike should be made an instant cast Detonator, rather than a remover, of DoT; one that returns a portion of DoT damage instantly in exchange for removing them.

I've felt for awhile now that the aggro radius reducing Mind Soothe should have a talented or glyphed effect available to give it a redirect-like function or a sap-like function meant to trade one brand of little used utility for something for sensible in an environment where, hopefully, CC matters and means something again.

I've felt for awhile now that the channeled CC Mind Control should have a talented or glyphed effect that allows you to enslave a humanoid as a temporary pet, much like Warlocks can enslave demons, for a reasonable duration (roughly equivalent to a demon enslave) at the drawback of no longer working on player characters in PvP if you have this talent or glyph.

I feel that the Spec doesn't need to be changed into something else to make up for its shortcomings in certain situations, but rather aspects of the Spec that are core should be supplemented and evolved into a new state.

While I realize, inevitable, I may be in the minority; the idea - especially where glyphed and talented abilities are concerned - of having more choices to make, that may shut off other potential possibilities, is one of those aspects I think of as fun. Mind Spike especially, in its current form, doesn't feel like a choice but a inevitable consequence of a problem that should be solved at the base rather than simply patching the cracks up at the top.

This isn't to say that These Things Should Happen, but to give example of alternatives. I feel it, it doesn't necessarily make it a good idea, but I'd just rather we all think of an evolution to our abilities to help in situations where we show a weakness, rather than a replacement or bandage for said situations.

Maybe that's just me though, your mileage may vary.

[Annesh]

What, no hyperbole about shadowpriests being a support-based spec?

I've lost faith in you, Purple.

By the way, Mind Soothe should have a tranq component. That would rule!

[smashzu]

I agree mind sear is weak, and I'd like to see it come back to glory.
Haven't played with mind spike, but as it is, it seems fine to me to have something spammable (for say kinetic bombs on HBPC) and to have something usable when we get locked out of shadow.
Mind Soothe - Honestly, Couldn't care less. Sorry.
Mind Control - While the enslave mechanic sounds really really cool, I love mcing people off cliffs too much. Plus, I heard from my beta friends that MC is coming back in a big way in cata, every instance has Thorim-esque mobs to MC.

[Thrayne]

I agree mind sear is weak, and I'd like to see it come back to glory.
Haven't played with mind spike, but as it is, it seems fine to me to have something spammable (for say kinetic bombs on HBPC) and to have something usable when we get locked out of shadow.
Mind Soothe - Honestly, Couldn't care less. Sorry.
Mind Control - While the enslave mechanic sounds really really cool, I love mcing people off cliffs too much. Plus, I heard from my beta friends that MC is coming back in a big way in cata, every instance has Thorim-esque mobs to MC.

Because MCing on Thorim was necessary right?

but Actually purple this is the first constructive thoughtful post you have made, I support these ideas for weak/failing spells.

[smashzu]

Because MCing on Thorim was necessary right?

but Actually purple this is the first constructive thoughtful post you have made, I support these ideas for weak/failing spells.

Necessary, no. More interesting than just dpsing a boss, you betcha.

[tehmark]

Shackle should work on all mobs. that would make me extremely happy. don't care about players

[Ultima]

A Major Glyph of Shackle to allow it to be used on all mobs would be nice, they can easily make it so it doesn't work in PvP, if necessary. I think they turned it off and on again with Repentance a million times, right? Not to mention the utter lack of Major Glyphs for Shadow PvE.

I like the idea of making Mind Sear similar to Pestilence, but with a Chain Lightening "debuff". However, how do we know what is the full strength DoT and what is the lesser copy? Again, can't be too hard to change the icon of the "spread" DoTs, make them have a purple border or darken the icon, or something.

I'm not sure about the Mind Spike idea. It requires DoTs to be applied when the idea for PvE is that it allows us to switch to mobs at the snap of a finger without needing to "ramp up" again. I dislike that Mind Spike removes the DoTs and has a cast time, while Mages run around with Frost Spike and Scorch, I can really go off on a rant about Mages and their insane mobility (and deadly damage while moving), but that's for another thread.

Big ol' no on Mind Control. I love it too much in E & P. In PvE you can use it to CC a mob at the cost of your damage, however not only are you preventing damage, you have the ability to do damage with that mob and the likely ability to use their abilities. In PvP, throwing players off of bridges and cliffs is too comic and niche to ditch. Boomkins gets Hurricane, Shamans get Thunderstorm, we do not get a love-it-and-leave-it spell, we get something that is...funner. Not to mention being able to DoT up an enemy and hold them, in turn having something other than Fear to force a trinket use. Not only that, but the ability to stop a player healing or being healed, again at the cost of us doing healing/damage, but I think being able to weigh the cost and assess the situation in order to do the right thing is a great part of being a (Shadow) Priest.

---------- Post added 2010-11-13 at 05:49 AM ----------

Because MCing on Thorim was necessary right?

It was for the achievement. Oh snap.

[Arrelliana]

I agree mind control is one of the truly unique CC abilities in game and luckily hasn't been handed out to other classes. I definately like to keep our niche spells intact while we can. Mind sear would be great if they let it spread swain. Then our shadow army could kick into high gear.

I also agree with mind soothe should be able to function as a tranq spell like druids soothe. It only makes sense and would fit nicely in our repertoire.

I may be nostalgic but I would sacrifice some of the goodies of other classes to remain unique as long as our output is not sacrificed.

[Thrayne]

Necessary, no. More interesting than just dpsing a boss, you betcha.

Too bad MC is pretty much a taunt so when you let it go a tank has to taunt it back or you are dead . One of the biggest short comings of MC in my opinion.

[Crpzz]

Ever heard of fade?

[Ryme]

It would be pretty awesome if Mind Sear spread dots, but technically I imagine it would be too hard to implement in a truly successful manner. Pestilence works because the dk dots aren't the major dps or threat spells for the dk, what is is how the rest of the DK spells work with diseases. Most of their spells work by doing more damage per disease on the target.

However, the same isn't true for spriests, a vast amount of our damage comes naturally from our DoTs. So, if we were allowed to freely spread our diseases around without much effort we hit some issues. Should this spread hit an unlimited amount of targets? Should the spread dots tick for the same amount or at the same speed as your main dots? How do you balance this for PvP? What about Shadow Word: Pain's interaction with Shadowy Apparition?

Ultimately, I imagine this would cause one headache too many for the dev's to bother with, I imagine they'll just up the coefficients of what we already have.

[Ershiin]

Mind Bullets.. Thats what we really need!

[dekadron]

Don't forget about mind vision!

I use mind soothe almost every day! I'm grinding the argent tourney for all the mounts, and whenever I have to say the prayers on the fallen walrus people, I mind soothe all the viking dudes so they don't attack me.

Of course it's totally unecessary, I could quite easily kill all the vikings, but hey it's fun.

I am sad about mind sear literally being less damage than multi-dotting, something really needs to be done about that, because there is literally no use for mind sear currently, you might as well not even have the spell.

[Purple]

I like the idea of making Mind Sear similar to Pestilence, but with a Chain Lightening "debuff". However, how do we know what is the full strength DoT and what is the lesser copy? Again, can't be too hard to change the icon of the "spread" DoTs, make them have a purple border or darken the icon, or something.

That would be something to consider, definitely.

I'm not sure about the Mind Spike idea. It requires DoTs to be applied when the idea for PvE is that it allows us to switch to mobs at the snap of a finger without needing to "ramp up" again. I dislike that Mind Spike removes the DoTs and has a cast time, while Mages run around with Frost Spike and Scorch, I can really go off on a rant about Mages and their insane mobility (and deadly damage while moving), but that's for another thread.

I think that's sort of why I made the decision to add on, the instant part. At the end of the day you bring up a good point though.

Big ol' no on Mind Control. I love it too much in E & P. In PvE you can use it to CC a mob at the cost of your damage, however not only are you preventing damage, you have the ability to do damage with that mob and the likely ability to use their abilities. In PvP, throwing players off of bridges and cliffs is too comic and niche to ditch. Boomkins gets Hurricane, Shamans get Thunderstorm, we do not get a love-it-and-leave-it spell, we get something that is...funner. Not to mention being able to DoT up an enemy and hold them, in turn having something other than Fear to force a trinket use. Not only that, but the ability to stop a player healing or being healed, again at the cost of us doing healing/damage, but I think being able to weigh the cost and assess the situation in order to do the right thing is a great part of being a (Shadow) Priest.

---------- Post added 2010-11-13 at 05:49 AM ----------



It was for the achievement. Oh snap.

I rather agree, which is why I used the glyph/talent portion. It should be a choice, if you want the old capability, you keep it, but if you want something like a demon enslave for humanoids.. you have to sacrifice its PvP application. Both exist, but you can't do both. A decision, player choice, being required. I think that's one of the things they brought up that interested me most about the new talent pools, that there should be real viable choices in there. I think that point specifically is what inspired an idea like that.

However, the same isn't true for spriests, a vast amount of our damage comes naturally from our DoTs. So, if we were allowed to freely spread our diseases around without much effort we hit some issues. Should this spread hit an unlimited amount of targets? Should the spread dots tick for the same amount or at the same speed as your main dots? How do you balance this for PvP? What about Shadow Word: Pain's interaction with Shadowy Apparition?

Well, actually, they shouldn't tick for the same amount as your main DoTs, at least that's what the idea was meant to convey.

The sacrifice of spreading them in such a manner was, instantly, up front, that spread DoTs would only do a portion of the damage of the DoTs they were spread from. This is to go with the idea that AoE should be present, but not dominating, which seems to be their new direction. It should be there and effective under the right circumstances, but not out of control.. hence the need for a reduction in damage to spread DoTs is a given.

The interaction with Shadowy Apparitions is already being taken into account, a limit is being put on the number of apparitions you can have up at any one time.

[Veritas]

I definitely agree with you on the Mind Spike thing. At the moment on beta, it's just a little disappointing. I still haven't found it useful.

[eightohfive]

Mind Control is a VERY strong CC in cataclysm beta right now

[Hawthorne]

I thought this was post about how shit the naming of Shadow Priest abilities was :< #Disapointed.

[Daggy1111]

My only real problem with spreist is mind spike. If they did something to were it worked with dark angle, that would work, otherwise the spell is kind of crappy and a poor choice of spell to try and patch up spreist pvp. Other then that though, I would like to see mind sooth get something else, as it is a spell that is rarely if ever used, and also mind sear is a joke now. Mind control thing would be cool and all, but I don't see it happening.

[Chieftain Hogger]

we just need a new spell.

Mind Blow
3 sec cast (dont scale with haste)
25 yards
blow the targets mind and add sw: pain on all beings withing 10 yards
friendly fire possilbe

(srry for spelling)

[smashzu]

I don't get all the hate on mind spike. It fills a much needed gap in our arsenal. It gives us something spammable on targets like kinetic bombs and LK ice spheres, and gives you something to cast when you get locked out of shadow. Who cares if it's not useful in our main rotation, we don't need another spell.

---------- Post added 2010-11-14 at 09:36 PM ----------

Too bad MC is pretty much a taunt so when you let it go a tank has to taunt it back or you are dead . One of the biggest short comings of MC in my opinion.

fade ftw?

---------- Post added 2010-11-14 at 09:55 PM ----------

On the note of mind sear, having it spread dots like a pestilence type spell doesn't seem like it would ever be implemented. There are a few things they could do with it, though.
a) Increase base damage enough that it is worth casting again, but not to the point of being useful on 3-4 mobs, something that feels like a legit AoE and not just an afterthought.
b) make it into a SoC/LB type spell that doesnt require it to be channeled, this would add an aoe effect but allow us to continue our normal multi dot rotation.
c) allow mind sear to *refresh* (not apply) SW: P when you are spec'd into Pain and Suffering. This seems like the easiest way to make it useful again. On AE packs, I find that by the time I have mobs dotted, and would use MS, the dots are ready to fall off, this change would allow us to actually use MS without losing the main part of our damage from dots falling off.