vigilance constant nerf...

[icegoddess]

so why is it that blizzard is making me spec out of vig when 4.0.3 hit and a target doesnt even take reduced damage? seems almost worthless. can only see it being good during a fight that requires two tanks with hateful strikes or something....

[Cernunnos]

You're a warrior. You should be used to constant nerfs by now.



I really do get why they changed Vigilance either. Reduced damage was nice. Used to put it on my mage buddy when we two manned heroics (TBC ones), for rep.

[wicker]

i used it in pvp/arena when i was running with a healer but always respeced/droped it 4 raids if ur doing ur job u dont need it

i mean yea it sucks but meh its always been a filler talent any ways

[Naus]

IMO it should be given to you when you spec Prot. It isnt that great of a talent anymore. Like Wicker said, If you are doing your job you shouldnt need it.

[Spondoo]

Vigilance wasn't that great of a talent to begin with- that is until I began DPSing and thus my tanking gear fell behind the current DPS standard.

[icegoddess]

well when i was gearing up and i had some full icc geared fury warrior 10% threat transfer was pretty effin nice =/

[mmff4]

You didn't need vigilance? Vigilance was and is one of the greatest talents in protection tree due to the fact you can reset taunt cooldown by using it correctly. Give it to your MT and you don't need to worry about taunt misses anymore. On LK heroic it's a must have talent for a protection warrior when you're tanking horrors and taunting valkyrs in P2. Pre-4.0.1 if you specced Vigilance you were able to pick up items w/o expertise or hit thus giving you more damage mitigation and avoidance and still be able to keep aggro from high dps classes.

[Trigg]

i used it in pvp/arena when i was running with a healer but always respeced/droped it 4 raids if ur doing ur job u dont need it

i mean yea it sucks but meh its always been a filler talent any ways

Im sorry, what? Having constant taunt refresh is a bad thing? how can you dis such an awesome talent, it bloody brilliant.

Ever tried tanking the adds on LK phase 1 without ever using vigilance? :P

the guy above me's got it right.

Technically on hard hitting bosses that are damaging both or all the tanks (depending on how many tanks there are) you can still use it to generate more threat since it gives you more vigilance from the other tank, therefore more dmg from you = more threat.

[MerinPally]

Ever tried tanking the adds on LK phase 1 without ever using vigilance? :P

What this guy said. I'm a paladin tank personally but when I decided to raid with old friends (some of which arent very good) we had to have our warrior tank put Vigi on me, as the warrior was too squishy to tank LK wheras if I did, I didn't need a single taunt the entire fight. This allowed him to have a constant supply of ghouls as we don't have a rogue, and on the sub phases with raging spirits, she'd mash her taunt button to hold aggro - it also worked wonders with Vile Spirits.

Even pre patch if your other tank was sentient, you wouldn't have aggro problems, but having a constant supply of taunts far outweighed the threat loss. Not sure the threat loss exists post-patch, but everyone else can taunt once every 8 seconds - you can tant once every 2 seconds and prepare for the worse, and if you miss you get some respite - why WOULDN'T you get this talent?

[icegoddess]

You didn't need vigilance? Vigilance was and is one of the greatest talents in protection tree due to the fact you can reset taunt cooldown by using it correctly. Give it to your MT and you don't need to worry about taunt misses anymore. On LK heroic it's a must have talent for a protection warrior when you're tanking horrors and taunting valkyrs in P2. Pre-4.0.1 if you specced Vigilance you were able to pick up items w/o expertise or hit thus giving you more damage mitigation and avoidance and still be able to keep aggro from high dps classes.

if your not hit capped and raiding as a tank then there is something wrong

[Deleted]

if your not hit capped and raiding as a tank then there is something wrong

No, it's not. If your threat is = your highest dpsers tps, then that's enough.

Though it's easy to be capped so I like staying capped, but it's far from necessary...

Im sorry, what? Having constant taunt refresh is a bad thing? how can you dis such an awesome talent, it bloody brilliant.

Ever tried tanking the adds on LK phase 1 without ever using vigilance? :P

It's actually quite easy. You don't need every ghoul on your ass, the one you can pick up before the first shambler, some with your occasional Heroic Throw and if you keep taunt on CD are definately enough to win the encounter.

Encounters will never be designed around needing the taunt refresh. They may/will be designed to let you benefit from it, but it should be considered "that fun extra utility". The base ability of Vigilance is the Vengeance-transfer which is "ok". Not bloody amazing, but ok. I'll be using it.

[Kewok]

Try thinking about LK P3 - I always volunteer myself to OT soak vile-spirits in P3, because Vigilance is absolutely gorgeous in that phase. Quickly chucking vigilance on the MT after P2.5 is done, soaking vile spirits is easy as cake.

Of course one would probably say that it isn't exactly 'necessary' - but trust me, if there's anything to contribute to an easier, lax'd fight for the rest of the raid, it'd be that. Do keep in mind that yes, people can soak 1-2 spirits now-a-days, but back when we didn't have Hellscream Warsong, 1 spirit = death.

There are some other fights that really allow Vigilance to shine, for instance, LDW - as a warrior tank would know, their AoE tanking is probably not entirely the best.

With the introduction of Reforging, I am quite glad they actually did remove the threat% trans and replaced it with Vengeance - the reason for this is that, I personally hated putting Vigilance on other tanks, because it really just conflicted the idea of infinite taunt & threat gen from other the tank(and they also benefit from the +3% dmg reduction). But now with reforging, it is so easy to get hit/exp capped to the point where your TPS insane (0% miss with 0% chance of getting parried). I personally pull approx 20~40k depending on the situation; and with the support of tricks/MD, there is very little to no threat issue.

Overall, I wouldn't say the threat% for Vengeance is exactly a direct nerf, but I would agree that the removal of -3% dmg reduction will be. But who knows, that -3% dmg reduction will probably be taken out as some healer(s) will be given some kind of healing buff to compensate? Who knows, I haven't checked - Have you?

[Deleted]

Try thinking about LK P3 - I always volunteer myself to OT soak vile-spirits in P3, because Vigilance is absolutely gorgeous in that phase. Quickly chucking vigilance on the MT after P2.5 is done, soaking vile spirits is easy as cake.

Of course one would probably say that it isn't exactly 'necessary' - but trust me, if there's anything to contribute to an easier, lax'd fight for the rest of the raid, it'd be that. Do keep in mind that yes, people can soak 1-2 spirits now-a-days, but back when we didn't have Hellscream Warsong, 1 spirit = death.

There are some other fights that really allow Vigilance to shine, for instance, LDW - as a warrior tank would know, their AoE tanking is probably not entirely the best.

With the introduction of Reforging, I am quite glad they actually did remove the threat% trans and replaced it with Vengeance - the reason for this is that, I personally hated putting Vigilance on other tanks, because it really just conflicted the idea of infinite taunt & threat gen from other the tank(and they also benefit from the +3% dmg reduction). But now with reforging, it is so easy to get hit/exp capped to the point where your TPS insane (0% miss with 0% chance of getting parried). I personally pull approx 20~40k depending on the situation; and with the support of tricks/MD, there is very little to no threat issue.

Overall, I wouldn't say the threat% for Vengeance is exactly a direct nerf, but I would agree that the removal of -3% dmg reduction will be. But who knows, that -3% dmg reduction will probably be taken out as some healer(s) will be given some kind of healing buff to compensate? Who knows, I haven't checked - Have you?

Yeah definately, Vigilance was very strong at LK, I would've welcomed the 4.0.1 change even more if it came with ICC back in dec. I like the new model of Vigilance better. Vengeance is a very nice mechanic. I just wish it didn't decay -that- fast, or that Vigilance did it's job at keeping it up a lil' bit better.

[Deleted]

People who say Vigilance is useless now that it doesn't provide damage reduction need to L2P badly.

[Depth]

Hobbes, i agree.. its weaker now OKAY, but think about how much damage u can get for free if u put in on the right guy, talking aobut pvp and pve

[Deleted]

lets ask on beta forums to change it as a prot standard spell when speccing prot
its such a waste tallent point
dont get it why let it look so epic in the tallent three all alone special border (use spell) and require points into an other tallent

[Brutyx]

so why is it that blizzard is making me spec out of vig when 4.0.3 hit and a target doesnt even take reduced damage? seems almost worthless. can only see it being good during a fight that requires two tanks with hateful strikes or something....

Really? I love Vigilance. My 10 man group runs with 2 prot warriors and we just vigilance each other. It's actually really helpful for keeping vengeance up... and on some fights I've seen my AP get up to like 14K before, leading to some pretty amazing threat/damage. It also means we're free to taunt pretty much 100% of the time since the both of us are always getting hit. I don't see what other talent you'd get over vig that would really be worth it.

EDIT: Also, people need to stop qqing about Nerfs. Until I see a nerf that makes us signicantly worse than other classes with survivability (hasn't been the case) or unable to compete with threat (definitely not the case) I don't see what all the fuss is about. People need to stop focusing on tiny mundane details and start focusing on the bigger picture of threat/mitigation.

[Deleted]

Only thing that pisses me off about vigilance is that it only lasts 30mins and then I need to refresh it.

Would prefer it on an 1hour cd simply because refreshing it on my tanking buddy gets on my tits.

[Cracka_Bob]

if your not hit capped and raiding as a tank then there is something wrong

im not hit or expertise capped but thats mostly because i went for unhittable

OT: the nerf to vig does suck, but i will still be speccing into it to quickly build up my vengeance via the other tank (and since im unhittable, building vengeance up in this way is a huge benefit)

[halmotors]

Only thing that pisses me off about vigilance is that it only lasts 30mins and then I need to refresh it.

Would prefer it on an 1hour cd simply because refreshing it on my tanking buddy gets on my tits.

You poor thing. Life must be so difficult for you.