Why do people care about Thrall leaving?

[Azjenco]

Indeed, the Legion, the Old Gods, and the titans are the great over lying plot, the brooding destruction that overshadows the realm, and that is all great and enthralling. But, and I mean this as a major but, at the heart of it all is nations who don't get along, small alliances that fracture in an instant. The very mortal nature of a species is the self destructive pattern that all civilization inevitably boils down to. Inner turmoil, that is the heart of Warcraft. Not the next great evil to stomp on everyone, it's how the races deal with it, or rather squander amongst one another to deal with it.

If you have your reservations then think of this: Why are the Blizzard team so eager to return back to the old ways. Why send Thrall away and replace him with a warmonger, why build the prejudice of Wrynn to such an extent that war seems inevitable. The Southern Barrens is in open war, as is Ashenvale, as is Andorhal, and Gilneas, to name but a few.

Open war has finally arrived. Vanilla had its long wavering truce, TBC had Shattrath, and Wrath had the warfront against the Lich King, but now everything seems forgotten, mostly due to the likes of Hellscream and Wrynn. Legion or not, this is as much Orc vs Human as ever, and Blizzard is putting it on the forefront, as it should be.

[Phenomina]

I don't see the argument that Garrosh bring's War to Warcraft.. those who like to PvP will PvP wether Thrall or Garrosh or even Jaina is in charge of the factions. Do people really think they will que up for more battlegrounds now that Garrosh and not Thrall is warcheif?

If we need war we have like 100 different forces trying to destroy Azeroth aside from each other.

The people mostly interested are the people who like the lore and follow lore, they have been following the story of the Orc's redemption for 7 years led by Thrall to show honor, glory and power. Now with Garrosh they are basically being told the last 7 years is going down the toilet so as you can expect not to many people are thrilled about it.

Garrosh isn't really bringing back the " true " orc culture, I find the Frostwolf clan probably the best representative of how the Orc's really were and they are nothing like Garrosh's Orc's. Hence why Drek'thar who is one of the oldest and wisest Orc's told the Horde that if they roll with the Forsaken the Frostwolves are out.

That is the type of Orc I admire and respect for having honor.

[willjones410]

Open war has finally arrived. Vanilla had its long wavering truce, TBC had Shattrath, and Wrath had the warfront against the Lich King, but now everything seems forgotten, mostly due to the likes of Hellscream and Wrynn. Legion or not, this is as much Orc vs Human as ever, and Blizzard is putting it on the forefront, as it should be.

Anyone else find it funny that most of the NPC's who are part of this "open war" thing against the opposing faction are made to look like idiots? You have Garrosh and Varian at the top of the chain and those who think like they do coming after.

The orc commander who's "LOL Bomb!" almost kills innocents in Stonetalon?
The human lieutenant whose mentality for "kill'em all" in South Barrens leads to his commanding officer getting slain by pissed off tauren?
The "Winner" Herpdaderp Kor'kron during the Twilight Highlands opening for Horde?
The Alliance making idiots of themselves at Lost Isles?
Sylvanas being a total bitch in Gilneas and Silverpine Forest?

Makes me wonder if Blizzard is trying to tell us something....

Garrosh isn't really bringing back the " true " orc culture, I find the Frostwolf clan probably the best representative of how the Orc's really were and they are nothing like Garrosh's Orc's. Hence why Drek'thar who is one of the oldest and wisest Orc's told the Horde that if they roll with the Forsaken the Frostwolves are out.

That is the type of Orc I admire and respect for having honor.

Right. Does this mean you think that Frostwolves should stay in Alterac Valley now that they have been proven to be Good Orcs?

And BTW, I dig your new avatar!

[Braven]

Ugh same old "argument". I demand something original!

Personally I like Garrosh but there would be no new Horde without Thrall. Have some respect, mister

lore wise garrosh is going to get himself killed. He thinks he can lead the horde and be already called Sylvannis a bitch and told Vol'jin to "go back to the slums with the rest of your wretched race". Thats not a great way to make allies and it puts a big target on your and your races back. Alliance war junkies everywhere will be gunning for orgrimmar even more than they already do, just as Horde does the same to Stormwind. On top of that Thrall is the embodiment of epic: helped free the orcs, restored the honor of The Horde, brought back shamanism to the orcs, founded Orgrimmar, united the scattered orc clans, helped to retake Undercity, is the most powerful shaman alive and is the symbol of the New Horde. He could easily defeat Garrosh in a fight and personally I want the strongest leader as my warchief. But, thats just me...

On an unrelated note he may become a temporary Earth Aspect to replace Deathwing in Cataclysm

[Azjenco]

Garrosh is most probably not the spearhead of true orc culture, come to think of it most definitely not, but he is true orc warlord. Like he said to Thrall, he is uncertain if he could lead, as he is a warrior first and foremost. Why else would Thrall have elected him, for he saw in him the orc warrior spirit, and that is what's important to them.

And I'm not saying those leading the charge are smart, or superduper chaps. I'm saying they are furious and out for blood, and nothing else matters to those who stand behind them.

Thrall may have worked hard for seven years, but that's a bucket of sand in a trench. They suffered war, slaughter and racist bigotry for thirty years. I'm sorry but if some peace loving orc or a silly woman try to dictate my choices, knowing that my kin died in an orcish invasion, it wont mean crap. Like wise to the orcs, their homeland was invaded, and their brethren were thrown in cages. I wont care what who says, I'll hunger for retribution.

[Peroxide]

I don't see the argument that Garrosh bring's War to Warcraft.. those who like to PvP will PvP wether Thrall or Garrosh or even Jaina is in charge of the factions. Do people really think they will que up for more battlegrounds now that Garrosh and not Thrall is warcheif?

When we say a war between the Alliance and the Horde it goes beyond the PvP aspect, it becomes part of the PvE, where the environment happens to be the enemy's faction.

If we need war we have like 100 different forces trying to destroy Azeroth aside from each other.

Yes we do, and we're fighting those as well. I'm sorry but I don't understand why that is relevant?

The people mostly interested are the people who like the lore and follow lore, they have been following the story of the Orc's redemption for 7 years led by Thrall to show honor, glory and power. Now with Garrosh they are basically being told the last 7 years is going down the toilet so as you can expect not to many people are thrilled about it.

I've been playing the game since Warcraft 1. Since then Blizzard has worked hard to expand the game from a simple alien invasion of Orcs and Humans to the extremely complex and integrated world that it is today. The roots of this game are a conflict between Orcs and Humans, which has been expanded to the Horde vs. Alliance. As a lore buff myself, I find important that this conflict remains the center of the game. It's why I fell in love with this game in the first place. 1996 was the last time there was a war between the Horde and the Alliance of this size, when I was teenager. I absolutely love that Blizzard is revisiting this ancient conflict (as can be seen in the Swamp of Sorrows questline) and at the heart of it all are an Orc and a Human.

That is the type of Orc I admire and respect for having honor.

I completely agree. No contest. However, as much as I respect that Orc, I would rather have Garrosh in charge. Although he might be a hot headed war monger, he makes the game more fun and interesting for me. The moment this game is no longer fun for me, I will quit. That's at my point of view at least.

[Ihnasir]

It's called being a good leader, look at any other war-hungry leader and how we perceive them. Thrall was able to keep everything in check, Garrosh is going to derail the train that Thrall worked so hard to build. VOL'JIN FOR WARCHIEF

[Azjenco]

Come on! For crying out loud!

Why are so many people obsessed with Thrall 'being the good leader' or elect Anduin, cause he is such a 'level headed and swell guy'??? Honestly, who wants to play Warcraft and watch the two opposing factions make peace, hold hands, sing songs of joy, and love each other a whole huggy bunch? I rather want Garrosh and Varian at one another's throat, at least that way we can get to see orcs and pig skins slaughter the living crap out of each other. Now that is fun! And that sure is Warcraft. Who honestly wants Hippycraft to play some?

I love it that Thrall is stepping up and dealing with the major issues. That means the Horde can do what they do best. Flay some humans and deep fry the life out of them. That is the point most of us are trying to make. And it can still be part of the lore, it wont bring the end of story or ruin our perceptions of life as we know it. But it will surely make the game we make a far more interesting.

[Mithan]

I know this is some kind of lore issue for some people but really does it matter that much? The whole we need to kill alliance attitude Garrosh has is great! After all this game is called World of WARcraft. I was getting quite sick of the whole peace thing Thrall wanted.

The Garrosh change is only for the better, people crying saying they are leaving the horde cause of Garrosh go do it! The new Horde dont need pussys who never attacks alliance when they see them cause they want to be '' a good guy''.

Garrosh FTW!

Garrosh is only temporary. He will be gone soon enough.

[Phenomina]

Right. Does this mean you think that Frostwolves should stay in Alterac Valley now that they have been proven to be Good Orcs?

And BTW, I dig your new avatar!

Thanks

I would be open to letting the Frostwolves remain in Alterac Valley, because I have deemed them " good " Orc's

[luvlist]

Garrosh does not just want blood at any cost. He only wants the best for the Horde, while maintaining his honor.



I totally agree with you. Having read the Shattering puts a completely different view on Garrosh. A hothead, yes. A dirty figher, no.
Without spoiling things from the book, he puts honor and the horde in front of anything else.
I think Blizzard havn't quite managed to put his personality into the game properly...

So all Garrosh haters, go read the Shattering and then tell us how you see him.

Edit: But I'm still with Thrall

still think he's a douche,sorry

[Phenomina]

When we say a war between the Alliance and the Horde it goes beyond the PvP aspect, it becomes part of the PvE, where the environment happens to be the enemy's faction.

Fighting Horde doesn't seem to be PvE'ish at all, we have no Heroic Ogrimmar runs or anything like that, I want to fight lore figureheads if I'm going to consider it PvE ( I also don't count the city zergs either )

Yes we do, and we're fighting those as well. I'm sorry but I don't understand why that is relevant?

It's relevant to those who say that if Horde and Alliance reached a state of peace that there would be no war.. I am merely pointing out that we have a multitude of other more important bad guys who we need to worry about then wasting our efforts and resources killing each other. I understand it will never happen for gameplay reason's however.

I've been playing the game since Warcraft 1. Since then Blizzard has worked hard to expand the game from a simple alien invasion of Orcs and Humans to the extremely complex and integrated world that it is today. The roots of this game are a conflict between Orcs and Humans, which has been expanded to the Horde vs. Alliance. As a lore buff myself, I find important that this conflict remains the center of the game. It's why I fell in love with this game in the first place. 1996 was the last time there was a war between the Horde and the Alliance of this size, when I was teenager. I absolutely love that Blizzard is revisiting this ancient conflict (as can be seen in the Swamp of Sorrows questline) and at the heart of it all are an Orc and a Human.

That is all fine and good, however it almost negates Thrall's entire purpose with the Horde and everything lorewise that was built up by him and the influence he had on his people. What seperated Thrall's Orc's from LoTR Orc's were the fact they they had a sense of honor and with Thrall's guidence transcended the genre of the typical brutish and brainless Orc.

In a effort to re-ignite Orc and Human conflicts we see the state of the Orc's regressing back to that of your traditional blood thirsty Orc. Personally to me it doesn't matter much, I enjoy killing them. I do know a lot of people who love the Horde and the honor it stands for that don't like seeing there 7 years of tiem spnd and invested to watch there characters become barbarians again.

That being said.. some love it some hate it, each to there own I s'pose

I completely agree. No contest. However, as much as I respect that Orc, I would rather have Garrosh in charge. Although he might be a hot headed war monger, he makes the game more fun and interesting for me. The moment this game is no longer fun for me, I will quit. That's at my point of view at least.

If Garrosh makes the game fun for you, then Blizz is doing something right. To some these decisions are considered horribly wrong. Personally I think Garrosh is the Orc that represents everything that the Horde shouldn't be or become. I still however will relish and enjoy killing him

[Puntabletank]

I voted Thrall, Garrosh still has not taken to my liking, and I've watched videos of his preformance as warchief. I'd honestly rather keep Thrall, but at the same time I don't want to collide with Deepholme.

[Solaris]

Thrall is the Yin to Garrosh's Yang, so to speak.
Jaina is the Yin to Varain's Yang.

Thrall + Garrosh = Yin-Yang
Jaina + Varian = Yin-Yang

Yin-Yang - Thrall = Yang/Garrosh
Yin-Yang = Jaina/Yin + Varian/Yang

Yang =/= Yin-Yang

In other words the Horde and Alliance are now unbalanced which used to be one of my favorite aspects that they were equal in what they had.

TLDR; I like Thrall better

[Peroxide]

Fighting Horde doesn't seem to be PvE'ish at all, we have no Heroic Ogrimmar runs or anything like that, I want to fight lore figureheads if I'm going to consider it PvE ( I also don't count the city zergs either )

PvE isn't restricted to Raids and Dungeons.

It's relevant to those who say that if Horde and Alliance reached a state of peace that there would be no war.. I am merely pointing out that we have a multitude of other more important bad guys who we need to worry about then wasting our efforts and resources killing each other. I understand it will never happen for gameplay reason's however.

I agree, from a different person's perspective the war probably seems silly. I didn't say I agreed with the premise, but as a gamer I love it.

That is all fine and good, however it almost negates Thrall's entire purpose with the Horde and everything lorewise that was built up by him and the influence he had on his people. What seperated Thrall's Orc's from LoTR Orc's were the fact they they had a sense of honor and with Thrall's guidence transcended the genre of the typical brutish and brainless Orc.

"Thrall says: It ends like it began... All that we have fought for in this world is lost. The hopes and dreams carried by my father and mother... by Doomhammer... Gone... "
I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of "Thrall's Horde." Blizzard has a lot to weigh when they make their decisions, if this is the avenue that they want to expand into for now, I say at least give them a chance. Too many people are dismissive of this idea.

In a effort to re-ignite Orc and Human conflicts we see the state of the Orc's regressing back to that of your traditional blood thirsty Orc. Personally to me it doesn't matter much, I enjoy killing them. I do know a lot of people who love the Horde and the honor it stands for that don't like seeing there 7 years of tiem spnd and invested to watch there characters become barbarians again.

It's a different culture, saying they are barbarians is completely one sided. Not that I necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't use loaded words as barbarian to describe the current Horde. The Alliance in Cataclysm is by no means innocent in the fair. I'm Alliance as well, but I have no illusions about our leader's involvement.

That being said.. some love it some hate it, each to there own I s'pose

/thread

Hey by all means lodge your arrow, axe, sword, mace, or dagger firmly in that ugly little face of his. Or burn it, freeze it, blast, whatever you do...

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I know this is some kind of lore issue for some people but really does it matter that much? The whole we need to kill alliance attitude Garrosh has is great! After all this game is called World of WARcraft. I was getting quite sick of the whole peace thing Thrall wanted.

The Garrosh change is only for the better, people crying saying they are leaving the horde cause of Garrosh go do it! The new Horde dont need pussys who never attacks alliance when they see them cause they want to be '' a good guy''.

Garrosh FTW!

Seems like 80% of this site's community disagrees with yah, brah

[Azjenco]

That is all fine and good, however it almost negates Thrall's entire purpose with the Horde and everything lorewise that was built up by him and the influence he had on his people. What seperated Thrall's Orc's from LoTR Orc's were the fact they they had a sense of honor and with Thrall's guidence transcended the genre of the typical brutish and brainless Orc.

What? That makes no sense. How exactly does it negate everything Thrall has achieved. Garrosh is not exactly one of the infinite dragon flight, he isn't rewriting history as we know it, he's merely taking over the reigns as warchief. Sheesh, you give him too much credit.

In light of that, everything Thrall had done is still the there, the steps he took too establish alliance and piece will forever be written in stone. So, don't you think if it was to be then every orc who took up his view would stay his path unconquerable. Perhaps his views were an aberration to most and they were merely being led onward, I mean, who in their right mind would question Thrall. So in steps Garrosh with promise of war and suddenly their back in their roots, finally all this sitting around is at an end. Don't you think that is a possibility.

Or perhaps your average orc just doesn't care. 'What ever the flavor of the week provides, that is what we follow' kind of an attitude. "So Thrall says love and piece, alright boys pack it in, lets sit this one out. Wait, now Garrosh says blood and war, alright boys, pack it out, we are going back to war." Who knows.

P.S. Making change is not abolishing something. The previous thought of mind is still an established one, even if the currents take a new flow, what was before still is there, in whatever shape of form. If you think the last 7 years is moot and it angers you, then I shudder to think what tantrums you go through every time you move to a new home.

[Phenomina]

P.S. Making change is not abolishing something. The previous thought of mind is still an established one, even if the currents take a new flow, what was before still is there, in whatever shape of form. If you think the last 7 years is moot and it angers you, then I shudder to think what tantrums you go through every time you move to a new home.

If you re-read my post you will see that I don't really care what direction Garrosh takes the Horde, I feel bad for the Horde fans who are invested in the idea of a new Horde which has been building over 7 years to see it get train wrecked in a few shorts months.

What? That makes no sense. How exactly does it negate everything Thrall has achieved. Garrosh is not exactly one of the infinite dragon flight, he isn't rewriting history as we know it, he's merely taking over the reigns as warchief. Sheesh, you give him too much credit.

Thrall has worked for the peace and properity of his people, Garrosh is not promoting peace but rather submission of all races to the Horde. He isn't re-writing history, he is writing it with his actions. You give him too little credit.

In light of that, everything Thrall had done is still the there, the steps he took too establish alliance and piece will forever be written in stone. So, don't you think if it was to be then every orc who took up his view would stay his path unconquerable. Perhaps his views were an aberration to most and they were merely being led onward, I mean, who in their right mind would question Thrall. So in steps Garrosh with promise of war and suddenly their back in their roots, finally all this sitting around is at an end. Don't you think that is a possibility.

Garrosh is not taking them back to there roots. It's a much darker road, one I think they have travelled on before. If you want to see true Orc's observe the behaviors of the Frostwolves.

Or perhaps your average orc just doesn't care. 'What ever the flavor of the week provides, that is what we follow' kind of an attitude. "So Thrall says love and piece, alright boys pack it in, lets sit this one out. Wait, now Garrosh says blood and war, alright boys, pack it out, we are going back to war." Who knows.

Your average Orc should care... not too long ago they were prisoners with no will to live or carry on. Thrall returned that to them, and they are willing to toss that all away for Garrosh's war on a faction he knows little to nothing about?

Like I said to each there own, but the poll results would seem to support me on this one.

[Cannis866]

Garrosh of course, it is a nice change of pace from the same old thing over and over again

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Thrall is like George Washington, wise beyond his years and even his own time period. On top of that people just attach even more awesome to his story and thus his legend grows and he is revered to the point he is today.(although not to idolatry)

Garrosh is like George W. Bush. Incompetent beyond belief, belligerent short-sighted with no real goal for his people. less intelligent than the people who actually make his country work, and starts wars he can't finish. Not only bad but everyday people just unearth even more terrible that happened on his watch and attribute them to his legacy.

People often forget to clarify which perspective they are posting from. I'm guilty of it. Garrosh is horrible example of what a leader should be. Anyone who supports him will eventually come around to understanding why around the time their balls drop.

But from an out of character perspective he will undoubtedly stir up shit and at the very least escalate the existing Alliance/Horde conflicts.