Did Forsaken lore do a 180?

[Thetakedown]

The whole struggle of the Forsaken was breaking away from the Lich Kings grasp, and being undead that think for themselves and do what they want. But isn't Sylvanas, buy raising her enemies as scourge, removing their freedom and kind of going against everything she said? I really doubt a Gilneas solider (maybe even a Horde solider down the road) wants to join the Forsaken to kill his/her family...

Second question... Doesn't Tirion have a right now to go to war with the Forsaken? Lich King at least had Arthas fighting inside him which held the scourge from wiping out the world, but this bitch is a lose cannon.

And now an off topic point... Doesn't it seem Horde are getting the evil/nuts/derp leaders in Cata?
Sylvanas-see above
Gallywix-
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: You think you're such a bigshot, saving everyone and making friends with these orc savages?!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm going to crush you! I'm the Trade Prince! Me! I've got a plan that's going to get me off this island and make me the king of Azshara!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: Mark my words! I'm going to get you, <name>! I'll get you all! Out of my way!

Trade Prince Gallywix yells: Uncle! Uncle! I give! You guys are too much for me!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm beaten. You've shown me the error of my ways. From here on out, I promise to reform the way that the cartel is run!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm your goblin, Thrall. What would you have of me?
Thrall grunts and thinks a moment on what to do with the Trade prince.
Thrall yells: For now, you will remain the Trade Prince of the Bilgewater Cartel.
Thrall yells: I will send a representative from amongst your people to the new warchief, Garrosh Hellscream in Orgrimmar.
Thrall yells: You will have a new home in Azshara and the Bilgewater Cartel will be part of the Horde!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: It will be as you say! Long live the Bilgewater Cartel! For the Horde!
Lorthemar- I think everyone understands
Baine- The no lore leader who got captured by lvl 12 centaurs... But hey no lore means that he might be epic in the future right?
Garrosh- In all honesty hes getting better, but they ruined his model so now he even looks like a dumbass

Vol'jin- The beacon of hope.

[Snebbles]

I got the "freedom" vibe from the Forsaken earlier. I felt that they were the former soldiers of Lordaeron who hated the scourge for doing that it did to them. I didn't think they would be hypocritical about it.


Yes, Forsaken are scourge 2.0 now, except without all the cool stuff like frost wyrms and obsidian destroyers and crypt lords.

[TheMorale]

I got the "freedom" vibe from the Forsaken earlier. I felt that they were the former soldiers of Lordaeron who hated the scourge for doing that it did to them. I didn't think they would be hypocritical about it.


Yes, Forsaken are scourge 2.0 now, except without all the cool stuff like frost wyrms and obsidian destroyers and crypt lords.

Yet.

[Deleted]

1. I am not sure that they are removed of their freedom as Lilian Voss runs off and so does Marshal Redpath after becoming part of the new forsaken. I am not sure why they become so disloyal though, once they become undead but personally I would be pretty greatful for being bought back to life.
2. Tiron has no right IMO because the Forsaken are no bigger threat than they were before and are not "evil" so to speak.

3. Sylvanas is batshit insane but is still totally bad ass
4. Galywix is a tw@ but he is still pretty awesome and represents the goblin race as a whole quite well

[helleros]

Baine- The no lore leader who got captured by lvl 12 centaurs... But hey no lore means that he might be epic in the future right?
Garrosh- In all honesty hes getting better, but they ruined his model so now he even looks like a dumbass

hmm guess u aint read the shattering then
baine is and and will be just as awesome as cairne and garrosh in the shattering changed my opinion of him imo

[Thetakedown]

1. I am not sure that they are removed of their freedom as Lilian Voss runs off and so does Marshal Redpath after becoming part of the new forsaken. I am not sure why they become so disloyal though, once they become undead but personally I would be pretty greatful for being bought back to life.
2. Tiron has no right IMO because the Forsaken are no bigger threat than they were before and are not "evil" so to speak.

3. Sylvanas is batshit insane but is still totally bad ass
4. Galywix is a tw@ but he is still pretty awesome and represents the goblin race as a whole quite well

I guess that's the positive way of looking at it. I just feel that Horde epic lore is dead. Now all the bad ass leader/events are Alliance centered, and horde is just that little semi evil faction that no one pays any attention to. Saurfang for Warchief anyone?

edit: For example the WoW movie is Alliance with some Horde sprinkled in. GMs went Alliance i guess

---------- Post added 2010-11-19 at 11:42 AM ----------

hmm guess u aint read the shattering then
baine is and and will be just as awesome as cairne and garrosh in the shattering changed my opinion of him imo

Na i just read parts of it.

[Combatbutler]

The Forsaken lost their purpose after the lich king died but they still remained and they thought, well what now. They came to the conclusion now that the lich king is dead we can chill in lordaeron and live like before but their numbers were dwindling and garrosh ordered them to attack gilneas and since they owe the orcs they did.

That invasion again was costly so Sylvanas got herself some valkyr in order to ensure the survival of the forsaken people but in doing so she goes against everything she once preached.(but as a leader it is her responsibility to ensure the survival of her people no matter what). And the forsaken came to accept themselves they are no longer emo and hide in ruins no they started rebuilding everything in their own style and have quotes like in death we are reborn.

And Gallywix is just the perfect example of the Goblin race, because goblins have just one loyalty and that is money everything else comes second

[helleros]

i would suggest if u have the copy of the shattering u read it all if u only read parts u wont get some of the lore in it

it changed my mind about a fair few of the charicters mainly garrosh and anduin wrynn who in my opinion would make a better alliance leader then Varian ever was...

[Combatbutler]

I guess that's the positive way of looking at it. I just feel that Horde epic lore is dead. Now all the bad ass leader/events are Alliance centered, and horde is just that little semi evil faction that no one pays any attention to. Saurfang for Warchief anyone?

edit: For example the WoW movie is Alliance with some Horde sprinkled in. GMs went Alliance i guess [COLOR="red"]

Thats nothing new lore tends to favor Alliance most books are from their perspective

[Thetakedown]

i would suggest if u have the copy of the shattering u read it all if u only read parts u wont get some of the lore in it

it changed my mind about a fair few of the charicters mainly garrosh and anduin wrynn who in my opinion would make a better alliance leader then Varian ever was...

Ok ill make sure to finish it. What i read about Anduin... He is just another pacifist, like Jaina. Pacifist just take the middle road and nothing gets done, plus this game would be very boring haha. Anduin right now when he grows up will be the human version of Thrall, problem with that is a lot of Horde in lore saw Thrall as weak for being so recessive ion conflicts.

Edit: Another thing that i noticed is that Forsaken are portrayed as Nazis in Cata. With their Blitzkrieg of Gilneas capital and with Greymane's british WW2 speech.

[Deleted]

hmm guess u aint read the shattering then
baine is and and will be just as awesome as cairne and garrosh in the shattering changed my opinion of him imo

I just finished reading the shattering yesterday,

and I noticed something.

But yeah, I don't see any reason to 'kill off' Cairne, and it was pretty reckless of him to do it, it was also a bad call of Garrosh to finish him off, despite the whole 'to the death'.

I'm kinda hoping someone will usurp Sylvanas, since she's getting worse and worse. I think their lore is pretty coherant, they started out as a ragtag bunch of people with no home or ideal's, and now a loot crazed dictator with a lust for power is in charge.

What they should have done is have some rebellion in the elves to oust that leader guy.

[Snebbles]

And Gallywix is just the perfect example of the Goblin race, because goblins have just one loyalty and that is money everything else comes second

Sort of, Gazlowe is an example of a more trustworthy Goblin, I don't think he's ever done anything against the Horde for money.

Then again I don't know if the Alliance ever tried paying him to do so.

Seeing everything they've done on the PTR, all the immensely evil stuff, and knowing they openly defied Garrosh, there is no hope left for them, they need to be destroyed, they just need to be wiped off the planet.

I suppose in order to keep them as a player race, Sylvanas needs to be killed and they need a more passive leader. I don't know of any proper candidates though.

Lilian Voss just sort of disappears after a few quests and is never heard from again.

Bolvar is doing his..thing.

Nathanos? Eh he's the hunter trainer now.

[helleros]

basicly what will happon now is we will go from what we had which was thrall a peacewanting orc vs varian a warmonger (typo lol ) to what we have now garrosh a warmonger vs varian a warmonger to what we will have in the future garrash a warmonger vs anduin wrynn a peace lover so basicly to sum up the roles will eventually be reversed

[Thetakedown]

basicly what will happon now is we will go from what we had which was thrall a peacewanting orc vs varian a warmonger (typo lol ) to what we have now garrosh a warmonger vs varian a warmonger to what we will have in the future garrash a warmonger vs anduin wrynn a peace lover so basicly to sum up the roles will eventually be reversed

To be honest, Blizz spent to much money into developing Varians character. I would be surprised if they kill him off.

Also about the goblins. Thats my point though, the Horde has degenerated to have races that can be bought to go against them. Kind of also goes against the old Horde term of "sticking together".

[Doombringer]

Baine is also a beacon of hope for the Horde. He is very much like his father. Read The Shattering.

On the topic of the Forsaken... I want to say they're positioning Sylvanas for replacement (maybe by Voss, or Koltira). However, Sylvanas also prominently factors into the new (Cataclysm) Forsaken starting area(s)... would they go through all this effort if they are planning to replace her?

[Combatbutler]

Sort of, Gazlowe is an example of a more trustworthy Goblin, I don't think he's ever done anything against the Horde for money.

Then again I don't know if the Alliance ever tried paying him to do so.





I suppose in order to keep them as a player race, Sylvanas needs to be killed and they need a more passive leader. I don't know of any proper candidates though.

Lilian Voss just sort of disappears after a few quests and is never heard from again.

Bolvar is doing his..thing.

Nathanos? Eh he's the hunter trainer now.

If you pay Gazlowe enough i am sure he will sell the horde out after all he is neutral


And killing Sylvanas you could do that but the next Forsaken won't be any better I am sure he will be worse. Sylvanas does questionable things but out of the forsaken perspective it is necessary. She shows mercy from time to time for example she could have killed lorna Crowley instead she allowed her to leave with her father

[NitrOxide]

Practically, if we're to consider the forsaken as beings in the long-term, they're a faction thats doomed for conflict.

They'll never fully socialize themselves into common culture, their immortality and 'plight' means that the vast majority of them are susceptible to counter-culture and mental break-downs and are, literally, 'scourge' of the standing religious belief and social norms.

As a game, the forsaken will always be a playable race that belongs to the horde. But in the lore (WoW will obviously never integrate this into the ingame), the forsaken will be entered into a conflict that will involve exodus and the eventual exile, if not outright eradication, of their kind.

The sociology of the forsaken, from mentalities and overall mental health from a longterm perspective is not healthy and I doubt most of them have the mental 'prowess' to uplift themselves and bring themselves to more omnipresent ways of thinking as the other immortal races have.(naaru, titans, etc)

Point being, there's too much trauma, they're too 'human' in their emotions and are prone to self-destruction because of the reckless attitudes they still possess as a result of their recent history. It would take centuries for them, as a people, to reach the 'impasse' from which they shed all ideologies of the past and situate themselves in a eternal presence.

There just isn't enough time, their ambitions too aggressive and the other races/factions too impatient to give the console/time needed to see the forsaken through their 'depression'.

[Peroxide]

hey need to be destroyed, they just need to be wiped off the planet.

Let me know how that works out for you alright?

I think I might be the only person in this game that used to despise the Forsaken, and now loves them because of their most recent ruthless approach. Their tactics have not changed in the least, but the combination of their increased ass kicking ability and the fact that the Lich King has died makes some people think they should either 1) Start handing out daises or 2) Roll over and die.

It doesn't work like that.

[Zaelsino]

The Forsaken's outlook has simply changed now. Nice bit of dialogue from a Deathguard in the new Tirisfal-

"Speaking frankly, the Forsaken of yesteryear were a sniveling, pathetic group. We huddled together in decrepid old human buildings, hiding from the Scourge, cowering from the Alliance, and grovelling at the foot of the Horde.

Look before you now, and see the product of the new Forsaken. We have made our mark here on Azeroth, and that mark will grow. Our dominion will soon blanket the world."

Something had to change, without the Lich King the entire race had no direction. This is simply what they're rolling with now.

[Deleted]

2. Tiron has no right IMO because the Forsaken are no bigger threat than they were before and are not "evil" so to speak.

theyre making hillsbrad into "Southern Plaguelands", theyve killed all of the residents in southshore and hillsbrad, sylvanas is continuing with the plague even after garrosh banned it, she kidnaps a death knight to find out how to make more, she's using valkyr to boost her undead army, and unlike arthas where they were killing to bolster the scourge, her plague seems to just melt people into goo, and it affects undead as well , so it's more than likely she wants to just destroy the world.

that seems a liiiiitle dangerous to me...
don't forget, forsaken are still rotting, just not as fast as they should be, their version of "old age" is "slowly losing your mind and becoming a brain eating zombie"

I wonder if sylvanas will suffer death by "dissolved by plague"?

---------- Post added 2010-11-19 at 05:13 PM ----------

If you pay Gazlowe enough i am sure he will sell the horde out after all he is neutral


And killing Sylvanas you could do that but the next Forsaken won't be any better I am sure he will be worse. Sylvanas does questionable things but out of the forsaken perspective it is necessary. She shows mercy from time to time for example she could have killed lorna Crowley instead she allowed her to leave with her father

koltira could be a good candidate... or even darion morgraine