Ele/enh/resto triple shaman 3v3 team

[Deleted]

Hey there fellow shaman theory crafters

Me and two friends both have shamans as our mains. I cataclysm we are thinking alot about going triple shaman, three different speccs for 3v3.
We have discussed it back and forth, and found it very interesting, like what is good, and what is bad, and how we can help each others.
I would like some pros and cons about this, and give some of mine own. We are especially in for some trouble about specc's and such.
Feel free to give feedback, but in a constructive way. Here are some of my pros and cons: (I ofc have more)

Pros:
Casters: Casters are pretty much worthless against us, as we see it. 3 windshears, 3 groundings, roots to keep them so I (the enh shaman) can get free damage.
And most of the caster cc's can be dispelled by our resto shaman.
Hex: With the new, every caster can dispell magic, there are much fewer able to dispell hex. If managed properly, it could work fine.
Earthen power: If you don't know, this talent removes all kind of slowing effects every earthbind totem pulse, which is really good for our healer shaman if go'ed by melee, which I think will be the hardest against us.
Purge: In 1 gcd, we can actually dispell 6 magical buffs instantly, which makes druid and priest healers, much more less effective

Cons:
Melee: Melee could be a problem as stated above, especially when going for the resto shaman. I hope, a enhancement shaman would be able to take a 1on1 up with various melee, without getting ripped apart
Stuns on resto: We think this will be our main problem. Because this is the only CC where the resto can't do much. The ele shaman and me, must try our best keeping him alive, by cc'ing, and offhealing and such.
Shields: Earthshield overlapping shields of the ele and enhancement shaman may be a problem, we will see

We think this 3v3 could be very fun, and we also like playing strange setups, instead of some of the no brainer build, where you know the combo will work, not meaning they are easy, but just a change. Also, that most likely not many others will be going this build, and teams will maybe be a bit confused of how to play against the setup, because its uncommon.

-kolopiolo

[Omnus]

The glaring weakness would be the fact that you have one loss of control CC: hex (and then the little wolf stun, so I guess 1.5). This makes the comp pretty awful because with a fear, stun, incapacitate, etc. you could set up better CC chains and almost every comp you face will have better CC than you.

[Stormcleave]

There are some issues with this. There certainly are some strengths as you have pointed out but from a Shaman's perspective I see some major weaknesses. Enhance damage is very poor. Our burst is almost non existant w/o 5 searing stacks. Good teams will never let you build 5 stacks in Arena. Enhancement damage at 85 looks about the same as it does on live. Not trying to QQ but Blizzard has some kind of issue with Enhance and refuses to give the spec damage above piss poor. So, Enhance is a purgebot for a much stronger DPS class like Wotlk.

Warrior damage and burst is just insane atm at 85. Warriors bring damage far beyond that of an Enhancement shaman. The same for DKs. So, if you bring an Enhancement shaman please realize you are bringing the worst DPS spec in the game that offers a little burst between spamming Purge.

Another problem is that Frost Mages make Ele pointless. Frost Mages no longer have a single weakness. In Wotlk Frost was a very strong spec that lacked serious damage and burst that isnt an isue in Cata. Frost Mages are just ten times better than any other caster and any other DPS.

Resto Shamans are the 3rd best healer and they will oom much faster than Holy Paladins and Resto Druids. a 3v3 All Shaman team sounds fun but you really break it all down it isnt a solid team because Shamans arent very strong specs, they are mostly middle of the road. So, your team will be facing very powerful spec combinations giving you an uphill battle right out of the gate.

Shamans arent like Mages and Warriors. Shamans need stronger specs that can carry Shaman because the class has glaring weaknesses not existant in other classes. Ele does much better with a class or spec that can carry them and allow Ele to blow stuff up w/o being trained. Frost Mages did this in Wotlk as did Destro locks with fears and AoE stuns. With an all Shaman team there is no strong spec or class to use as a crutch. Enhance used BM massive burst to lean on as Enhance purged off shields and buffs opening people up to near instant death.

[Omnus]

There are some issues with this. There certainly are some strengths as you have pointed out but from a Shaman's perspective I see some major weaknesses. Enhance damage is very poor. Our burst is almost non existant w/o 5 searing stacks. Good teams will never let you build 5 stacks in Arena. Enhancement damage at 85 looks about the same as it does on live. Not trying to QQ but Blizzard has some kind of issue with Enhance and refuses to give the spec damage above piss poor. So, Enhance is a purgebot for a much stronger DPS class like Wotlk.

Warrior damage and burst is just insane atm at 85. Warriors bring damage far beyond that of an Enhancement shaman. The same for DKs. So, if you bring an Enhancement shaman please realize you are bringing the worst DPS spec in the game that offers a little burst between spamming Purge.

Another problem is that Frost Mages make Ele pointless. Frost Mages no longer have a single weakness. In Wotlk Frost was a very strong spec that lacked serious damage and burst that isnt an isue in Cata. Frost Mages are just ten times better than any other caster and any other DPS.

Resto Shamans are the 3rd best healer and they will oom much faster than Holy Paladins and Resto Druids. a 3v3 All Shaman team sounds fun but you really break it all down it isnt a solid team because Shamans arent very strong specs, they are mostly middle of the road. So, your team will be facing very powerful spec combinations giving you an uphill battle right out of the gate.

Shamans arent like Mages and Warriors. Shamans need stronger specs that can carry Shaman because the class has glaring weaknesses not existant in other classes. Ele does much better with a class or spec that can carry them and allow Ele to blow stuff up w/o being trained. Frost Mages did this in Wotlk as did Destro locks with fears and AoE stuns. With an all Shaman team there is no strong spec or class to use as a crutch. Enhance used BM massive burst to lean on as Enhance purged off shields and buffs opening people up to near instant death.

You are making some pretty gross generalizations here. Frost mages are powerful, but that doesn't make every other caster worthless. You can still be great and get great results as an ele shaman, warlock, etc. Also where is this mystical rating where Shamans are the "3rd best healer"...that's ridiculous, there's no way to systematically rate 5 healing specs, there are too many variables involved.

[Deleted]

The glaring weakness would be the fact that you have one loss of control CC: hex (and then the little wolf stun, so I guess 1.5). This makes the comp pretty awful because with a fear, stun, incapacitate, etc. you could set up better CC chains and almost every comp you face will have better CC than you.

Yeah we see that, but as of fear, we have tremor, it should be removed instantly, most stuns can be dispelled expect rogue and warrior. And we also have roots, and immense slow. With the new Unleash Elements, enha can slow with 75%, more than rogues. So, yeah, i see the problem with the healer bieng cc'ed, but else we can nearly remove every cc on me (enha) and the elemental shaman.

[Omnus]

Yeah we see that, but as of fear, we have tremor, it should be removed instantly, most stuns can be dispelled expect rogue and warrior. And we also have roots, and immense slow. With the new Unleash Elements, enha can slow with 75%, more than rogues. So, yeah, i see the problem with the healer bieng cc'ed, but else we can nearly remove every cc on me (enha) and the elemental shaman.

That is true, and Resto shamans can heal quite well even when dispelling. I'm not saying its not worth a shot, and you might catch a few groups off guard at the beginning. But once you get to good groups that stack those CCs on the Resto shaman its going to be an uphill battle.

[Deleted]

There are some issues with this. There certainly are some strengths as you have pointed out but from a Shaman's perspective I see some major weaknesses. Enhance damage is very poor. Our burst is almost non existant w/o 5 searing stacks. Good teams will never let you build 5 stacks in Arena. Enhancement damage at 85 looks about the same as it does on live. Not trying to QQ but Blizzard has some kind of issue with Enhance and refuses to give the spec damage above piss poor. So, Enhance is a purgebot for a much stronger DPS class like Wotlk.

Warrior damage and burst is just insane atm at 85. Warriors bring damage far beyond that of an Enhancement shaman. The same for DKs. So, if you bring an Enhancement shaman please realize you are bringing the worst DPS spec in the game that offers a little burst between spamming Purge.

Another problem is that Frost Mages make Ele pointless. Frost Mages no longer have a single weakness. In Wotlk Frost was a very strong spec that lacked serious damage and burst that isnt an isue in Cata. Frost Mages are just ten times better than any other caster and any other DPS.

Resto Shamans are the 3rd best healer and they will oom much faster than Holy Paladins and Resto Druids. a 3v3 All Shaman team sounds fun but you really break it all down it isnt a solid team because Shamans arent very strong specs, they are mostly middle of the road. So, your team will be facing very powerful spec combinations giving you an uphill battle right out of the gate.

Shamans arent like Mages and Warriors. Shamans need stronger specs that can carry Shaman because the class has glaring weaknesses not existant in other classes. Ele does much better with a class or spec that can carry them and allow Ele to blow stuff up w/o being trained. Frost Mages did this in Wotlk as did Destro locks with fears and AoE stuns. With an all Shaman team there is no strong spec or class to use as a crutch. Enhance used BM massive burst to lean on as Enhance purged off shields and buffs opening people up to near instant death.

I feel like this sounds like some balancing problems. This clearly can't go to the "real" cataclysm, blizzard won't let that happen. Else, its f**ked

---------- Post added 2010-11-26 at 11:28 PM ----------

That is true, and Resto shamans can heal quite well even when dispelling. I'm not saying its not worth a shot, and you might catch a few groups off guard at the beginning. But once you get to good groups that stack those CCs on the Resto shaman its going to be an uphill battle.

yep i feel you there, the problem with the healer being cc'ed might be a problem. Then we will need to play defensive, counter cc, heal each other, place good thunderstorms, roots, and such. THIS will be the most difficult in our setup.

[Stormcleave]

Also where is this mystical rating where Shamans are the "3rd best healer".

Visit Arena junkies once in a while, it helps. You can expect pretty solid opinions from the top PvPers in the game.

---------- Post added 2010-11-26 at 11:42 PM ----------

I feel like this sounds like some balancing problems. This clearly can't go to the "real" cataclysm, blizzard won't let that happen. Else, its f**ked[COLOR="red"]

Well, lets be honest, balance is never very high on the list of things to do for Blizzard. Watch a Warrior beta lvl 85 video and then watch a lvl 85 Enhancement video. Both can be found on Arenajunkies.com or Warcraftmovies.com. Enhancement damage looks terrible. I actually do more damage on live. The only burst Enhance has is 5 stack searing, GL stacking that on a team w/mics and an ounce of communication. Warrior damage looks insane.

On live my Enhancement hits for around 6-8k, Enhance at 85 hits for around 6-8k outside 5 stack Lava lashes which can hit for 18k but if you play ENhance you know how hard it is to find a team bad enough to leave their team mate stcaked with searing flame debuff.

Warriors on the other hand will drop 20k, 20k, 15k, 20k back to back to back like nothing in beta. Enhance hits look like 4k, 4k, 8k, 6k. Do the math when compared with a Warrior.


Same when comparing Frost mages to Ele. Its not even comparable really.

[Deleted]

Visit Arena junkies once in a while, it helps. You can expect pretty solid opinions from the top PvPers in the game.

---------- Post added 2010-11-26 at 11:42 PM ----------



Well, lets be honest, balance is never very high on the list of things to do for Blizzard. Watch a Warrior beta lvl 85 video and then watch a lvl 85 Enhancement video. Both can be found on Arenajunkies.com or Warcraftmovies.com. Enhancement damage looks terrible. I actually do more damage on live. The only burst Enhance has is 5 stack searing, GL stacking that on a team w/mics and an ounce of communication. Warrior damage looks insane.

On live my Enhancement hits for around 6-8k, Enhance at 85 hits for around 6-8k outside 5 stack Lava lashes which can hit for 18k but if you play ENhance you know how hard it is to find a team bad enough to leave their team mate stcaked with searing flame debuff.

Warriors on the other hand will drop 20k, 20k, 15k, 20k back to back to back like nothing in beta. Enhance hits look like 4k, 4k, 8k, 6k. Do the math when compared with a Warrior.


Same when comparing Frost mages to Ele. Its not even comparable really.

Well, that would just be dumb. And as of now, you can't compare to beta. There was an overall buff, so warriors on live were viable. They now nerfed them for around 40% i saw some theory crafters writing. So I think the damage will even out, else I we need to find some others things to rely on, like the enha shaman, doing the cc'ing, making gaps, keeping control and getting maximum damage out of the ele shaman, while still doing damage as enha ofc.

[Stormcleave]

Well, that would just be dumb. And as of now, you can't compare to beta. There was an overall buff, so warriors on live were viable. They now nerfed them for around 40% i saw some theory crafters writing. So I think the damage will even out, else I we need to find some others things to rely on, like the enha shaman, doing the cc'ing, making gaps, keeping control and getting maximum damage out of the ele shaman, while still doing damage as enha ofc.

Dont get me wrong. This comp or any comp can be viable in the right hands. Timing, team work and practice makes perfect. I have run a few comps that were oddballs and we did rather well until around 2k. Enhance is strong because it is the only class that can dispel spam. The downside is that ENhancement shamans loathe being purgebots.

I think it's worth running but in the end you will be lacking in some key areas. One area is a spammable CC to force trinkets. Case in point, I love to charge and fear bomb on my warrior. Most healers will trinket this fear because we unload all our CDs on a DPS forcing him to trinket early. We camp him and instantly CC him again when he trinkets. If you use Hex for this, it will DR quickly.

I would love to see a 3v3 Shaman team tbh. I will be in your corner rooting you oN!

[Deleted]

Sounds fun, but you won't get very high in ratings

[Omnus]

Visit Arena junkies once in a while, it helps. You can expect pretty solid opinions from the top PvPers in the game.

I read AJ quite often. As I said: "there's no way to systematically rate 5 healing specs, there are too many variables involved".