Call me an entitled casual all you want

[Dragonwing]

But I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed WotLK, just as I enjoyed Burning Crusade.

I enjoyed the epic questing storylines, the breathtaking zone environments (and no, it was NOT all just snow), and the fantastic soundtrack. I enjoyed seeing the Yogg Saron/ Ulduar story unfold through the zones, the war against the Scourge as well as many other great chains, such as the Frenzyheart/Oracle quests.

I enjoyed leveling 70-80. Rather then the "I can't wait till i get to 70" feeling i got all too many times in Outland, I felt the "I cant wait untill I get to do X quest in this zone" many, many times.

I enjoyed the 5 mans, even though they were very quickly overgeared and made very easy. They tie in well with the zones they are in, and have stunning scenery and art.

I enjoyed seeing Naxxramas again, as it was one of my favourite raids and I had never got the chance to raid it at level 60. I liked Sartharion and his hard modes, and I definitely enjoyed Malygos a great deal.

I (obviously) enjoyed Ulduar. Just a 10/10 perfect instance, nothing else to say.

While there is a lot of bad feedback for this, and i agree with some of it, ToC had good aspects. It had very cool boss mechanics, such as Twin Valkyr light and dark essence. But, there were many flaws to this instance, namely it being too short to be sufficient for an entire raid tier, limited attempts and gating, as well as the hardmode separate lockouts. That doesnt mean I never had fun in this instance.

Icecrown Citadel was definitely a favourite, even though there were a few dissapointments. Not as good as Ulduar, but still a great instance. Excellent boss mechanics, and a very epic ending to the Lich King fight, a very well designed fight in general.

There are people on this forums who behave like NO ONE enjoyed WotLK, that EVERYONE who liked it was an 'entitled casual whiner'. Seems to me that it is these so called 'harcore' players are the ones whining here (I say So Called for a reason). Ive seen many people overly nostalgic and overly pessimistic. Personally, I have been accused of being a 'wrath baby', even though I started in Vanilla wow. I hear people saying "200 of my friends quit!" (yes, i did in fact read a forum thread where the OP said this), I hear people saying "I quit 17 times after killed Heroic Lich King, Sartharion 3 Drake, Malygos, heartbreaker XT-002, firefighter Mimiron, Yogg+0. heroic Putricide, heroic Sindragosa, heroic Anub' Arak, heroic Halion etc on the first attempt and so did all other 12 million players and that is why 8 million quit!". I've seen people say stuff like "No one complained in BC, in Vanilla it was all rainbows and happiness and in WotLK it was Activision aiming guns to our heads forcing us to raid ToC 4 times a week, forcing us to do endless Alt raids etc". I've heard people say the questing was bad (I really cannot see how anyone can think this, compared to Burning Crusade". Ive seen the dumbest exaggerations, the most idiotic hypocrites and frankly, the most elitist scum of the earth on these forums and the WoW official forums in the past few years (certain treasures like the mount guy come into mind when writing this).

In particular, I would like to talk about a certain WoW podcast maker. Someone who is under the impression that he is a hardcore raider. Someone who is under the impression that he is obliged to hate every aspect of Wrath, yet act like the past WoW years were perfect. Someone who refers to Casual players as the minority. Someone who presumes himself as intellectually superior to all other people. Someone who complains about level 1-5 zones being too easy. Someone who labels just about anyone an "entitled casual whiner" if you disagree with his comments. You are constantly reminded that it is meant to be a criticism podcast, and it is good for the game, but if you criticize the podcast, you are told to not tell him how to run his show and to stop whining, before you are banned from the youtube channel and from the website. This person made a Podcast recently, asking everyone to send in their BAD memories about the expansion. Apparently, no one had any GOOD memories, so we are to only send in bad memories to help back up his 'criticism'. The criticism, by the way, is mostly "this is terrible, blizzard failed, that is terrible, blizzard failed, x whined about y so y was nerfed, oh look i wiped 10 times in a 5 man, how fantastic, oh wait we one shot the boss on normal mode, Cataclysm fails as bad as WotLK". I think we all know who this special someone is.

Heres a tip, people, no matter how long you go on about wrath babies, content being too easy (i beg to differ, the lich king took longer to down than the first 3 sunwell bosses. on NORMAL mode), no matter how much you exaggerate and whine and troll and everything else, you will not change the fact that a large number of us enjoyed the expansion. You've heard about the "vocal minority" and the "silent majority". That concept applies here.

Signed, Dragonwing. A (nearly) veteran player, who enjoyed WotLK, and is not afraid to admit it to the very vocal minority on the forums.

[cookiesncreme]

What is the point of this?

[Deleted]

there was a thread on mmo, including a poll with the result that most of players liked wotlk?!

[Garnik]

What is the point of this?

I have to agreed with ^this. Its just yet another "I loved WotLK, what are you gonna do about it?" threads, which we have seen so many times. At this point its nothing but flamebaiting.

[Logiic]

I have to agreed. Its just yet another "I loved WotLK, what are you gonna do about it?" threads, which we have seen so many times. At this point its nothing but flamebaiting.

Idk but i think his point is that people make pointless threads like he just did

[Dragonwing]

there was a thread on mmo, including a poll with the result that most of players liked wotlk?!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-done-Blizzard.

This isnt "200 of my friends quit!". This is 500 people voting on a non biased poll.

---------- Post added 2010-12-06 at 10:56 AM ----------

I have to agreed with ^this. Its just yet another "I loved WotLK, what are you gonna do about it?" threads, which we have seen so many times. At this point its nothing but flamebaiting.

The point of this, mainly, is how I felt about the whole expansion, versus the podcast mentioned, which i honestly find laughable.

[EntropyJim]

Fairly obvious who you mean tbh. I listen to his show every week. A little history: I started playing in TBC and agree with some of his thoughts but not all of them. Wrath's questing was really good. The first couple of months of doing instances was great fun. I managed to kill LK in the end and all but Sindy and LK on heroic (our guild went to sleep over the summer). Even so, you have to admit if you're running instances now, even levelling up, you see a wealth of entitled idiots who don't understand how to play their classes and don't care. If you try and help you just get shouted at and kicked.

What you seem to be forgetting however, is that his podcast is meant to be entertainment. I find it funny, and at times inciteful. If you don't like it STOP LISTENING. Really.

J.

[Damascus]

I wholeheartedly support this post. And to those asking "what's the point?", the point is that people like the OP (I think I could include myself in this group) become tired of seeing a tidal wave of negativity towards Wrath/Cata etc on the forums.

He wanted to give a voice to the 'silent majority' as the OP aptly puts it. Will it make a difference or change anything? Not likely. It's a matter of principle, a shield for the game that many of us have come to love and enjoy over the years (also a player since Vanilla, although I was very much a noob then and never raided.)

People are entitled to their own opinions, but when it becomes the blatant trash that these people try to pass off as 'constructive criticism', there needs to be a line drawn.

Edit: I don't listen to the podcast he mentioned, so I can't comment on it. I'm more referring this

The criticism, by the way, is mostly "this is terrible, blizzard failed, that is terrible, blizzard failed, x whined about y so y was nerfed, oh look i wiped 10 times in a 5 man, how fantastic, oh wait we one shot the boss on normal mode, Cataclysm fails as bad as WotLK"

I see far too many threads to this effect.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think the entirety of the OP's comments are pointed specifically at the host of said podcast-- I would like to think they're more directed at this kind of attitude in general and that he just used this podcaster as one such example.

[Dragonwing]

Even so, you have to admit if you're running instances now, even levelling up, you see a wealth of entitled idiots who don't understand how to play their classes and don't care. If you try and help you just get shouted at and kicked.

Yes. They are certainly a very unwanted bunch of people, but I think the problem is, people act like this type of player came into existance in WotLK. They most certainly did exist in WotLK, but they also did in Burning Crusade, and ESPECIALLY in Vanilla.

What you seem to be forgetting however, is that his podcast is meant to be entertainment. I find it funny, and at times inciteful. If you don't like it STOP LISTENING. Really.

But look at the TRH video. We are constantly reminded that "its just a joke, quit QQing", but it definitely inspired players into doing more stupid things than any 'entitled wrath baby' ever did. One of the resident cool kids on my server was bragging about how he would never invite someone to his raid who had the Celestial steed. I made it clear to him why i think such a decision is stupid (apparently, if you don't like the look of a vanity item, anyone with said vanity item is a moron?) and he didnt speak more of it. His podcast is not meant to be entertainment, it is not meant to be funny. He clearly means it to be a critical podcast, and I find many of his comments either to be wrong, misinformed or just downright stupid.

And yes, you can just stop listening, but go tell him "If you dont like WoW, stop playing". He will reply "That is stupid, i do like wow (but apparently he quit numerous times in WotLK because he didnt like it? And numerous times in Vanilla because he didnt like it?), i am just criticizing to make the game better". Can you then see why saying "If you don't like his podcast, stop listening" is hypocritical?

But the main point of this thread is saying, there IS players that enjoyed WotLK, contrary to what many players, including the people on cynicalbrit.com and the maker, suggest.

[Deleted]

But I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed WotLK, just as I enjoyed Burning Crusade.

I enjoyed the epic questing storylines, the breathtaking zone environments (and no, it was NOT all just snow), and the fantastic soundtrack. I enjoyed seeing the Yogg Saron/ Ulduar story unfold through the zones, the war against the Scourge as well as many other great chains, such as the Frenzyheart/Oracle quests.

I enjoyed leveling 70-80. Rather then the "I can't wait till i get to 70" feeling i got all too many times in Outland, I felt the "I cant wait untill I get to do X quest in this zone" many, many times.

I enjoyed the 5 mans, even though they were very quickly overgeared and made very easy. They tie in well with the zones they are in, and have stunning scenery and art.

I enjoyed seeing Naxxramas again, as it was one of my favourite raids and I had never got the chance to raid it at level 60. I liked Sartharion and his hard modes, and I definitely enjoyed Malygos a great deal.

I (obviously) enjoyed Ulduar. Just a 10/10 perfect instance, nothing else to say.

While there is a lot of bad feedback for this, and i agree with some of it, ToC had good aspects. It had very cool boss mechanics, such as Twin Valkyr light and dark essence. But, there were many flaws to this instance, namely it being too short to be sufficient for an entire raid tier, limited attempts and gating, as well as the hardmode separate lockouts. That doesnt mean I never had fun in this instance.

Icecrown Citadel was definitely a favourite, even though there were a few dissapointments. Not as good as Ulduar, but still a great instance. Excellent boss mechanics, and a very epic ending to the Lich King fight, a very well designed fight in general.

There are people on this forums who behave like NO ONE enjoyed WotLK, that EVERYONE who liked it was an 'entitled casual whiner'. Seems to me that it is these so called 'harcore' players are the ones whining here (I say So Called for a reason). Ive seen many people overly nostalgic and overly pessimistic. Personally, I have been accused of being a 'wrath baby', even though I started in Vanilla wow. I hear people saying "200 of my friends quit!" (yes, i did in fact read a forum thread where the OP said this), I hear people saying "I quit 17 times after killed Heroic Lich King, Sartharion 3 Drake, Malygos, heartbreaker XT-002, firefighter Mimiron, Yogg+0. heroic Putricide, heroic Sindragosa, heroic Anub' Arak, heroic Halion etc on the first attempt and so did all other 12 million players and that is why 8 million quit!". I've seen people say stuff like "No one complained in BC, in Vanilla it was all rainbows and happiness and in WotLK it was Activision aiming guns to our heads forcing us to raid ToC 4 times a week, forcing us to do endless Alt raids etc". I've heard people say the questing was bad (I really cannot see how anyone can think this, compared to Burning Crusade". Ive seen the dumbest exaggerations, the most idiotic hypocrites and frankly, the most elitist scum of the earth on these forums and the WoW official forums in the past few years (certain treasures like the mount guy come into mind when writing this).

In particular, I would like to talk about a certain WoW podcast maker. Someone who is under the impression that he is a hardcore raider. Someone who is under the impression that he is obliged to hate every aspect of Wrath, yet act like the past WoW years were perfect. Someone who refers to Casual players as the minority. Someone who presumes himself as intellectually superior to all other people. Someone who complains about level 1-5 zones being too easy. Someone who labels just about anyone an "entitled casual whiner" if you disagree with his comments. You are constantly reminded that it is meant to be a criticism podcast, and it is good for the game, but if you criticize the podcast, you are told to not tell him how to run his show and to stop whining, before you are banned from the youtube channel and from the website. This person made a Podcast recently, asking everyone to send in their BAD memories about the expansion. Apparently, no one had any GOOD memories, so we are to only send in bad memories to help back up his 'criticism'. The criticism, by the way, is mostly "this is terrible, blizzard failed, that is terrible, blizzard failed, x whined about y so y was nerfed, oh look i wiped 10 times in a 5 man, how fantastic, oh wait we one shot the boss on normal mode, Cataclysm fails as bad as WotLK". I think we all know who this special someone is.

Heres a tip, people, no matter how long you go on about wrath babies, content being too easy (i beg to differ, the lich king took longer to down than the first 3 sunwell bosses. on NORMAL mode), no matter how much you exaggerate and whine and troll and everything else, you will not change the fact that a large number of us enjoyed the expansion. You've heard about the "vocal minority" and the "silent majority". That concept applies here.

Signed, Dragonwing. A (nearly) veteran player, who enjoyed WotLK, and is not afraid to admit it to the very vocal minority on the forums.

i enjoyeed wrath... doesnt mean it couldnt have been better, i pay for content every month yet we had nax(an old raid) for like 6months, totc was one room with recycled models that spawned and ice crown was out for a year.... some people downed LK at the start of the year. what were they supposed to do just farm mindlessly and wait for cata?- as far as the youtube commentator you talk about, remember YOU pay blizzard , you do not pay youtube or Totalbiscuit therefore you are not entitled to demand content from them. offense is taken not given, and if you disagree with what someone says then dont listen, just because totalbiscuit thinks Wrath was bad doesnt mean it is fact, and just because you say it was good it doesnt mean that is fact either, the truth is there were somethings wrath did very well and others that were poor

it seems like critism from people like TB and others around this forum have been taken in by blizzard and they have moved to make a greater experience in Cata, as far as i can tell all the things that you loved from wrath willl continue in cata yet the things that were fundementally bad/failed will be corrected and only a concise/critical fan base could have achieved this, people dont critise blizzard because they hate the game, they do so because they love it and want it to be good for ever, if players feel that the game is taking a direction that would ruin there playtime they are vocal and usually blizzard answers, which alot of develpoers dont do...... "bungie" with that new halo piece of poop

[Dragonwing]

i enjoyeed wrath... doesnt mean it could have been better, i pay for content every month yet we had nax(an old raid) for like 6months, totc was one room with recycled models that spawned and ice crown was out for a year.... some people downed LK at the start of the year. what were they supposed to do just farm mindlessly and wait for cata?- as far as the youtube commentator you talk about, remember YOU pay blizzard , you do not pay youtube or Totalbiscuit therefore you are not entitled to demand content from them. offense is taken not given, and if you disagree with what someone says then dont listen, just because totalbiscuit thinks Wrath was bad doesnt mean it is fact, and just because you say it was good it doesnt mean that is fact either, the truth is there were somethings wrath did very well and others that were poor

it seems like critism from people like TB and others around this forum have been taken in by blizzard and they have moved to make a greater experience in Cata, as far as i can tell all the things that you loved from wrath willl continue in cata yet the things that were fundementally bad/failed will be corrected and only a concise/critical fan base can achieve this,

Yes, there are things that could have been better. But did i get my 15 dollars a months worth? Yes, i believe so. At no point in WotLK did i feel overly bored and wanting to stop. There were plenty of good aspects.

But the problem is all this "criticism" is mostly just bullcrap. Talk about the issues in an OBJECTIVE manner, issues such as Limited attempts, gating and cancelled content. This is a comment taken from cynicalbrit.com, and keep in mind, compare this to the posts which are deemed "entitled casual whining" in podcasts such as the one mentioning the red shirt guy.

Bye WOTLK you stinking pile of crapp!

Whatever, These will be my last posts about this matter because the expansion is over and there is not much point to this crap anymore. The point is, none of this wannabe criticism is going to change the fact that I enjoyed this expansion. I will enjoy Cataclysm too.

I will also laugh when halfway through cataclysm, we will be hearing "Wow, cataclysm is such a failure. In WotLK, the raids where 10+ bosses long and now they are all 6 boss 7 boss! Remember Ulduar and ICC? Those where the days!". People need not deny this as this kind of stuff has already appeared around the forums. Just like all the issues such as buggy, undertested, overtuned content in Burning Crusade is now never mentioned.

[Deleted]

Yes, there are things that could have been better. But did i get my 15 dollars a months worth? Yes, i believe so. At no point in WotLK did i feel overly bored and wanting to stop. There were plenty of good aspects.

But the problem is all this "criticism" is mostly just bullcrap. Talk about the issues in an OBJECTIVE manner, issues such as Limited attempts, gating and cancelled content. This is a comment taken from cynicalbrit.com, and keep in mind, compare this to the posts which are deemed "entitled casual whining" in podcasts such as the one mentioning the red shirt guy.



Whatever, These will be my last posts about this matter because the expansion is over and there is not much point to this crap anymore. The point is, none of this wannabe criticism is going to change the fact that I enjoyed this expansion. I will enjoy Cataclysm too.

I will also laugh when halfway through cataclysm, we will be hearing "Wow, cataclysm is such a failure. In WotLK, the raids where 10+ bosses long and now they are all 6 boss 7 boss! Remember Ulduar and ICC? Those where the days!". People need not deny this as this kind of stuff has already appeared around the forums. Just like all the issues such as buggy, undertested, overtuned content in Burning Crusade is now never mentioned.

again your missing the point - "did i get my 15 dollar a month worth? , yes" - if you got you moneys worth then great im glad for you, but you shouldnt take other peoples opinions to heart, if you got your moenys worth what diffrence does it make to you that other people feel they didnt. as with everything in the world there will be people that enjoy and others that dont - the idea is the people that enjoyed say what they thought was good and the people that felt ripped off can say what they think would improve the game = an overall better game for everyone.

again just because some people didnt like it dont let it effect your game,, or you will spend all your game time worrying wether other peopel are enjoying it and missing out on all the fun yourself

as for me, i to felt i got my moenys worth from wrath, the questing was great, the instances were enjoyable and the raids were good to, but i know i would be foolish to say that they couldnt improve, when the first ipod came out, everyone was like "wawaweewa", doesnt mean they dont keep making it better every year, and i hope blizzard do the same with cata -

ps, 12 hours to go booya

[bloodforsilence]

Yes. They are certainly a very unwanted bunch of people, but I think the problem is, people act like this type of player came into existance in WotLK. They most certainly did exist in WotLK, but they also did in Burning Crusade, and ESPECIALLY in Vanilla.

This type of player has been around forever, but now they are allowed e-z pass's thru content now. Hell lets give em a full set of tier for doing heroics.... New tier level, have no fear Voa bosses plus heroics will make sure your not left behind in gear.

And honestly TRH's DIAF rofl hate that mount

[pateuvasiliu]

Wotlk was,is and will will be the best expansion for WoW

Until tomorrow that is.

[Fest]

Why can't people understand the difference between a forum and a blog? This type of post does NOT belong on a forum. All it is is spam.