[Resto] Druid Guide - 5.0+

[Myrrar]

You're back! I would love to see your input on this
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-healing-math

Also, will your LS calc still be pretty accurate for 4.2? It's pretty much my bread and butter when giving adice for where to put those talents.

[tangedyn]

Ya, I've had some other new interest taking up my time the past month...

The LS calc isn't updated yet... I'll work on it in a moment. Value of LS should be up by 33%, NB by just under 100% I think. BOTG value will be reduced further - I'd need to add another input field for Mastery Rating.

EDIT: Actually I'll do it tomorrow, just noticed it's 4:40am and I've to get to work later :/

EDIT2: Just went through that other thread, there were some mistakes in the first few posts but it looks like everything got sorted out in the end so the final numbers should be correct. For almost all spells Critical Strike Rating is a tiny bit better than Mastery Rating, but Mastery Rating completely trashes Critical Strike Rating on that one spell which should be sufficient to give Mastery Rating the edge. On my spreadsheet Efflorescence is doing 16-17% of total heals for the Dura/Raid model and puts Mastery ahead of Critical Strikes by about 20%.

[Senium]

hey, can you guys have a quick look at me? Just started healing and about to start raiding with it;

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Hoef/advanced

I've just changed my spec to the medium mana problem one and I know i'm missing a minor glyph, working on that!

Any help would be great thanks

[Deathwish238]

I'm debating Crit vs Mastery. Where's the data showing that Crit is better for throughput now than Mastery? I'm not doubting it too much, but it's a big change.

hey, can you guys have a quick look at me? Just started healing and about to start raiding with it;


I've just changed my spec to the medium mana problem one and I know i'm missing a minor glyph, working on that!

Any help would be great thanks

Why do you have 1596 Haste and are reforging pieces to Haste? Haste should be at two points, 916 or 2005. You should reforge out of Haste until you're as close to 916 as possible. When you have the right gear to get to 2005, then reforge back into Haste.

I like Nature's Swiftness a lot. I use it on CD if possible when the opportunity presents itself. The +50% Healing makes it amazing, I've had a 73k HT. Pretty awesome to see. Combine that with the Healing Touch glyph(which you have...), and it's a great ability to learn to take advantage of.

[Cerelli]

I'm debating Crit vs Mastery. Where's the data showing that Crit is better for throughput now than Mastery? I'm not doubting it too much, but it's a big change.



Why do you have 1596 Haste and are reforging pieces to Haste? Haste should be at two points, 916 or 2005. You should reforge out of Haste until you're as close to 916 as possible. When you have the right gear to get to 2005, then reforge back into Haste.

I like Nature's Swiftness a lot. I use it on CD if possible when the opportunity presents itself. The +50% Healing makes it amazing, I've had a 73k HT. Pretty awesome to see. Combine that with the Healing Touch glyph(which you have...), and it's a great ability to learn to take advantage of.

Hoef, your gear looks good. You can stand to drop one reckless gem from your gear. Probably the belt.
You spec is ok as long as it fits how you play. Just get some boss kills under your belt for upgrades to those troll drops and you are looking ok.

Deathwish, my friend dark intent would like to say hello to you (3% added haste, dropping the WG/efflor cap to 1573).

Actually, the mastery vs crit debate is still open for discussion. Some spreadsheets are leaning toward crit, others mastery with more testing/math still in the pipe.

Nature's swiftness is a playstyle choice, and in no way mandatory. Some people use it on CD, others never use it. If you are one of those people who never use it in favor of more consistent overall throughput, great. If you aren't, great too.

[Iamtheway]

im baaaaaaaack, did you miss me myrrar? and cerelli is right, if you can get DI in a raid its very useful because you can swap out haste trinkets for int trinkets and get that much more bang for your buck. tho i thought DI reduced it to more around the 1700 range, but i didnt get into the maths for it i just had a lock hit me with DI and started removing gear lol. i r lazy

as for the crit vs mastery, thats a hard choice, as tang has said it very dependent on whether or not you have people in your efflor. as for my own toon, im stacking them about even now when i get an upgrade with the changes to the healer crit% and the changes to the mastery mechanic itself, but thats my own personal playstyle and it dosent usually work for the general public.

im loving the new mastery change btw, its making druid healing a little easier for new healers with not having to track what hots are on who and when it expires ect, just cast a DH to refresh LB and ur GTG.

[Deleted]

The stat priority listed is so wrong it isn't even funny.

In a nutshell, the correct stat priority is *generally* (EDITED):
Haste to breakpoint > Int > Spirit (if otherwise OOM) > Mastery > Spirit (if not otherwise OOM) ?= Crit > Haste (after breakpoint)

First of all, Crit is obviously a bad choice for tank healing since it's unreliable when using direct heals.
Models also show that Mastery is better than Crit for raid healing.
So overall, Mastery > Crit for sure.

Then, the REAL issue is whether Mastery or Spirit is better.
Models show Mastery to better in abstract conditions, and in most fights that seems to be the case.
You should generally however reforge to Spirit if you aren't wasting mana, and find yourself OOM at times you really need to heal.

[Dendrek]

Thanks for the unverifiable input. It's good to see you don't need any more evidence than "models show" to prove your point. Mind linking to at least one model that shows Mastery >>> Crit?

[Edit] If you're going to boldly come in, contradicting accepted and verifiable knowledge, then the burden of proof is on you.

[Myrrar]

The stat priority listed is so wrong it isn't even funny.

In a nutshell, the correct stat priority is *generally*:
Haste to breakpoint > Int > Spirit (if otherwise OOM) > Mastery > Spirit (if not otherwise OOM) > Crit > Haste (after breakpoint)

First of all, Crit is obviously a bad choice for tank healing since it's unreliable when using direct heals.
Models also show that Mastery is better than Crit for raid healing.
So overall, Mastery > Crit for sure.

Then, the REAL issue is whether Mastery or Spirit is better.
Models show Mastery to better in abstract conditions, and in most fights that seems to be the case.
You should generally however reforge to Spirit if you aren't wasting mana, and find yourself OOM at times you really need to heal.

You should read pretty much any resto druid theorycrafting anywhere for 4.2.


You may be shocked. Just a forewarning. Though you putting spi as second, and spi after you aren't going oom anymore before crit, you are probably just a troll. Anyone who claims they know something about 'models' and puts that has to be a troll.

[tangedyn]

Also, will your LS calc still be pretty accurate for 4.2? It's pretty much my bread and butter when giving adice for where to put those talents.

Updated for 4.2 now!

[Myrrar]

Updated for 4.2 now!

You're amazing. Thanks. It really makes giving advice on specs 1000 times easier. =]

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if Jaws of Defeat will change the worth of Moonglow? I saw someone mention a respec when he/she obtained JoD in another thread, curious to know if it would be the best to spec out of MG when I get the trinket. Couldn't find anything about this in another thread, if there is such a thread and I missed it please correct me.

[Myrrar]

It doesn't change the value per say, just means you may not need it. Kind of like when people 1st got woe. Once you get jaws, if you see yourself ending the most mana intense fights with a good chunk of mana to spare, you can try speccing out of MG and see how it goes.

When we got woe you could easily drop MG and be fine. Jaws is a pretty significant regen trinket, same as woe was.

[Deleted]

Mind linking to at least one model that shows Mastery >>> Crit

Hmm, all models (i.e. Rawr.Tree, Treecalcs and tangedyn's spreadsheet)? Which ones favor Crit?
Also, not ">>>", just ">".

That's mostly because Mastery is much better for Efflorescence and they are about equal on Wild Growth, which combined with the fact that crit is useless for tank burst healing when heals don't crit, makes Mastery clearly better.

Now if Efflorescence happens to be ineffective on the fight AND there is no tank healing needed from you, you might perhaps have Crit > Mastery (slightly), but at least in Firelands that's generally not the case.

Also, yes, Spirit > Crit is indeed somewhat incorrect to say, I guess Spirit ?= Crit might be a better characterization.
I feel that Spirit is a safer choice, especially when selecting gear, but this is kind of unclear.

Also note that "having enough Spirit" is a nuanced situation, since adding additional casts can have different benefits in different parts of the fights, so its value doesn't just suddenly drop to 0.

[Myrrar]

EJ says crit is better for tank healing.

You put extra spi over crit which is just...wrong.

RG, crit is by far superior.
LB and WG, Crit and mastery are equal
SM, crit is better
Efflor, mastery is better because it's not effected by crit, ticks cannot crit.
HT, Nourish, and RG, both are equal

So, saying crit is below spi is a joke. Crit is far, far better than extra spi. Crit and mastery are close enough that if fully depends on how you heal to make the difference. Actually, according to EJ, they are both valued over Spi in general. A lot of the EJ theorycrafters are saying spi lost most, if not all it's value this patch due to the amount of int we have and how much our other stats count for now.

Aka, the guide has it exactly right. So much for "The stat priority listed is so wrong it isn't even funny." huh?

So again,

If you're going to boldly come in, contradicting accepted and verifiable knowledge, then the burden of proof is on you.

[Dendrek]

I don't know about you guys, but there are very few fights in Firelands where my Efflorescence is able to have high effectiveness. People are spread out or not in need of much healing on Shannox, Rhyolith (P1), Alysrazor (P1/2/3), Beth'tilac (P1), Majordomo (P2/4/6/etc), etc etc. Except for during heavy aoe burn phases, my Efflorescence does very little of its potential effective healing. (I'm also in a 10 man, ranged-heavy group, so the melee "clump" isn't really an option for me.)

Based on two facts, 1) Efflorescence is the only spell we have that favors Mastery, and 2) the difference in throughput between Crit and Mastery is very small even when Efflorescence is highly effective, I think it's safe to say favoring Mastery just for Efflorescence doesn't make a lot of sense in current content (at least for me).

[Myrrar]

I agree. A lot of fights right now you can't just save SM to use in the melee group every time. SM is our only burst heal and an amazing one at that.

In firelands, I can't see mastery overtaking crit for efflor alone. Even more so in a 10 man situation when trying to equalize melee and ranged. RJ does significantly more healing than efflor. WG is it's only real competitor and LB is high up there too, both equal when it comes to crit and mastery.

I can't really see efflor being anywhere near 16-17%, even in 25 mans. Looking through rankings 10s it's about 1/2 that, 25s it's between 10-12% on good fights.

[Deleted]

Regarding EJ, Hamlet says to choose between Spirit and Mastery.

Also, just open the latest version of TreeCalcs and look at the scaling values in the Main tab (with default gear).

Overall scaling:
Crit 2.33
Mastery 2.70

These are the scaling values listed, left is Crit, right is Mastery
Rejuv 1.614413132 1.58893827
Regrowth 0.79199296 1.168915223
Nourish 0.276542109 0.274863632
HT 0.837646365 0.832562256
Swiftmend (Direct) 3.590103712 2.151010724
Swiftmend (Efflor.) 4.402559338 9.735914432
Swiftmend (Combined) 7.99266305 11.88692516
WG 5.197686337 5.366143487
Lifebloom, single cast 0.954464417 1.062381203
Lifebloom, slowroll x3 1.487533371 1.655721747
Lifebloom, rolling 1.521209453 1.693205424
Tranquility 4.201955168 4.338140645

As you can see Crit is only marginally better for the spells it is favored for, while Mastery is significantly better for the spells it favors, explaining the overall effect.

Obviously, this is somewhat dependent on talents and gear, but in general I'm not sure why one would say that Crit > Mastery.

[Myrrar]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-healing-math

Talents make a big difference.

To further elaborate:


Mastery ------------------------------------Crit
Efflor--------HT, N, RG, LB, Wg------- Sm--RJ

Also, WG will also be higher towards crit than EJ says because Ej assumes it isn't effected by GoN. Through testing, it's shown that it is.

[Deleted]

Okay, thanks. I'll keep that in mind once I get my hands on it.