i dont think rets a dps spec anymore

[DionLight7]

I should probably not mention anything about Ret or Paladins because I always get flamed but....

The Paladin in general has no real flavor. Before in BC when I was Prot, we had reflective damage. In Wrath I still kept some of the reflective damage and Ret got Divine Storm. Although the original design was great for what the class stands for, the physical portion it was for the rest of the expansion was okay too.

The Paladin has always been a:
Melee/ healer
Judge of the condemned
Guardian
Stoic and devout warrior

The Paladin now feels like a test dummy really. The Tank abilities are nearly the same for the other tank classes, but as warriors of the light I would've liked to get more reactive ones. Ret paladins, while playing a warrior of the light as well, feels like an RNG based class with no real design other than to deal damage when procs happen.

I'm hearing the fun people are having from playing warriors and DK's. They are also hybrids and have more options to play with than Paladins do. My Paladin while leveling as Ret just felt totally empty. There just seemed to be no reason to level all the way through when I could go into the tank aspect and do better.

[DaGhostDS]

Welcome to the world of being a hybrid; get over it.

Shaman have been going up and down constantly for years.

huh paladin been like this for ages.

[Shelly]

I think ya'll just have to wait for a larger chunk of the population to hit 85 and start raiding. If Ret's really down in the gutter from where Blizz wants them to be there will be changes with 4.1.

So hold tight, record your logs and bring them out to Blizz showing just how wildly RNG affects your dps.

[Prentice]

I think ya'll just have to wait for a larger chunk of the population to hit 85 and start raiding. If Ret's really down in the gutter from where Blizz wants them to be there will be changes with 4.1.

So hold tight, record your logs and bring them out to Blizz showing just how wildly RNG affects your dps.

I wish this was true. Unfortunately, Blizzard claims to collect their own data and does not accept the inputs from their subscribers. The good thing about the ret situation right now is that Blizzard already knows that our mastery is damn near worthless. Yet another ret overhaul and learning curve incoming.

[Xires]

Could be worse. You could of been a ret pally in vanilla or tbc.
dark days for that class.

[Kootz]

i think its more of a support class now, looking at the new spells and mechanics. Dstorm looks like its best used as heals instead. Zealotry is a weird one you can choose to either dps or heal friends. I dont know how others say they do fine dpsing as ret they could be lying or maybe they are bad-ass pro? One thing i did realise though is that people that are new to ret have more success that the ret veterans. In bgs i get creamed real easily by anything that hits me from far. Not saying im bad or rets suck but i find i have alot more success with another person with me. Whats your opinion on rets role in the game?

Shadow priests say hello.. our role is to do bottom rung dps... run oom.. then sit there providing moral support while dk's howling blast for 40k dps

[Prentice]

Shadow priests say hello.. our role is to do bottom rung dps... run oom.. then sit there providing moral support while dk's howling blast for 40k dps

The mana issue was known by Blizzard and has already been addressed. While it may not be completely fixed right now, they are working on it and have some idea of the direction in which to go.

Ret pallys and shadow priests have always been twins. Both were undesirable/lol'd at in vanilla, both were buff classes in TBC, both were heavily boosted in WotLK, and both have issues now in Cataclysm. I guess that just makes us best friends now.

[Deleted]

I was in Grim Batol HC popped everything, hit the right buttons (according to EJ) and in 30 secs I did 7k dps and my rogue mate did 12.5k / equally geared. Something is indeed wrong.

[Beckwin]

People need to stop looking at their damage done in 5 mans...the fights don't last long enough and there is always a dumb mechanic you need to avoid/do.

[Cossa]

Everyone talks about how bad Ret had it before wrath, but I wonder if they were around for BC? With the proper set up and support (specifically a chantment shammy with WF), and seal twisting we could push out reasonable dps, and provided decent support in arena.

The changes in WotLK hurt the image of the class more than anything: goods were still good, and bads were pretty good. I think now you're just seeing rets move back into those two groups again. The rotation is slightly more complicated, yes, but still far easier than in BC (I won't get into vanilla as that was very lol), and far more in line with many other DPS rotations. A lot of people were drawn to Ret because it became "push a few buttons in no particular order, do competitive dps" which was never the designers' intent.

To all you ret rerollers: your choice is adapt or reroll mage.

[DionLight7]

Ret pallys and shadow priests have always been twins. Both were undesirable/lol'd at in vanilla, both were buff classes in TBC, both were heavily boosted in WotLK, and both have issues now in Cataclysm. I guess that just makes us best friends now.

Wait, I thought shaman were our best friends. Or did we lose them during Wrath?

On-Topic: Went Ret for PvP and waited for some procs to happen and nothing did. Hoo-zah...

[Prentice]

Wait, I thought shaman were our best friends. Or did we lose them during Wrath?

On-Topic: Went Ret for PvP and waited for some procs to happen and nothing did. Hoo-zah...

They didn't get enough love from Blizz in WotLK to stay in our club. Felt sorry for those kids on AoE fights and single target fights alike.

[Deleted]

I was in Grim Batol HC popped everything, hit the right buttons (according to EJ) and in 30 secs I did 7k dps and my rogue mate did 12.5k / equally geared. Something is indeed wrong.

Our dps is really much stronger on a long fight, when you get to utilize your 5stack censure DoT with inq up. etc etc.

[Prentice]

Our dps is really much stronger on a long fight, when you get to utilize your 5stack censure DoT with inq up. etc etc.

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest that we're better on long fights? How long of a fight are you referring to? From what I have seen thus far, the fight needs to last ~3 minutes for me to reach my highest DPS. After that I start tailing off and fall to the middle of the pack again.

[wreliq]

To all the people saying that Ret Pallies are too RNG dependent - the enhancement shaman community welcomes their new found brothers with open arms.

From that tangent to on-topic, while I have not played my ret pally in Cataclysm, yet, by the sounds of things, it seems that Ret Pallies are the "new" Vanilla 2h enhance shammies. Capable of incredible burst, but fairly low damage in between. Also capable of throwing out awesome support abilities. I kind of like the sounds of that...

In terms of being a Support-based class/spec, there's really nothing wrong with it, at least in the current paradigm of WoW. I know when I do guild heroics on my enhancement shaman, when I hit 5 stacks of Maelstrom Weapon, I'd just as quickly throw out an insta-cast and free heal on the tank, or chain heal or even healing rain to help the healer out. The guild healers love me for it, as well. Sure, I don't exactly top DPS charts doing so, but hey - I'd much rather kill a boss efficiently (IE healer doesn't go oom, and we wipe), and move on, rather than flex my E-peen. I've long since accepted that we're a hybrid class - whether you're a Shaman or Paladin, et al. - and it's time to use all the tools available to you.

[Alex86el]

Welcome to the world of being a hybrid; get over it.

feral says hi =P

[Deleted]

I know we're not good on target changes. But I thought that was the whole point of lowering seal damage..

[EndGame]

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest that we're better on long fights? How long of a fight are you referring to? From what I have seen thus far, the fight needs to last ~3 minutes for me to reach my highest DPS. After that I start tailing off and fall to the middle of the pack again.

The "happy place" for Ret DPS is (within some degrees of variance) 2:30-3:00, 4:30-5:00, etc. It's basically when we have the "highest" up-time of our CDs. So I would expect our DPS to peak within those time-frames.

Example: You pop Wings at 0:20. Wings comes back up at 2:20; is down at 2:40. At 4:20 it's back up again... then down at 4:40.

[Prentice]

The "happy place" for Ret DPS is (within some degrees of variance) 2:30-3:00, 4:30-5:00, etc. It's basically when we have the "highest" up-time of our CDs. So I would expect our DPS to peak within those time-frames.

Example: You pop Wings at 0:20. Wings comes back up at 2:20; is down at 2:40. At 4:20 it's back up again... then down at 4:40.

And this is exactly what I was thinking. While I did pose the question, it was more of a rhetorical one. It just wasn't clear. Thanks for confirming what I was thinking but didn't type though.

[Sorrior]

No. Do not, I repeat DO NOT accept this. There is absolutely no reason for Retribution, which is labeled as a DPS spec, to accept sub-par damage and erratic mechanics and relegate ourselves to a support role.

/rant
[/color][/B]

Try saying that to me and my fellow ENH shamans. We've had to deal with insane amounts of bias and poor dps for about as long as you have if not longer.

Oh i should add i do have a pally as well and have been playing him off and on since vanilla always ret.