Threat Needs to Matter

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I like the yacht part.

Everything else is old news...

...wait, he's mentioned the boat before, hasn't he?

What's the point of this post then, GC?!

[Deleted]

So far in raids, threat isn't really an issue unless someone attacks at the same time as the tank.

There are so many portions in these encounters where DPS has to attack something else, interact with a different mechanic, or whatever, that usually tanks get 100% dps time on the main boss and threat isn't a factor in the fight.

To me, I don't really see that as an issue. Usually tanks are given something else to worry about, beit positioning or whatever. I doubt they considering piling on threat as a fun mechanic to their class :P

I don't know how out dated my comment is going to be since I stopped playing Mid way through WoLK for my university studies... Having completed all Vanilla Raids and TBC Raids as a MT, I thoroughly enjoyed the threat factor for tanks. I seen it as my own personal challenge, to try and make my Threat per second higher every single encounter, Try and out do myself so that DPS could just go flat out...

Knowing that there was pressure on me to generate threat, so other players could enjoy there class by zerging, doing what they do best, is what made it fun for me, and quite satisfying too!!

I for one, enjoy the threat factor, I Can't be sure how true this will be when I re-activate my account for Cataclysm, but watching Streams, Videos, and Reading this forum, I can honestly say, it seems like the "urge" to play is coming back!

[tofu_soldier]

Now, there are things we don’t like about threat as a mechanic. It’s fairly gamey as game mechanics go and we think there are probably better ways to communicate it to players. There are some mods that do a very credible job given the limited information we provide, but overall we’d like to present threat better since we’re asking you to take it seriously in the PvE game.

I think they're going to nerf AoE threat (or maybe even threat in general), but will attempt to compensate that with UI changes.

[Dramion]

All the tanks I have healed in random instances have been fine with the exception of them having low health. However, the issue I have is tanks queuing for blackrock caverns then leaving after the first boss, they are looking for that shield. Something needs to be done about people leaving the instance after a boss fight. No idea if they would leave even after they got the shield. I know there is some kind of debuff now if you leave during a lfg instance. Something MORE needs to happen then just a debuff, the other night our group went through 5 tanks before a DK tanked the rest of the instance after the first boss. It has happened 3x to me in blackrock.

[Deleted]

I think he is kind of announcing that Blizzard will work on an build in threadmeter or something, just my opinion

[Lightworker]

More condescending one-way arguments from Blizz. One-way comments, such as "We want tanks to care about the buttons they hit instead of just relying on auto-attacking to control their target. " is laughable. They're insinuating that tanks are just sitting there auto attacking when that's NEVER the case. Just one of the MANY little irritating things to laugh at with a blue post.

[superstargoddess]

I'm really not sure what he is trying to say here. We going to be getting a threat nerf or boost?

[crsh1976]

Ok... interesting, we're still talking about tanking? I'm suppose healing output/potency issues have not reached their brain yet.

We'll get some answers in March or April, I guess.

[lamente]

GC may like to call out players for "lawyering" everything he says, but you can tell he enjoys looking for the most diplomatic way to get his point across. It's amusing to read.

[Keristrasza]

I'm so tired of hearing about that pompous ass' yacht.

This, GC think's his changes are always the right thing, even when they aren't then flags around his yacht like it will sway opinion that he sucks.

[Deleted]

However I play with a paladin who absolutely struggles with threat. Usually it's ok, but I can understand the frustration, and have a hard time believing that it will get easier for him.

group:
Divine plea before pull -> Inquisition -> Open with Avenger's shield -> HotR, Holy Wrath, HotR, Concecration, HotR, Inquisiton -> repeat according to CDs -> win
single target:
Divine plea before pull -> Avenger's shield opener -> SotR, CS, judgement, CS, Holy wrath if no add danger, CS, SotR -> repeat according to CD's -> win
both:
basically keep AoE threat with the group rotation, but use HP for SotR. If loosing threat from the other group, inquisition instead of SotR.

Haven't betrayed me so far. Also improvisation is advisable for some situations.

[tofu_soldier]

group:
single target:
Divine plea before pull -> Avenger's shield opener -> SotR, CS, judgement, CS, Holy wrath if no add danger, CS, SotR -> repeat according to CD's -> win

I usually judge first before sotr.

[Tharkkun]

Isn't this a repost on the blog page? This same thing was posted shortly before Cata's release already. Why is it news?

[Blackass]

This is by far my #1 frustration as a tank. I would say its about 20-30% of the trash packs that I will hit the main dps target with all my single target hits, hit my AE's to pick up other targets, and yet an offtarget ends up running off towards a DPS even though I've never even targeted that mob. I either have to try and taunt it and hope that it sticks long enough to get to me for additional threat or I have to running after it which just adds additional chaos to the mix.

Also people with ranged silences have got to me more conscious about getting casters to come into the group. I don't know how many times I've had a caster sitting in the middle of a bunch of CC'd mobs casting at a healer/dps only to know that I run a real risk of breaking other things by running in after it. We are here to work as a team. We should know what roles people need to take in the group, but when it comes down too it in the end you're all in it together.

#2 would be the people who queue up knowing they only have like 20-30 mins to get the run done and expect you to just fly through it will no regard for anything. Dungeons take time again...be patient people are still learning the fights.

Don't worry Jaerin, I've got your back on point #1. As the party healer I just let the character in your example die. Even if I know I can keep them alive I let them die. A smart player will understand what they did wrong and make the necessary adjustment (they call that learning), while the not-so-smart player will abuse you or me then drop group and we will get a fresh recruit who is hopefully smart. Agree 100% with point #2. Smooth and controlled is infinitely more important that fast and chaotic.

[blackangel209]

I hope this is leading to Blizz implementing a more precise version of Omen directly into the default UI.

[MysticalOS]

To me threat is only iffy on pull when vengence is 0, and all dps are also blowing their cds. Moonkins and mages particularlly on the pull just do ridiculous threat where they have to backoff quite often depending on RNG (does heroic throw or first shield slam crit, or worse, didi get parriedon first shield slam). Later in fight it's complete none issue. For me a fight that stands out as annoying though is Maloriak. Tight berserk timer for entry level gear, and tank has to worry about positioning, threat, and interupts, all within first 10 seconds of pull. While dps aren't holding back cause they cannot afford it. i've had boss pulled off me more than once if i got a bad rng parry with first attack. Was it raid wiping? no, he's tauntable, just annoying. i still thnk vengence is a crap design that doesn't help with initial aggro, only maintaining it later fight. tank damage just needs to not be so ridiculously low for all non druid tanks since they cannot gear for threat/mtiigation at same time like druids can without sacrificing significant effective health. more mitigation to threat talents like armored to teeth, then throw out vengence cause if your damage scales with your stamina, or armor, then you won't fall behind dps as those states will crease at exponential rates just like the dps, eliminating the need to even have such a gimmicky vengence mechanic.

[toddiuszho]

Just remove tanks and leave 2 roles - melee and casters. Saves both players and developers trouble of too long queues.

thats just retarded

It's not as retarded as you think. The entire concept of threat and tanking is completely alien to 99% of games. If these bosses are sometimes thousands of years old and renown for their treachery and cunning, they won't care about a mere's mortal taunts and grandstanding. They will swipe at and crush underfoot whoever they please, in whichever order they please. The idea that casters and healers should not take direct hits is what's retarded.

Dedicated healers are another awful concept. Even clerics in classic Dungeons & Dragons fought with maces and wore chainmail. They get down and dirty and can take a licking!

This is exactly why I'm jumping ship when GuildWars 2 comes out. Threat is artificial and gimp. It's a poor simulation of how combat, even fantasy combat, is conducted.

[bushido276]

Any1 else having problems with enhancement shams threat? i can pull 21k threat and they still somehow keep up and somethings take it from me.

[barnard2007]

Anyone else think Blizz should update their random dungeon group-making algorithms or whatnot to account for available CC's? Getting into groups with no CC and being forced to AoE everything sucks lol. My favorite groups have some mixture of mage/rogue/hunter/lock for dps and shaman/druid for healing.

[Deleted]

Is this a nerf tank or buff tank post? I can't decipher it.

Anyways, I have no problems as a feral tank (which i presume is going to be nerfed for damage/threat output) generating threat and generally surviving.

Stuff only goes wrong from a tank perspective when I mess up, though there is plenty of room for error between wiping and not. Tanking atm is slightly more interesting than Wrath, but I feel that after the little period of change in 4.0.1, everything is as easy as ever.