No need for CC already !!!

[Deleted]

yes, thats true. my last heroic (grim batol) was just a run-through. no cc neccessary anymore :-/
just waiting on epic gear to farm heroics within 5 minutes ^^

[synthetikv]

So after getting heroic geared and find ourselves in 3-5 hour instances me and my friend decided to just grind reps in reg dungeons for better gear and to get a bit more experience with our new specs/rotations/etc.

Last night we figured now that we're both in a few epic pieces and mostly 346 in other slots we could give it a whirl again. So we queued for a random heroic and got blackrock, which we've never done before on heroic (i haven't even done it on reg yet). With our limited knowledge of the instance we figured we'd be screwed, but we 1 shot everything but the second boss and had minimal cc. And it took less than an hour to complete.

Safe to say from this point out we're done with regs.

[Fuzzzie]

It really depends on your group. If you have a strong tank and good dps then you can probably aoe tank and take care of it. If DPS takes forever then CCing is still a good idea.

[Deleted]

CC isn't absolutely needed no matter what...however it makes life easier on the healer. Why not use it?

[Abandon]

It really depends on your group. If you have a strong tank and good dps then you can probably aoe tank and take care of it. If DPS takes forever then CCing is still a good idea.

Most of the mobs in heroics have abilities which hit people other than the tank, generally for quite a lot. If you don't bother CCing anything, then it means more mobs up and doing these abilities and so more damage on the entire group. Because of this, as a healer you are forced to use your more expensive heals to keep people from dying as you don't have time for your mana efficent heal, so even if the tank is fine and the DPS are fast it's always going to be more stressful and annoying for the healer since they will be forced to spam-heal to counteract the various random damage on the group.

[Fuzzzie]

Most of the mobs in heroics have abilities which hit people other than the tank, generally for quite a lot. If you don't bother CCing anything, then it means more mobs up and doing these abilities and so more damage on the entire group. Because of this, as a healer you are forced to use your more expensive heals to keep people from dying as you don't have time for your mana efficent heal, so even if the tank is fine and the DPS are fast it's always going to be more stressful and annoying for the healer since they will be forced to spam-heal to counteract the various random damage on the group.

I know. I heal them all the time. Generally I haven't found a problem with that either unless someone is standing in something they shouldn't. I also prefer to pull the whole thing faster and get to the gear than spend 2 hours marking everything. Like I said, if your group can handle it, then go for it. If not, then use what you have at your disposal. Both ways are perfectly fine.

[taran111]

I guess you're lucky then. There has never been a time in a heroic where I felt comfortable letting the tank run with out cc.

Haha you should've seen how me (feral druid w/hibernate) and two mages handled the beauty fight. It was a massive pain, but pretty cool when it worked. Though I've always kinda wondered if it was cheating mechanics to poly/hiber all the puppies. Runty did run in and almost wipe us at the end tho.

Got off track. Anyway, I think heroics are great the way they are right now. Actually feels like an accomplishment to get through some of them. And it is the dps's job to make the life of the healer easier. Therefore, CC liberally!

[Rennadrel]

Tanks in general are pretty insane for damage right now. Our Paladin tank was doing 33k on Halfus 25 man last night thanks to the whelp cage being released, bear tank was pushing like 28k tanking the whelps before we swapped. Suffice to say people are rolling through the content pretty easily, as can be seen by the guilds getting world firsts and how little effort is required to kill most of the bosses in the game right now. Hell my guild downed Halfus on our 3rd attempt last night and we got Omnotron on like our 8th attempt on Tuesday, I was expecting to be spending a few days on one boss though I anticipate that will happen when we get to Nefarian and Onyxia.

And heroics aren't hard with a good group. If players know what they are doing, there isn't much need for CC in dungeons now. You get a group of players who can instinctively interrupt and control certain mobs without needing to pull one or two and CC the rest.

[Paperplate]

Some people aren't counting good stuns and interupts as "CC". If you choose not to use actual crowd control. you *CAN* get away with a lot with proper use of stuns and interupts on the dangerous mobs.

So whne you're talking about using CC or not, brining players who don't just AoE the whole time but instead do these other taks also makes it much easier on everyone.

Someone said about about generalizing. That's the key here. It completely depends on your group makeups, how well people play, and the particular zone you're in.

And btw, the first time I tanked heroic Beauty we did not have good CC so I tanked them all without it. It's not impossible, it was actual very doable. Tons of cooldowns, lots of movement to avoid fires, people being good at avoiding damage, and the healer can do their job. Team effort (see above).

[DomBomb1]

Loken and Anub'arak killed more players than any raid boss for the first two months of WotLK. There used to be a Blizzard website that tracked it.(Prior to Loken and Anub'arak being introduced to the game, the mob most responsible for player deaths was... Defias Pillager) edit: although now that I think about it, dungeon/raid bosses and regular mobs may have been on a seperate list

That's because Naxx was retarded easy, not because heroics were hard.

[Deleted]

Even if prot palas are better than prot warriors in heroics at least due to their op self healing I have been running any heroic out there as a prot warrior in guild groups or good groups in general without CC it is all manageable.

I got about 50% block, 13% parry, 11% dodge and 180k hitpoints.

Shield Wall, Last Stand, Frenzied Regeneration, Glyphed AOE Fear use your panic buttons and it is fine.

Also another key to top level Warrior tank play is making sure you activate Victory Rush as often as you can. It heals more than your healer will probably ever heal you.

[Bombkirby]

Blizzard said before Cata came out in a Blue post that CC would make things more manageable and easier. Its not needed though because some group setups dont even have any.

[Reyzzz]

Yea pallys are pretty OP right now. Expect nerfs inc. Prot anyways, ret and holy seem to be in a good place.

How naive can one be?

[shokter]

Not CC-ing does make the run go faster since you can cleaved down everything. However, some mobs really should be controled to ease the job of the tank a little. Overall it's merely good practice to CC and focus fire from time to time. But yea, after doing a good number of heroics with different tanks, I do notice prot pallies and blood dks are better tanks at the moment due to their mitigation and self healing abilities.

I disagree. Focus firing mobs seems to speed things up because of the nerf to aoe, and because it lessens strain on healer mana. CC and focus fire= healer rarely stops to drink. AOE all the packs= oom healer and party at low health.

[PetersenIII]

Prots are nearly invincible still... they can use word of glory every 9sec with 3 stacks... seal of insight heasls pretty good atm too.. and they got massive dmg reduction talents atm.

Yeah, with piss poor threat. I really, really hate Paladins who use Seal of Insight, their threat is *balls*.

[gnifewrench]

The way I see it, you can pull everything... but our AoE isn't as strong as it was in Wrath. It's more time economic to just get those couple extra mobs out of the way so the healer doesn't have to drink or pop a CD every pull.

[sithorion]

Can we please stop making this kind of threads and read up on blue posts?

There is a reason that there is a cap on valor points. At one point you don't really have to do heroics anymore because you can get your valor cap by doing raids. It's normals>heroics>raids now.
So in full 346 gear, you're above the level they advice you to go and do heroic. Atm you're just making a fool of yourself by saying elementary school is easy when you're a nuclear scientist.

Blizzard never intended heroics in Cataclysm should be a challenge when you're full epic. They just made some things a bit more exciting, like heroic stonecore. And for pugs, it's still dangerous.

[Deleted]

I noticed the same today when I ran a HC first time I was like amagad this is so hard! but now I have a bit better gear and know all the tactics of the instances, and so did everyone else we still had a few wipes on some of the harder bosses but the trash was very easy and we didn't have to use ANY CC, I'm a bit dissapointed that the HC's are already becoming very easy since I really began to like the CC and don't-be-stupid-stuff, well I've tried the first boss in Throne of the Four Winds and that was still hard as hell! so the raids are still very hard.

[Calliemari]

If DPS mess up, the healer has to deal with it. So even if you are making loads of mistakes and the healer is carrying you, you won't notice or care.

That's why we need to start letting them die.