Why "Let them die" Isn't An Acceptable Answer

[Bakis]

I happily let them die when i play some alt healer or tank IF they dont let me/or the tank pull for two separate pulls.
Coulnd't care less if someone think hes a hotshot that can solo stuff.
After that I warn the, "see what happens? now play properly please" and votekick the nextime

[Manito]

I'm sorry. I play DPS. If they stand in the fire. Let them die. Just tell them why you let them die after.

[lizon]

I'm sorry but sometimes I HAVE to let them die. It isn't a matter of if I want them to die, it's a matter of the fact that they are impeding my ability to keep the rest of the group a live. If 1 person is a black hole for my healing do you really expect me to keep pumping my heals into them and threaten my ability to keep the tank alive?

The group can survive without a DPS. The group cannot survive without a Tank. I as a healer, and as a tank have a responsibility to the group, not to any individual person.

So yes, let them die, the groups survival depends on it.

[Idontlikeyou]

I can understand letting a player die, and learn from their mistakes, ONLY after they have been informed a few different times that they are doing something wrong. Just letting them die with no previous warnings, teaches no lessons.

I know you think your $14.99 per month entitles you to play the way you want but the rest of the raid's $359.76 thinks you should know your role

I am more of a believer of:
"In order to save the body, remove the cancerous limb."

[Bahll]

Letting people die in an instance is stupid.

You are being stupid if you do that.

If you are being stupid in an instance, you deserve to die just as much as the person you left to die.

Do not let people die in instances.

I am not going to go oom trying to save a bad at the risk of letting the rest of the group die. Its called mana management, and i don't have enough mana to heal through stupid...

[Lansow]

Props on a well written, informative thread that deals with an all too common problem in the Dungeon Finder tool. This should be required reading for anyone who uses the tool frequently.

Letting sumone die the first time they screw up just drags out the instance and pisses everyone off, if after you tell them what they did wrong they insist on continuing to do it, votekick and keep going. Long drawn out Jersey Shore drama shit A. Isnt funny B. Wastes time C. IS NOT FUCKING FUNNY

Standing in fires isn't funny either. Stop doing it.

---------- Post added 2011-01-07 at 10:23 AM ----------

I am not going to go oom trying to save a bad at the risk of letting the rest of the group die. Its called mana management, and i don't have enough mana to heal through stupid...

There isn't a big enough heal in the game to heal it anyway.

[Waisohawtz]

I am not going to go oom trying to save a bad at the risk of letting the rest of the group die. Its called mana management, and i don't have enough mana to heal through stupid...

As a healer i totally agree with this.. im not going to waste any mana on stupid people NOT moving out of stuff.. let alone the ones that atk b4 the tank.

[Crush]

I always say "Dps dies it's there fault, if healer dies it's the tanks fault, and if tank dies it's the healers fault"

Once got a mage or warlock (don't remember which) saying "No that's a lie, we dps are the only class in dungeons who do all the job"

Ended with me (healer) saying "Okey, go a head, go pull in the mean time we're going to be here far behind you, then try to self heal"

He /ragequit

[guardian_titan]

I ran an heroic DTK toward the end of WotLK on my paladin healer. Had a warlock who was horrendous. He'd melee at odd points and had low DPS as a result, needed every green BoE and blue BoP he could that dropped (he was in T9 so didn't need the items), and didn't respond to anyone in chat. Before the last boss while we were on the fearing mobs, the DK tank told me to let the warlock die. I already planned to. The warlock kept himself alive until the boss where he died due to standing in the green stuff during the skeleton phase. Blaming me wasn't possible since I can't heal in that phase so he died due to his own stupidity. I didn't rez him when the boss died and I instead left along with everyone else forcing him to run back. In that case, it appears the guy was a bot.

Sometimes people do learn to not stand in fire when they're allowed to die. I often don't heal people who stand in void zones, blizzards, flame strikes, etc. The first few times I'll heal them, but after the third or so time, forget it. Move or die. If the tank does it, screw it, I'm leaving. The tank is my priority, not crappy DPS that don't know how to move 5 feet to the left or right. DPS have plenty of ways to keep themselves up these days from abilities to bandages and pots. If they die, it's their own fault. If they blame the healer, the vote kick system goes both ways. The healer can vote kick the poor DPS just as fast as the DPS can kick the healer. Depending on the quality of the group, they may side with one over the other. If the healer let the DPS die for the right reasons (I.E. standing in fires that are easy to move out of), a smart group will kick the DPS and keep the healer. If the group is stupid and thinks the healer could've kept the DPS up in a fire, they'll side with the crappy DPS and vote kick the healer instead. Since DPS have 40+ minute queues, that gives them plenty of time to think about how to avoid dying to stupid crap and how to not piss off their healer or tank so they're not kicked.

So "let them die" can be acceptable under the right circumstances. Don't like it, they can roll a healer or tank instead. Or they can run with their guild. A few less DPS in LFD will make the queues that much faster for those that play nice.

[Bakis]

Some people play to play, others to educate idiots.

[Lansow]

Exactly. Are you (as a healer) so smart that you always know the damage source of 5 ppl? Sometimes it is unavoidable AoE, sometimes it is a tank breaking CC, sometimes letting just 1 member die out of spite you won't have the dps to kill a boss.

But sure, if you have that "teacher" gene and prefer runs to get longer and longer thanks to corpseruns...go ahead. Fact is, even on guild runs, we wipe occasionally, not everybody is perfect all the time.

Glad you won't be in my heroic runs.

As a healer it is my job to pay attention to the sources of damage, so yes, I absolutely know 100% of the time what someone dies to. 100% of the time. I even have addons and scripts to report their failures.

If you believe a healer should heal through other player's stupidity/ignorance/laziness, I am glad you are not in my heroic runs.

[Littlebruddy]

The group cannot survive without a Tank.

Not entirely true, I know for a fact that a holy paladin can tank the dragon boss in SC from 60% :P

Exactly. Are you (as a healer) so smart that you always know the damage source of 5 ppl?

Actually... yes. In a raid things are more complex, but in any given heroic there aren't many sources of damage. I know what is avoidable and what isn't, but maybe that's just because I don't get high while I play.

[deathtakes]

I say let them die. If they don't get it and you get vote kicked big deal, if you're the healer or tank reque and you'll be back in a 5 man in no time at all.

[bleedthesky]

Standing in fire is bad? Thank you captain obvious. I think the point of this thread goes beyond that. Personally, i dont like to waste time in heroics watching people die repeatedly. Hence, if they die once, tell them why, if they do it again votekick.

[pateuvasiliu]

But it makes me feel better when they die. The lesson may be lost on them, but I feel warm and fuzzy as I squat on their face.

You're the reason i take healing&tanking guildies in heroics.

The world has enough drama-queens already,i don't need another one.

Have fun pugging raids by the end of the expansion

[Deleted]

I have to disagree, everybody makes mistakes and thats fine, and everybody needs some time to learn fights which is also fine.
But there are people out there that literally don't know how important keeping out of stuff is, it's all too common to see people getting one last spell off before moving from the fire or completely ignoring adds because their single target DPS is higher.

Nearly all of the time simply saying to a DPS how important moving from fire, killing adds or doing anything other than keyboard mashing will go completely ignored.
To all you people saying that letting people die is stupid, it is the only way to show them, if they move from stuff and kill adds they get a heal, if they refuse to play properly then they won't get a heal. It's kind of like the rewards system that you would use to train a dog but sadly there are DPS in PuGs that seem to need it.

This whole arguement is the biggest reason why I love any boss that can 1-shot DPS, theres no blaming the tank or healer, theres nobody else to blame but the person who got 1-shotted (although I have lost count of all the times I have heard "omg wtf I was out of it" or "got a lag spike!")

It's just easier overall to find a guild, as much as I hate people spouting "getaguild" in every single thread I see, even if it's just so you have more control over who you do a random with.

[Whysomadbrah]

But it makes me feel better when they die. The lesson may be lost on them, but I feel warm and fuzzy as I squat on their face.

Yeah? As a rogue, I get the same feeling when I get you killed via tricks because you aren't doing your job.

[ProBubble]

1 - rather be kicked than wipe the group due to ooming on dumb dps standing in fire

2 - let them die only applies to avoidable damage.. gaining aggro is not avoidable for some classes, and its the tank who is lacking if this happens

3- Not really an arguement fior the harsh learning curve we must put these wrath babies through.

4 - there gold will teach them if dying doesnt

5 - I will tell them why they died and how to avoid it.. its still up to them to stop themselves dying.

and yeah get a guild is not an arguement,

[seratoz]

Personally, I'm about playing my class to its fullest and making sure people learn mechanics, even if it means the hard way .

I am a holy priest. I tell people whenever "LOLwell" is out to use it otherwise i wont heal them (with exception of the tank). I also tell them if they are stupid (stand in fire, try to tank a mob, etc....) that I also won't heal them. Its not really about "letting them die" for me. It's about being efficient for me. I'm not going to put forth the effort to heal them if they wont put forth the effort to play correctly.

I also always can make it out alive (with body and soul, self heal etc..) so if they happen to wipe the raid I don't have to even worry about repair bills.

[Kalidesh]

I use a strike system for my Warrior alt. If you neglect it by doing stupid shit more than X amount of times, I'll let you die (Letting the healer know ahead of time).

I actually saw this work in BRD last night, we had a warlock who liked to use Searing Pain, and pull ahead of me. I'd grab everything, we'd down it, I'd tell him don't use Searing Pain, especially when pulling ahead. He did it again, I restated. And finally a third time, told my guildy to not heal, he dies, goes, "wtf", guildy restates it, problem fixed.


As a side note, I disagree that "letting them die" is not an acceptable answer; despite the mentality regarding the "It's your $15 a month, but the rest of the raid's...". Refusing to put up with idiocy helps in the long run, because after countless deaths they'll either make an effort to learn or quit the game.