BoE items beceme BoP when you press Need

[Evolixe]

Couldnt be arsed reading what other people said, but youve got my full 100% support on this idea and i truly hope it makes it through the devs.

[gaymer77]

Would totaly ruin the idea of BoE epic. I disapprove.

Wouldn't change 1 thing about a BOE epic other than you could no longer need on it and sell it on the AH. The stats don't change. You would still be able to vendor/AH the item if you greeded on it. Absolutely nothing about the BOE epic would change except it would become soulbound upon pressing NEED. Sounds to me like you're one of those people who would need on an item now even if you weren't going to use it just so you could sell it on the AH for a lot of gold.

[Deleted]

I think at the end of the day you're going to still run into the same problem, even with this "solution" - no matter what you do, you're still left with the fact that when a boe drops, or any item really, you're always going to have some jackass who CAN roll need, roll need, even if he doesnt need to equip it and even if it binds it to him in the process - I mean, there are plenty of those same people rolling need on every leather item that drops because they CAN and just vendoring or DEing later as it is.

Unless you want Blizzard deciding what you can or cannot roll on in every single instance ever (and by Blizzard, what I really mean is some sort of constraint-governed predetermined system even more strict than the one currently in place) then you're going to be stuck with people ninja'ing items, especially from pugs.

Of course, I liked things just fine when anyone could roll need on anything at any time, purely because right not the current system favors those who play hybrid classes when it comes to ninja'ing loot. At least before, it was equal opportunity loot ninja time, but these days when I take my rogue to an instance I could theoretically roll on a much smaller number of the items that might drop compared to what my druid can roll on)

On your final point, you are both right and hopelessly wrong at the same time.

Why you are right: context is everything. In a World of Warcraft when realm communities meant everything and everyone levelled up with everyone else from level 1 noobs to max level and beyond, asked each other for spec, class, playstyle advice, profession help, in-game resources, AH help, grinding favors, role recommendations, grew social connections etc, then accountability and respect for each other > *. The strength of your connection to your realm and therefore the strength of the broader WoW community meant everything. You simply couldn't get away with three-quarters of the crap that has become this game because you would be blacklisted from so many things and good people so fast, therefore relegated to doing crap for ages, that you wouldn't believe it. In that context, being a ninja is about as helpful to yourself as being shot in the foot. You may as well stop playing your account for a month or a quarter at a time with your reputation (I did often see that in the old days - or realm transfers away by non-social players). So, people followed conventions pretty much to the letter - because the people they played with meant a lot to them.

Why you're hopelessly wrong: the current WoW community has almost NOTHING to do with realm communities. There are only individuals and guilds. Accountability with strangers went straight out of the window after 2009-12-08, the day *cross-realm* Dungeon Finder tool was introduced. WoW basically changed radically in one day. Now you are only beholden to your guild (if that), more so than in mid-end WotLK due to guild perks. So, in this context, there needs to be rules for interactions between players who will most likely never meet again in their WoW lifetime. It's like a mini-version of Internet accountability (i.e. none). Blizzard had to reframe much of the game around these cross-realm interactions. They will have to continue to do so because there is no other way to set the minimum standards and behaviour expected.

Perhaps this is what Blizzard always wanted from the start. Having so much control over player interactions and what people can/should do between each other and with the game. However, obviously, in the process they have lost a LOT from the core strength of the community. Conventions are now pretty meaningless since there is nothing to back them up, other than maybe a good Kick once every 7-30 minutes, by which time Ninjas and others have already done the damage and looted a ton AND you are actually doing Ninjas and other sorts of mal-players a favor, since they can just do it all over again immediately with someone else! Also, its yet to be seen whether in practice you can replace community and conventions with systems for a game as complex as WoW ...

TL;DR. In the context of this thread, a rigorous loot system is needed. It cannot be left up to players any longer, whether players themselves understand that or not, since the game itself has changed.

[Invariance]

It sounds like a good system on paper. However, there is just one big issue with it.

A lot of guilds out there sell BoE epics that drop in raids to provide funding for flasks and repairs. It would be a great inconvenience to them if they could only get the (example) 22g for vendoring a BoE versus the 10k+ gold it would sell for on the AH. Even disenchanting them and selling the shards/crystals wouldn't generate enough funding for one nights worth of repairs (depending on the guild size)

Just my two cents, other than that, it sounds like a great idea!

[feo]

OT: I always need an BoE that drops for this exact thing, BoEs are generally not as good as things you would see in a raid and in this economy it would be worth so much more to sell it to equip to anyone. I would never let someone equip a BoE when I can sell it for a shit ton of money, especially as it was a caster neck and you get an epic one of those from rep.

TLDR: Always need BoEs

[Bairyhalls]

It sounds like a good system on paper. However, there is just one big issue with it.

A lot of guilds out there sell BoE epics that drop in raids to provide funding for flasks and repairs. It would be a great inconvenience to them if they could only get the (example) 22g for vendoring a BoE versus the 10k+ gold it would sell for on the AH. Even disenchanting them and selling the shards/crystals wouldn't generate enough funding for one nights worth of repairs (depending on the guild size)

Just my two cents, other than that, it sounds like a great idea!

greeding wont make them BoP, since you GREED, aka, want it for the money. Nothing changed here.

[Tricksterjim]

Have the entire party roll need on it - problem solved.

Not the paladin's fault if you're too dumb enough to realize that.

ps: people would need anyways and just get someone to DE it.

Please actually read before responding.

1) If you can't use intellect (Wars, DKS, Hunters, Rogues etc) you can't roll need;

2) If you roll need and it was BOP then you can't have someone DE it for you. Only way that works is if you are enchanter yourself. Then instead of making 14K gold (price of epic necks on my server) you make 500. So by being greedy you lose a ton of gold.

BTW - I completely agree. If everyone can't roll need, then Need should cause the item to become bound. Too bad I don't have an EU account so cannot post where on the topic that matters.

[Bairyhalls]

Please actually read before responding.

1) If you can't use intellect (Wars, DKS, Hunters, Rogues etc) you can't roll need;

2) If you roll need and it was BOP then you can't have someone DE it for you. Only way that works is if you are enchanter yourself. Then instead of making 14K gold (price of epic necks on my server) you make 500. So by being greedy you lose a ton of gold.

BTW - I completely agree. If everyone can't roll need, then Need should cause the item to become bound. Too bad I don't have an EU account so cannot post where on the topic that matters.

feel free to re-post on US, since i dont have a US account the higher the chances that blizzard sees this, the better. Which i why i also recommend people to leave a reply on the offical EU site..

[Yavannie]

I always press need if I see someone press disenchant on a BOE. Then ask everyone to roll manually for it, to save it being lost to a shard.

[Kaga]

Sounds like a pretty solid idea tbh, wonder why it hasn't been thought of before.
As long as it was still tradeable within the group/time limit

[FlyingToast]

It is a really good idea, but it favors the enchanter. Enchanters could just go ahead and screw everyone, because if someone else needed, all they could do is vendor it for some 15g, but an enchanter can need it and DE it to a shard which goes for quite a lot.

Maybe make the item un-disenchantable if needed on? If that happens I can see this working out very well.

[Deleted]

It is a really good idea, but it favors the enchanter. Enchanters could just go ahead and screw everyone, because if someone else needed, all they could do is vendor it for some 15g, but an enchanter can need it and DE it to a shard which goes for quite a lot.

Maybe make the item un-disenchantable if needed on? If that happens I can see this working out very well.

An enchanter could screw the group over any (BoP included) item that they are able to Need on. It makes no difference that this item would happen to have originally been BoE.

You're just slipping a little "anti-current system clause" in there for the sake of it, unlike Kaga's post just above yours where it would be a request for it to act just like a normal BoP item.

However, I can see where you're coming from. Perhaps a 1c vendor value (already proposed) AND disenchantable just for the sake of it for this type of item and roll!

[FlyingToast]

An enchanter could screw the group over any (BoP included) item that they are able to Need on. It makes no difference that this item would happen to have originally been BoE.

You're just slipping a little "anti-current system clause" in there for the sake of it, unlike Kaga's post just above yours where it would be a request for it to act just like a normal BoP item.

However, I can see where you're coming from. Perhaps a 1c vendor value (already proposed) AND disenchantable just for the sake of it for this type of item and roll!

I haven't looked much at shard prices, but I do know the epic ones are running some 3-4k on my server. My post was aimed towards epics, I'm sure shards from blues are no where as pricey since they are more common. This also was aimed toward Heroics, where they are generally through the random dungeon finder, and if someone has an opportunity to ninja, they probably most likely will since you will never see the same people again. In raids you shouldn't be running with the need/greed system unless you are in a tight-nit guild.

[Gilgemesh]

There are no consequences to being an asshole anymore. People will need because they can. Its sad and immoral, but it is the reality. I like your idea, sadly don't see it becoming so.

[chunkycarl]

a big flaw in this is say for example your BoE kneck drops.
DPS A has no use for it, but he is an enchanter
DPS B needs this item to equip.
Both Dps could roll and Dps A would still profit from it with a tidy maelstrom crystal (sure its not the like 8k+ the epic would be, but still their about 2k on my server still).
its another good idea on face value, dont get me wrong, However people will always find ways to abuse the systems. it comes down to morals really, those who aint dicks will do the honist thing and pass if its not an upgrade for their MS, others wont.

[Dedweight]

It's just a case of not pugging with randoms tbh.

Honestly the game would improve a lot if Blizzard discouraged PUGs and tailored the instances around guild groups. You'd have less bad players, less ninjas, less ragequitters.

While that idea works on paper in reality it would take away a lot from the game. I know multiple people(including myself) who have chosen to stay in a small or personal guild where there may not be more than 1-5 people of varying levels on at a time so you would be "stuck" pugging. If Blizz insisted that we had to run instances(5man or otherwise) I'm certain a fairly large number of people would quit playing.

As to the OP's Idea, it's a solid one and I can see it working great depending on how it's implemented. As someone already commented how would it work in guild/raid groups? There are occasions that the ML is out of range and the looting becomes the need/greed system. If someone needs the item to pass off to the ML to hand out or toss in the GBank for tossing on the AH later would the item become BoP then?

[Deleted]

So summing these points up how it would work:

- BoE becomes BoP when needed.
- Vendor value could be 1c, or probably you can't sell them at all, like tier items, if you won via "Need".
- When won by needing, item will come non-disenchantable.

- Should this only work on PuGs? (Cross-realm only I mean).
- Probably forgot something, but I still hope this change would come to live, though I doubt it.

Overall these changes, with maybe couple others, would make ninjaing basically useless, which would be very welcome change.

In guildruns, this won't probably work if guild wants to sell item in AH. But in that case, adding this feature to affect only PuGs, there won't be problem with this.

After all, if you're doing instances with group from your realm, then you can of course need to everything by default. But if you're doing raids with randoms from your realm and using ML, then I don't know what should be the best option to solve this.

[Mif]

a big flaw in this is say for example your BoE kneck drops.
DPS A has no use for it, but he is an enchanter
DPS B needs this item to equip.
Both Dps could roll and Dps A would still profit from it with a tidy maelstrom crystal (sure its not the like 8k+ the epic would be, but still their about 2k on my server still).
its another good idea on face value, dont get me wrong, However people will always find ways to abuse the systems. it comes down to morals really, those who aint dicks will do the honist thing and pass if its not an upgrade for their MS, others wont.

ICC BOE epics sold for 15000g+
Abyss crystals sold for 30g

You really think Malstrom's will be worth over 100g by the end of the current tier?

[Fizzleshot]

As others have stated but maybe not in these words, learn to read.

Not everyone has English as their first language. Correcting grammar and telling people to learn to read is against the forum rules.

[Deleted]

a big flaw in this is say for example your BoE kneck drops.
DPS A has no use for it, but he is an enchanter
DPS B needs this item to equip.
Both Dps could roll and Dps A would still profit from it with a tidy maelstrom crystal (sure its not the like 8k+ the epic would be, but still their about 2k on my server still).
its another good idea on face value, dont get me wrong, However people will always find ways to abuse the systems. it comes down to morals really, those who aint dicks will do the honist thing and pass if its not an upgrade for their MS, others wont.

It's not a "big flaw" in the proposal since an enchanter can already do that with any item they can Need on (BoE, BoP or otherwise)!

The proposal doesn't introduce anything new regarding enchanters ...