Fire mage 4.0.6. change?

[Deleted]

"Flashburn (Mastery) benefit per mastery has been increased by 12%."

Do you think that changes the rotation, gems and glyphs? Because this is so big buff to mastery, should every fire mage go from:

Main nuke: Fireball
Stats: Int - hit - crit - mastery - haste (or whatever do you use)
Major glyphs: Molten, Fireball, Pyroblast

To:

Main nuke: Frostfire bolt
Stats: Int - hit - mastery - crit - haste
Major glyphs: Molten, Frostfire bolt, Living Bomb?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I'm no fire mage, but the mana reduction for fire seems to lead to less weaving of scorch, which allows better DPS from fireball. I also heard from thesim result page that the changes were a nerf to both frostfire specs.

Fireball fire is still top, and by a wider margin now.

[Deleted]

True, less scorches more DPS

But what I ment was, that technicaly increased damage from LB (mastery +glyph) + increased damage from Frostfire (glyph + mastery) + increased damge from combustion (mastery) + normal Pyro, Scorch, Combustion and Flame orb can possibly get over increased crit from fireball (glyph) + increased crit from pyroblast (glyph) + normal LB, scorch, combustion and flame orb?

I will definetly do some calculations when I get home

[Deleted]

I don't think the buff is significant enough to swap Mastery for Crit in our stats priority list but it will certainly replace Haste after the Soft Cap of 516 /w 3/3 NP.

I reckon it'll be.

Main Nuke: Fireball (With significantly less Scorch Weaving due to mana cost reductions which = more dps.)
Stats: Int, Hit, Crit, Haste until Soft Cap then Mastery.
Glyphs: Molten, Fireball, Pyro

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 12:00 PM ----------

True, less scorches more DPS

But what I ment was, that technicaly increased damage from LB (mastery +glyph) + increased damage from Frostfire (glyph + mastery) + increased damge from combustion (mastery) + normal Pyro, Scorch, Combustion and Flame orb can possibly get over increased crit from fireball (glyph) + increased crit from pyroblast (glyph) + normal LB, scorch, combustion and flame orb?

I will definetly do some calculations when I get home

Actually, that sounds pretty nasty when you put it that way. Let us know when you've finished hehe.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I guess the big thing is that the DoT from frostfire is weak as all hell. You're passing up a lot of crit to stack that mastery, and a lot of crit from glyphs, which is going to result in a lot less hot streaks. But, I'm not a fire mage, so I'll let you do your calculations and hopefully you'll prove me wrong.

[Deleted]

I guess the big thing is that the DoT from frostfire is weak as all hell. You're passing up a lot of crit to stack that mastery, and a lot of crit from glyphs, which is going to result in a lot less hot streaks. But, I'm not a fire mage, so I'll let you do your calculations and hopefully you'll prove me wrong.

Plus in turn if you have less crits you get less Pyro DoT's out and so that negates the mastery bonus anyway as Combustion will be less effective.

[Hibbo]

Haste will still be better for fire as mastery, because of the changes to the mana costs of Fireball and LB.
Here is a sample of Simulationcraft with the PTR changes, sadly only for 372 BIS gear and basic with 300 sec and no movement.

http://manoutoftime.org/misc/simc/pt...372/basic.html

[Deleted]

Mastery will stay a very weak stat for fire.

[Xentropy]

The soft cap for haste gets thrown around way too much. The value of haste (on a per point basis) doesn't drop after the soft cap, it's just huge AT the soft cap, so getting it there is a nice boost. With the current state of the fire talent tree (Pyromaniac bug), however, soft haste capping is basically "free" for any reasonable level of gear. Haste still remains more valuable than mastery (by a significant margin) *after* the soft cap anyone able to queue for a heroic is past.

Keep in mind as well that neither Rawr nor Simulationcraft take ignite munching into account, which by most accounts is 5% of our total damage (not just of ignite's damage), and thus devalues mastery even further (as in, those programs believe we do ~45% damage via dots, when in reality on actual parses it comes closer to ~40% due to ignite munching). Relative values fall into the general range of hit to cap, then crit a fair ways below that, haste barely below crit, and another large drop to mastery. Post-patch mastery goes from 2.5% to 2.8% per point, but that doesn't really catch it up to haste, by current sims/formulas. Haste, in fact, increases in value due to the mana cost reductions.

My Rawr data in 353-average gear (after purposefully reducing a bit of hit to show its value before capping):
Intellect 3.230923
Spell Power 2.63707 (included for enchant choice and trinket proc purposes)
Hit Rating 1.949219
Crit Rating 1.220703
Haste Rating 1.189453
Mastery Rating 0.9179688

And this is without considering ignite munching, which the 4.0.6 buff to mastery basically almost exactly counters.

[Deleted]

516 haste will still stay the first goal. If you reforge all haste away from decent raid gear youll still have more than 500(T11 ALL items have haste...). So youll probably get the 516 if you want or not... reforging a few pints below that obv. is a stupid idea.

Problem ist mastery makes fire even MORE crit dependant than it already is. Thats a very very bad thing. My own DPS can be +- 2.000 on the same boss with even better gear in the next week. In fact blizzard heavily failed with designing the fire mage. Maybe in 2 tiers we will see stable DPS, but buffing mastery is just the wrong way. Giving us more crit would be one (not very elegant) solution, but making the whole thing even more crit dependant by buffing mastery is just fail, fail, fail....

[Deleted]

"Flashburn (Mastery) benefit per mastery has been increased by 12%."

Do you think that changes the rotation, gems and glyphs? Because this is so big buff to mastery, should every fire mage go from:

Main nuke: Fireball
Stats: Int - hit - crit - mastery - haste (or whatever do you use)
Major glyphs: Molten, Fireball, Pyroblast

To:

Main nuke: Frostfire bolt
Stats: Int - hit - mastery - crit - haste
Major glyphs: Molten, Frostfire bolt, Living Bomb?

No mate, the benefit of mastery i would see more as a passive benefit with what you have on your gear, Crit will always be superior due to the general base of the talent tree feeding off crit.

It would be like saying, you can now run slightly faster, it effects you in no direct way but its there. like mastery, it just happens