Sub pvp in general?

[Deleted]

Hi, i wanna try sub for pvp
and im not sure what abilities to use to stack up the combo points and what ability to spend the combo points on ??? ..

-maybe a pvp guide somewhere? im not sure of spec and glyhp either... help please!?

[joshwah]

Wait for the next patch to hit before playing sub, in the meen time pvp as assassination and just tunnel everyone.

[Improvedlol]

Wait for the next patch to hit before playing sub, in the meen time pvp as assassination and just tunnel everyone.

thats a stupid way to think. If he wants to play sub, he should play it right now and start to practice.

[Voltair]

Backstab if you can get behind your opponent Hemo if you can't, sub you have to pool your energy alot, never use rupture just let the hemo glyph keep your bleed 10% damage buff up, and be aware that since you don't have a reliable non-position based slow in the Sub tree you kinda have to use Crip Poison

Alot of Sub rogues in arena are running Crippling Main-hand and Mind-numbing in the off-hand, I'd keep a separate dagger with wound if your not facing a caster

Also shadow dance plays a huge key in being effective with sub, provides a good amount of burst

[Deleted]

thank you. are you 100% sure its cripple main hand? and not off? (if I wanna use wound and cripple)
and what about glyph and spec? the armory link dosnt work

[Bobbojonno]

thank you. are you 100% sure its cripple main hand? and not off? (if I wanna use wound and cripple)
and what about glyph and spec? the armory link dosnt work

i dont think there is a rule, but i switched crippling to main hand cos it takes to long to land on OH.
U also need to get ur recuperate up as soon as possible... Rupture does have its place... that is when non healers are low on hp and u can finish them off without taking dmg... very situational. U need to use ambush on heavy armour and evis while find weakness is still running. infact sub is very situational all round.

Prey on the weak and dont be ashamed to do that cos that is your strength... u will kill anything on 20-30% hp if they not expecting you to attack.

[Deleted]

k thanks man ! can you link me a spec? why recuperate? its give some kind of buff aye? without the healing i mean

[Bobbojonno]

k thanks man ! can you link me a spec? why recuperate? its give some kind of buff aye? without the healing i mean

recuperate also regens 12 energy every tic in Sub

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhcZb...0Rho:zmaik0mcz

u prob wont need the ambush glyph, but i really like it... or the point in Initiative but that works for me too.

[Deleted]

really thank you ! one last thing.. combo points, i know its situ. but just tell me the most general, is it evis. slice and dice and kidney ?? or.. ?

[Bobbojonno]

really thank you ! one last thing.. combo points, i know its situ. but just tell me the most general, is it evis. slice and dice and kidney ?? or.. ?

Kidney if u would rather control. (Just before shadowdance)
Recuperate if its not up
Eviserate to burst down
Rupture when you want to sit back and watch them die or to bleed a rogue so he comes out of stealth when vanish buff falls off.

[Tasty Nacho]

quick note you may not want to put anything into initiative, chances are with honor among thieves maxed out, you're going to have a lot of combo points on the target already if you're in a bg or a large arena team (due to other players crits). obviously if your on a smaller team/in a smaller match, you wont generate combo points as fast from team mates and HaT

[hobbez]

Proper use of finishers are what make you a good player. Personally, I think Kidney Shot should always be on CD unless you are saving it for something specific. Recuperate is good and should be maintained, but opening with recuperate is a huge DPS loss when you aren't likely to be taking much damage. Rupture ticks for so little that it is hard to justify. Evis is pretty bad DPS too, but better than nothing.

The best to do it is to just practice. Duel, arena, and BG. Once you've fought a mage a hundred times, you'll know how to open and what finisher to use when.

[Rinzler]

Just a little tidbit for a mage fight. save your shadow step for when they wanna blink. It sucks when its on CD and the mage then proceeds to faceroll freeze all day win. Use your CDs they are there for a reason. Deadly throw is a nice slow if you get a free CP from HaT.
Cheers!

[Jeer]

everyone forgets that shiv is your best friend

[callango]

I just got lvl 85 and the PVP build I'm using on my rogue is this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fZbhbZ...cRho:zmaibRmcV
Does this work well?
What should I change in it?
Is it really worth taking improved sprint over the talents on the assassination tree?
Why shouldn't I use rupture? Isn't hemorrage suposed to increase it's damage?

[Demetrion]

everyone forgets that shiv is your best friend

QFT!

wound/numbing MH, cripp OH, wound/numbing thrown

As for it, HaT is a must. Your every bleed can crit now (including glyphed hemmo), so you should be rolling CP like a mad man, and for the finishers have 100% uptime on recup. Start with premeditation > recup then do your thing.

[Spondoo]

Sstep, Ambush/Garrote depending on what you're attacking. Hemo, back stab pool energy for kidney, dance and its GG. Blind if they trinket your kidney and go for a restealth.

[Lemons]

recuperate also regens 12 energy every tic in Sub

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhcZb...0Rho:zmaik0mcz

u prob wont need the ambush glyph, but i really like it... or the point in Initiative but that works for me too.

For a beginning rogue I would take Quickening over Improved Recuperate. Why? Because your resil and health are both low so the little tiny heal from recup isn't going to save you. Better to get some more mobility from Quickening. Plus it's just plain fun to have Quickening and shs in the same spec!

[The Chad]

For a beginning rogue I would take Quickening over Improved Recuperate. Why? Because your resil and health are both low so the little tiny heal from recup isn't going to save you. Better to get some more mobility from Quickening. Plus it's just plain fun to have Quickening and shs in the same spec!

It's not the heal (it is nice though, 4k+ ticks), it's the 6% reduction in damage taken that you get while Recup is up.

[Standing]

Energetic recovery allows recuperate to return 12 energy per tic (every 3 seconds), and costs 30 energy. At 2 combo points recuperate lasts 12 seconds and it only takes 9 to start seeing a positive net energy return (that means you gain 36 but only used 30). With preparation and an opener you will have enough combo points to make it more than worth while to use even if you don't need any healing. If you anticipate a fight lasting longer than 9 seconds I would go for it.

Like Assassination you also can spec into trade offs between survival and damage. For example, if you pick up improved recuperate or quickening, you maybe giving up about 20% increase critical chance with backstab from Puncturing Wounds talents.

Last, keep in mind the very simple strengths of the spec too:

-- If you use Backstab you have Waylay target debuff, which slows the targets melee and ranged attack speeds by 20% (and movement speed by 50%). Hemo does not provide this.

--Test it yourself based on your talent spec, but Backstab for me returns much more damage per energy cost than Hemo. I try to use it as often as I can, and since it takes a bit more energy there is no reason not to be a little patient while meshing it up with someone to get the chance to use it. (try to learn to mouse turn if you don't already, it's easy to get it off)

--Keep your Hemo glyph bleed up at all times if there is no other bleed on the target, this is for the 10% damage increase. It lasts 30 seconds and is easy to apply. It also helps keep Rogues and anyone else from staying stealth for too long.

--Shadow Dance is once every 60 seconds. If you glyph you have 10 seconds to use Ambush/Garrote/Cheapshot as much as global cooldowns and energy provide while it's active. Garrote provides silence and an annoying bleed and Ambush instant damage. Consider having a full energy bar, with recuperate running and a bleed up before you bust into Shadowdance ambush spree. You can shadowstep out of steath, it requires no energy and provides an increase "in power" to your next Ambush. You may not want to use it in order to retain some mobility, but it can help with burst if available during Shadow Dance. Also, even once the dance ends you have 10 more seconds of "Find Weakness", which is currently for you 50% armor reduction, but hopefully will get to 70% with the next patch.

--Vanish can be used as an offensive spell because of the Ambush/Garrote (silence too) into Find Weakness.

--Consider dropping initiative. If you use preparation into Ambush, you have 4 combo points already. I immediately use hemo to start the bleed, before I recuperate. That's 5 points, and initiative is not needed. Also, if you are using Shadow Dance you are likely not going to be using all those combo points you generate anyway during that time. this is only one scenario, but I found those two points were much better served in a healing talent or a more direct DPS talent.