10-man Difficulty - Mana Efficiency

[GoochamusPrime]

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but I feel that even with around 2700-3000 Spirit I go OOM fairly often in our 10 man raids as Holy. Obviously it could be due to the fact that I need to heal people taking more damage than absolutely avoidable (everyone makes mistakes) but I try to stay away from Flash Heal and Greater Heal no matter what (unless SoL procs of course).

To me it just seems that it is almost absolutely necessary to always have a Resto Shaman in the group as well, which, while in a 25 man raiding situation you should never have a problem with, but in a 10 man one, can be a little dicey.

Just curious if anyone else is having some mana issues in their 10 man groups or if anyone has any suggestions (aside from "DERP GET BETTER GEAR NOOB")

[unholyskipper]

well im not much of a healer but about the dps making mistake... The harder the content gets the less mistakes are allowed to be made ...ussually after a little practice the dps gets used this aviodable damage and wont get hit just keep trying i guess
this is from a dps standpoint idk how to help you pally healing never tried it

[Kifimbo]

dont spam heal, i dont have a priest but i have a durid and a shaman healer, and have found, that letting the raid sit around 60% isa godsend on mana, just make sure you can top em off if needed.

[Xs]

It would be helpful if you put up an armory link or raid data

All I can say from your post is weave in as many heals when you can rather than going all out greater heal and stop casting
Remember that if people are above 60% they're probably not in danger of dying unless they fuck up themselves so don't just spam out greater heals unless the HPS is really needed

[Deleted]

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but I feel that even with around 2700-3000 Spirit I go OOM fairly often in our 10 man raids as Holy. Obviously it could be due to the fact that I need to heal people taking more damage than absolutely avoidable (everyone makes mistakes) but I try to stay away from Flash Heal and Greater Heal no matter what (unless SoL procs of course).

To me it just seems that it is almost absolutely necessary to always have a Resto Shaman in the group as well, which, while in a 25 man raiding situation you should never have a problem with, but in a 10 man one, can be a little dicey.

Just curious if anyone else is having some mana issues in their 10 man groups or if anyone has any suggestions (aside from "DERP GET BETTER GEAR NOOB")

A tip is tell your raid too be less shit, if they take a lot of dmg for no reason than that's what's draining your mana.
Our 10 man group has 2 holy priests and 1 holy paladin(me) and we've done about 10/12 in a week but I can't remember a fight we actually struggled with mana, maybe on chimaeron because of overhealing, or council because last phase we spammheal the raid for longer uptime but other than that as long as the raid does its job, we usually dont go oom.

[Deleted]

1. Don't spam heal like said, try to catch some regen breaks.
2. Remember, you're not the only healer. You don't always have to think you have to top everyone up.
3. Teach your raid how to play if they are taking so much avoidable damage. Nobodys mana will last long enough if tards stand in fire.

That's about it, can't really comment on any priest specific stuff but those 2 things help a lot on any healing class.

[GoochamusPrime]

You are right, I probably will have to watch myself and just let people sit at lower amounts of health, I usually try to keep everyone at 100% out of habit, too used to Wrath's hits that would one-shot or two-shot people at less than that

Unfortunately I can't post my Armory until I post more on these forums though. If you don't mind the search, feel free to look up my priest on Battle.net. His name is Rezuformoney

[Zeppelin535]

2700-3000 Spirit? Are you healing regular modes or heroic? As a Resto Druid I only have around 2050 spirit and have no mana troubles raid and/or tank healing 25 regular modes. Granted my raid does have a resto shaman for mana tide, but I am using my Innervate on another healer who is not in the Shaman's group as a result. Also, do Holy priests not get increased regen from spirit via talents? Are you 2 healing content? If not either your other healers must be sub-par, your raid must be taking too much avoidable damage or you must be doing a lot of over healing, or perhaps a combination of the three.

[Niellak]

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but I feel that even with around 2700-3000 Spirit I go OOM fairly often in our 10 man raids as Holy. Obviously it could be due to the fact that I need to heal people taking more damage than absolutely avoidable (everyone makes mistakes) but I try to stay away from Flash Heal and Greater Heal no matter what (unless SoL procs of course).

To me it just seems that it is almost absolutely necessary to always have a Resto Shaman in the group as well, which, while in a 25 man raiding situation you should never have a problem with, but in a 10 man one, can be a little dicey.

Just curious if anyone else is having some mana issues in their 10 man groups or if anyone has any suggestions (aside from "DERP GET BETTER GEAR NOOB")

I understand what you are going through, i play a holy paladin yes i go oom myself but hey who doesn't lol but anyways,

Yes - they made it harder for healers again * it was in vanilla wow *

Yes - Dps / tanks need to pay more attention on raid awareness then your healer won't go oom on silly dmg they are taking for example - Magmaw nobody moving out of the Flame Pillar or not moveing away from his Crash zone thus takeing alot of dmg and forceing the healer to toss a good chunk of mana at ya.

Tonight, did a guild Cho'gall 10man * still working on him * but in our main grp we got him to 20% * best attempt * but anyways tonight we had to bring a few extra's * new * people in due to people having trouble logging on for tonight so we bring a tank he is undergeared and was dropping like a fly lol who do you think got blamed for having him die ^_^?

Holy priest's i don't know much about em but i belive they are somewhat weak right now? cause i only see 1-2 at least in my 25man raid my 10man we carry 2 holy pallys and a priest.

[GoochamusPrime]

2700-3000 Spirit? Are you healing regular modes or heroic? As a Resto Druid I only have around 2050 spirit and have no mana troubles raid and/or tank healing 25 regular modes. Do Holy priests also not get increased regen from spirit via talents? Are you 2 healing content? If not either your other healers must be sub-par, your raid must be taking too much avoidable damage or you must be doing alot of over healing, or perhaps a combination of the three.

I think a large part of the problem is avoidable damage being taken, so you're right there. As far as the amount of Spirit, that's Flasked and raid buffed. And no, we don't 2 heal the content. We typically have Holy Priest, Resto Shaman, Holy Pally as our setup

---------- Post added 2011-01-18 at 12:30 AM ----------

Holy priest's i don't know much about em but i belive they are somewhat weak right now? cause i only see 1-2 at least in my 25man raid my 10man we carry 2 holy pallys and a priest.

They're not weak right now, if anything I think Resto Shaman's are the weakest in 10 mans (just from personal experience). Priests are supposed to be crushing 25 mans right now, which also makes me nervous for the regen nerf Holy will be receiving, might switch back to Disc for the shield buff

[sp101]

Stay away from Flash of Light unless the person you're healing is gonna die in the next seconds.

Greater Heal is alot more mana efficient than Flash. Usually when a single player is missing ~40k HP, this is the correct spell to use assuming you will have another person to heal with the next GCD (if you have all the time in the world, Heal is your friend!).

Prayer of Healing is currently way too efficient, abuse it when 3+ party members are missing over 10k health.

Binding Heal is efficient it as long as you don't overheal with it.

Prayer of Mending pays for its cost if it bounces three times.

Sanctuary isn't great if there's not 6+ members of the raid standing in it for most of its duration, unlike Heaing Rain and Efflorescence which are pretty damn efficient. Keep its use only for phases when the raid (or at least a good part of it) are stacked up and don't need to move out very much. Magmaw right after Pillar of Flame, Atramedes' ground phase, etc.

Besides using the right spell for the right situation, planning ahead often increases your mana efficiency. When you see a raid member under 20% hp, you need to ask yourself in how much danger this person is of dying. During a fight with high sustained raid damage (such as Magmaw), using a Flash Heal will usually save the person. However the same raid member sitting at 20% is in much less danger of dying on another boss encounters, lets say Maloriak during his blue phase.

Also being aware of the fight's status may improve your mana efficiency. For example, knowing that a Blackout is coming during Valiona or knowing which constructs are activated on Omnotron Defense System will help you select the right spell.

[GoochamusPrime]

OT: I know Mastery for Holy Priests is supposed to be pretty good, especially when you're having to spam AoE heal, but in my 10 man group I typically try to help tank heal and I feel mastery lacks big time when you're spamming Heal on your target, the HoT isn't that great imo

I already try to balance Mastery and Haste, should I be reforging for Crit/Haste instead do you guys think?

[sp101]

Also, most of the content can be cleared while 3-healing fights, because enrage timers and soft enrage mechanics are usually very easy to beat during the first tier of an expansion.

---------- Post added 2011-01-18 at 06:43 AM ----------

I already try to balance Mastery and Haste, should I be reforging for Crit/Haste instead do you guys think?

I think the community agrees that crit is a big no-no as far as Holy goes.

[GoochamusPrime]

Sanctuary isn't great if there's not 6+ members of the raid standing in it for most of its duration, unlike Heaing Rain and Efflorescence which are pretty damn efficient. Keep its use only for phases when the raid (or at least a good part of it) are stacked up and don't need to move out very much. Magmaw right after Pillar of Flame, Atramedes' ground phase, etc.

Another thing I forgot to mention, Sanctuary is nearly useless in 10 mans. It heals for next to nothing and costs way too much mana for the amount of healing it does. I love using Serenity, the instant cast heal is a life-saver

---------- Post added 2011-01-18 at 12:46 AM ----------

I think the community agrees that crit is a big no-no as far as Holy goes.

That's what I figured =P Thanks for reassuring the stat choice for me

[sicness]

Holy priest's i don't know much about em but i belive they are somewhat weak right now? cause i only see 1-2 at least in my 25man raid my 10man we carry 2 holy pallys and a priest.

Outside of holy paladins, priests are easily one of the best healers, and probably unquestionably the best aoe healer.

---------- Post added 2011-01-18 at 01:55 AM ----------

Another thing I forgot to mention, Sanctuary is nearly useless in 10 mans. It heals for next to nothing and costs way too much mana for the amount of healing it does. I love using Serenity, the instant cast heal is a life-saver

Correct, Sanctuary is only good in a handful of situations, Magmaw, Chimaeron. Otherwise it's mostly useless.

[Deleted]

I've noticed that alot of healers (not class specific) seems to only use their regen abilities when they need mana :/ It sounds like its logical, but it isn't.

I play a holy paladin and (depending of the fight ofc) when i've thrown out my first few heals and get 10-15% down in mana i pop my spirit trinket and divine plea to get back to full and have the cooldown be ready again in the early parts of the fight. Im not sure what abilities you have to regen mana with except for shadowfiend and hymn(once per combat use in most cases), but popping them early could give you the extra mana you need.

Also Concentration Potions gives you 22000 mana instead of the 10000 from mythical mana potion, if your raid and other healers aren't completely shit you should be able to pop one of these in a slow phase, just make sure you coordinate it with your fellow healers so that they know you wont heal for 10 seconds and they dont pop one at the same time.

[Deleted]

I've noticed that alot of healers (not class specific) seems to only use their regen abilities when they need mana :/ It sounds like its logical, but it isn't.

^this. Use your regen abilities/items/whatever, the second you will use it 100% and not get "too much" mana back. (over 100%)

[Evolixe]

That is indeed true, use them as soon as you can to get it back up quickly as posseble. If you dont have enough mana in the end after using it when you need it, you wouldnt have had enough using it earlier either.

Also, ive only healed Baradin Hold untill now with an itemlevel of 336, went oom at about 15% but priests can still do fair healing without mana.

Should be starting to heal the more important raids next lockout, ill let you know

[Skarrd]

I have used about 2.3 healers for the first two of each instance (sans throne) and been more than okay. Pugged runs, at that. Both were with a solid holy paladin and a garbage shaman (basically doing 1/3 of our HPS, but tide probably helped). I've probably used flash heal three times, none of which lead to kills anyway. I flash tanks that are sub 10% and nothing else. If your dps is going to die and I don't have time for a GHeal, well then they fucked up and it's not my problem. I don't oom myself for baddies for three reasons: 1) If I oom at 20% because I healed people inefficiently that stood in bad shit too long, we still wipe. 2) The person standing in the shit causing me to be inefficient will likely drain more of my mana later on the same issue. 3) If dps die because they fucked up, they tend to learn faster and recognize it as a mistake than if your healer ooms 3 minutes down the road.

There are a few other key things to note about why you're going oom. One is are your other healers do their jobs correctly? If you heal efficiently but your other 2 healers are burning fast garbage heals and make you carry the healing long-term then that's why you're ooming too. Don't be that guy and make sure your other healers are that guy. Healer imbalances make a rather large difference now that mana matters. If you're doing 13k HPS and the other guys are doing 6k ans 5k, then there's only two problems: 1) You are sniping heals too quickly and not being efficient and allowing the others to help. 2) They are being inefficient and oomed themselves early on in the fight and had to take it slow at the end, making your HPS jump up a fuckton to pick up their slack.

Also, GHeal is fairly efficient. It burns more mana per second, but in terms of healing per mana is about 80-90% as efficient as Heal. My top end efficiency for Heal is about 4.2, while GHeal sits around 3.8. Also, Binding Heal is very efficient for raid healing when you also require the healing, and serendipity is baller.

[GoochamusPrime]

Thanks guys. I typically try to do most of these things, guess I just have to be more efficient mid-combat though. I'll try to let up on the total healing done and allow the other healers to soak up some more (although our meters aren't typically way off. I think I'm usually around 8-9k HPS for most fights, our Pally is the same, and our Shaman is usually 6-7k). But I appreciate the ideas, gotta remember to always pop that Shadowfiend in the beginning (god it's nice for AC [Aegis DPS + DPS on the last boss always helps])