Chimaeron 10 Heroic, no DPS-taunt possible?

[Yagamoth]

Greetings,

I've got one simple question: Is it possible, to reliably kill Chimaeron 10 Heroic without the possibility of a DPS-tank?
Reliably meaning: Without having to hope for a good RNG.

If you don't have a DPS-Character that has a hard-taunt of some sorts, you can't use the commonly used tactics. So I'd like to know, whether there is a good alternative strategy that doesn't rely on luck. Considering:

- The Break-Debuff lasts one minute (60s)
- according to Wowpedia a Feud-phase lasts about 30s
- If you let your Feud-Phase tank keep tanking after the Feud, you do not have the possibility to survive the double slashes without any cooldowns in the next 30s (because the break-debuff lasts this long still)
- Cooldowns are required to survive the Feud phase and external cooldowns are limited
- a pet-maintank is out of question, since he can't keep aggro (same with a healer-MT)

--> a pet-double-slash tank may be the answer? Simply resummon the voidwalker if he dies.. (Note: I don't know whether the voidwalker can actually taunt bosses, neither I know, whether hunter pets can)

If a pet-taunt works, I can go along with it, since it's highly unlikely that you do NOT have a Warlock, Hunter, DPS DK, DPS Paladin, DPS Druid or DPS Warrior in your raid (although possible). However, if pet taunt doesn't work, there has to be another way around the mechanics. I can't imagine Blizzard Developers designing an encounter without testing, so they must have a plan on how to beat it.

So... What's the correct strategy for this? (I'm asking for the correct one, not one that can work if RNG is in our favor or you have one of these 4 taunt-classes as DPS)

edit: I'd be glad if anyone could ask in the US-Forums about whether it's reliably beatable without a DPS-Taunt class. I don't necessarily have to know how, simply that it is would be enough.

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Sidenote: I'm also collecting alternate strategies for other bosses that can work (Mainstream tactics may work, but are not always the best). E.g. Nefarian P2: Ever thought of swimming through the Lava to gather on one platform after beating 2 adds to easily survive crackles? I didn't, but I love such alternate tactics (PM me if you got something like this )

[Deleted]

Yes the pet taunt does work

[Yagamoth]

Ok, is there any kill-video out there using a pet-taunt?
Further, is it a hard-taunt or a soft-taunt? (permanent or temporary?)

[Hotcandy]

you have to eat one double strike with 4 breaks to do this with 2 tanks... no pet taunts, no cardboard assasin. You can survive it with trinket+armor pot+minor cooldown.

This was our server first with a prot paladin and prot warrior 354ish gear no extra taunts. no plate dps for break tanking.

youtube.com/watch?v=tCogye31Mzk

[Yagamoth]

you have to eat one double strike with 4 breaks to do this with 2 tanks... no pet taunts, no cardboard assasin. You can survive it with trinket+armor pot+minor cooldown.

- Let's consider this: Our tank has about 170k HP --> The first hit has to be 160k or lower
- A normal Hit from Chimaeron does about 130k damage according to Wowpedia
- one stack of Break adds 25% extra damage --> 4 Stacks = 100% extra damage
- To bring a 260k damage hit down to 160k you need at least ~40% damage reduction
- Does every tank have a cooldown reduction of that much? I can imagine a paladin with perfect avoid (he doesn't get hit normally, at worst the damage is blocked) can survive it. But what about the other tanks?


It's true, you probably have a minor cooldown available. But you definitifely need the major to survive the Feud. But is it reliable?

At least it's good to know, that it's always "only" one double slash after each Feud.

edit: Actually I didn't think this through: Does the Feud-Tank have 4 stacks by that time?

[Hotcandy]

. Most tanks have 50-60% physical damage reduction, so even if Chimaeron is hitting 100% harder the armor mitigation stays the same. From my experience Chimaeron is hitting from 180-210 with 4 stacks up.

Let me clarify something also. When you're doing the fight 2 tanks you have them alternating feuds with something like this.

Tank 1 is break tank
Tank2 is DA tank.

The tank doing DA always tanks the next feud so he has 0 breaks on him.

After the feud tanks reverse roles, but your DA tank will still have 4 breaks on the first DA, BUT the bot is up so he only needs to mitigate 20-30% of the first hit, shield block, armor potion, trinket, minor cooldown (DK bone armor, barkskin, etc) will survive this. If you're geared enough you can just straight eat it and not die.

For feuds You need a 40+% damage reduction on DA or you're dead 80% of the time, because youll mos tlikely we have 1 break on you by the time DA hits.

We did it last week with a DK in ilvl349 gear and a Druid in 359 and we never have tank gibs in 10man anymore.

This is 100% viable and I don't know why so many guilds feel the need for a break tank or 3 tanks (looking at you 25mans), or a LoH rotation.

[Yagamoth]

Well, according to wowhead and wowpedia this is incorrect:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82881

But I'll double check it next time when we are there.. and:

edit: Actually I didn't think this through: Does the Feud-Tank have 4 stacks by that time?

edit: But thank you for pointing that out. It is indeed not as dire as I assumed at first.
edit2: On another note, I think intervene from a hunter pet is a viable option aswell.

[Hotcandy]

check my edited post I spoke wrongly. Doing this with 2 tanks you will encounter 2 problems.

1: Like I said earlier, your DA tank will have 4 stacks of break, but the bot will be up so he needs to survive ONE 180-210k hit which is very manageable using small coodlowns.

2: If Chimaeron is an ass and does feuds back to back your tank will ENTER feud with 4 breaks for ONLY ONE HIT. You need to pop an early cooldown for this. It'll be a 180-210k hit like before except you're tanking a feud so we usually have our tank walk in with 2 cooldowns (barskin, Frenzies Rejuv).

If you don't have back to back feuds you don't need to worry about 2.

[Deleted]

This is 100% viable and I don't know why so many guilds feel the need for a break tank or 3 tanks (looking at you 25mans), or a LoH rotation.

So what do you do when the feuds come 30 secs after each other? There will always be break on both tanks, so where is the reliability in this?

Edit: just read your last post.

[Hotcandy]

I would encourage any guild to go with what they think will work for them, but i also know some guilds don't have access to dps break tanks or pet tanks. I'm just putting out it out there that's it very possible since we've been doing it for 4 weeks with undergeared tanks certain weeks.

[Yagamoth]

check my edited post I spoke wrongly. Doing this with 2 tanks you will encounter 2 problems.

1: Like I said earlier, your DA tank will have 4 stacks of break, but the bot will be up so he needs to survive ONE 180-210k hit which is very manageable using small coodlowns.

2: If Chimaeron is an ass and does feuds back to back your tank will ENTER feud with 4 breaks for ONLY ONE HIT. You need to pop an early cooldown for this. It'll be a 180-210k hit like before except you're tanking a feud so we usually have our tank walk in with 2 cooldowns (barskin, Frenzies Rejuv).

If you don't have back to back feuds you don't need to worry about 2.

Well, if it's 1) it has to be the case as you said, that it's an armor reduction (other than the sources stated ^^). Otherwise minor CDs won't be enough ( + Last stand or something similar should work).

If it's 2) it's sadly not reliable at all o..o... I wouldn't mind the first problem as you have various options of working around this. But back to back Feuds are really a killer, since you can't use minor cooldowns then AND for the first double slash.

edit: Ah, I guess the wowpedia value is on non-tanks? But the cardboard assassin-idea is intriguing

edit2:

I would encourage any guild to go with what they think will work for them, but i also know some guilds don't have access to dps break tanks or pet tanks. I'm just putting out it out there that's it very possible since we've been doing it for 4 weeks with undergeared tanks certain weeks.

I know that it can work. But I'd like to make it reliable without RNG ^^

[Hotcandy]

Bottom line for feuds is that you need 40%+ DMG reduction for double strike during feud. You only get 1 Double Strike per feud.

Here is how we did our rotation this week.

First Feud was Guardian Angel.
Second Feud was Ice Bound Fortitude
Third Feud was Survival Instincts
Fourth Feud was Guardian Angel
Fifth Feud was Barskin/Last Stand

This isn't counting Any Barskins any vamp bloods, any bone armor, and paladin sacs. So you definitely have tons of cooldowns to throw around for back to back feuds. Also for us we push over the boss 70% of the time in fourth feud and the rest in fifth.

You're also forgetting that the feud tank is the next break tank and not the next DA tank, so minor cooldowns will ALWAYS be up for back to back feuds AND the (1) DA with 4 breaks.

[Yagamoth]

I didn't forget that, but if you say you need a minor cooldown if you still have Break-Stacks for the first hit, then that cooldown won't be up for the next "first double attack"... Ok, you can then have simply the current tank still tanking with minor CDs... But his minor won't be up already because he used it on another first double attack after Feud... this doesn't quiet work in my head o..o

Well, you are using IBF 3 tanks according to your cooldowns ^^

edit: Ok... Guardian Angel is probably the Holy Priest skill o.o... External CDs are there to use, we have one after all

[Malefic]

As I posted in another thread, Voidwalker taunt.

Use two tanks. Tank A and Tank B.

Tank A is your P1 break stacker, just keep him above 10k HP, whilst keeping Tank B topped. Tank B is your double attack soaker, doesn't need explaining, soak double attacks.

Rinse and repeat this until you have your first Feud. (We use a Voidwalker for this (Not sure what others use, maybe a Hunters pet)) Your double attack tank, ie Tank B tanks Chimaeron during Feud. He can take the normal melee hits not a problem, if he is dying from a single hit then its a gear issue or your healers are not topping him quick enough. As soon as Double Attack buff is on the boss, use the Voidwalker to taunt the boss. The Voidwalker will die and take both the hits from the Double Attack, then your Tank B can continue doing his thing during the Feud. The second Double Attack doesn't come since it comes at the same time as his Massacre.

At this point Tank A still has break, however tanking roles have switched around now. Tank B is now your break tank, keep him above 10k and Tank A is your double attack soaker, when the first Double Attack buff comes your Tank A will still have 4 stacks of break, inbetween the Void originally dying and now your Warlock should have summoned a new one, again use the Voidwalker taunt on this Double Attack and soak it again. By the time he double attacks again Tank A will have lost break so can soak the double attacks easily.

This tactic only requires 2 tanks with no DPS Cheesy Tanking or Stacking Break.

The tactic is repeated after each Feud, with the Void taking the Double Attack during every Feud and the first one after every Feud. With your tanking roles alternating after each Feud.

[Hotcandy]

If Chimaeron does back to back feuds and you have to pop a cooldown right when you walk in to eat that first melee hit, you'll have another 75s (worst case) before you have to pop a minor cooldown for the DA with 4 breaks.

Feuds = 30s
Time between Massacres = 30s

His pattern is very predictable. He will always do Melee///Melee///DA///Melee/Melee///Massacre/// repeat


worldoflogs[dot]com/reports/rt-bdf2kewxt0owevuf/sum/damageDone/?s=3626&e=4073

Here's the log for this week.
I hope it helps, and I'm sorry I don't have more insight on have pet taunts, and other strategies to tank breaks.

[Yagamoth]

@Malefic: I think Voidwalker is cheesy

However, thank you for your responses. I doubt there are too many raids that do NOT have any of these classes to actually pull that off. (Well, the DPS would consist of Mage, Rogue, Shadow Priest Shaman to be unable to do any of these tricks)

[Malefic]

@Malefic: I think Voidwalker is cheesy

However, thank you for your responses. I doubt there are too many raids that do NOT have any of these classes to actually pull that off. (Well, the DPS would consist of Mage, Rogue, Shadow Priest Shaman to be unable to do any of these tricks)

I wouldn't say its cheesy imo, I would say it is something that definitely falls into the ' clever use of game mechanics ' bag. Thats ofcourse a matter of opinion, something we're all entitled to.

[Yagamoth]

Please Don't misunderstand. I don't mind using things that are generally considered "cheesy" - because I don't care enough about the general thoughts

[reflection]

you definitely need 3 tanks... well 2 tanks and 1 player (or pet if it has enough aggro) who can taunt (his def stats don't matter).

double hit with 4 breaks is impossible. I only had one stack and with shield wall active I still got two hit for 100k -> dead. Nobody can heal in between. If you've bad luck the debuff won't run out between two foids. Then you've got a problem.

We use warri and dk tank + retri or dps warri

[Hotcandy]

did you read any of the discussion or look at the video of my guild doing it 4 weeks ago severely undergeared with 2 tanks?

Also you should never be doing feud with a tank that has more than one break, that is insta death. But you don't need more than 2 tanks doing break and you'll never have someone with breaks tanking a feud if you're half decent unless (they'll drop off right after first melee if you get back-to-back feuds)