Boomkin DPS question

[Eightballs]

Alright so I regularly keep up with the forums, and regularly check the sticky here and EJ, but i've got a few questions. I feel like i may be misreading or overlooking a few things when it comes to my rotation or even my talents/glyph setup. Lets assume we wipe, so i start a fight off at -0- energy and choose to go lunar first. So, i IS/MF, starsurge and wrath up to 100. I use balance tracker, so as I see my tracker hit lunar eclipse, I IS then MF. Right now i have IS hitting JUST before the eclipse procs (in that split second before starfire or wrath make contact) so i'm assuming only my moonfire/sunfire is getting the benefit of NG. Should I just cast another wrath/starsurge/starfire while i wait for my eclipse to proc, and THEN dot?

As of right now i can get from lunar-solar with my dots falling off just about one cast away from solar so i just wait to redot when my eclipse hits. But in solar, I sometimes get just over halfway before my dots fall off. Should i refresh before my solar runs out? Or just refresh once they fall off? I normally have my starfall timed to come up right when i hit lunar, i use starsurge when its off cd, and always use SS when it procs.
My stats:
SP: 6601
Haste: 15.32% (not in MK)
Hit: 16.36% (I realize i'm not perfectly hit capped. If you think this should be higher then by all means tell me)
Crit: 16.83%
Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tball/advanced

Here's a WoL from tonights raid. Cleared 6/6 in BWD. Link: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/8zdtx...um/damageDone/

I'm not bit*hing about comparing myself to other top dps boomkins on WoL, as i'm always used for innervates/CR's so obviously some time is taken away from my dps. But i just feel like with my gear, i should be pulling a substantialy higher amount of dps.

[Wellko]

I refresh my my dots everytime i get eclipse cause of the hastebuff, pushing usually 17k+ dps on bosses

[Phoenixblade]

In answer to your first question, you should hardcast your next nuke while waiting for the server to register your Eclipse proc. Also, it is important to understand that once the server has registered your eclipse, the first DoT you cast will trigger Nature's Grace, but not benefit from it. For this reason, it is important to cast Insect Swarm before Moon/Sunfire. Moon/Sunfire deal more damage in both eclipse states so it is better to have them benefit from NG rather than IS. It has been asked whether or not it is worth casting IS twice to gain the benefit of NG, but I believe it isn't a DPS gain to do so.

To answer your second question. You should refresh your DoTs when they fall off (or preferably just before the last tick to maintain true 100% uptime - at most you might want to wait 1 cast to proc eclipse before refreshing). Wellko isn't right to refresh his DoTs immediately when he procs Eclipse - this is in fact a DPS loss - especially if you are refreshing dots with a considerable duration left. As long as you refresh your DoTs before EXITING the Eclipse , you will still gain a set of Eclipse amped DoTs and the benefit of 15's secs of NG.

Anyway - hope this helped. Best thing I can recommend is to read Calculated's page here about all things Boomkin - really great info that I suggest you read to fully understand the mechanics

intent-kt.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2288

Good Luck

[Cruth]

Alright so I regularly keep up with the forums, and regularly check the sticky here and EJ, but i've got a few questions. I feel like i may be misreading or overlooking a few things when it comes to my rotation or even my talents/glyph setup. Lets assume we wipe, so i start a fight off at -0- energy and choose to go lunar first. So, i IS/MF, starsurge and wrath up to 100. I use balance tracker, so as I see my tracker hit lunar eclipse, I IS then MF. Right now i have IS hitting JUST before the eclipse procs (in that split second before starfire or wrath make contact) so i'm assuming only my moonfire/sunfire is getting the benefit of NG. Should I just cast another wrath/starsurge/starfire while i wait for my eclipse to proc, and THEN dot?

No. Don't cast Starsurge when you are 1/2 spells away from an eclips. Starsurge is not an filler.

[Sysunia]

Ok first get the hit cap its there for a reason and its not realy that hard. You got 1676 hit atm to get over the hit cap reset your main hand - 38hit = 1638 reset your wrists you get +50 hit = 1688 and reset your gloves + 59 hit = 1747. 5 points above the hit cap is a realy good place to beyou can probably do it in amy difrent ways but this would be the fastes imo.

Next thing you should reforge to hit not spirit and reforging hit to spirit is totaly stiupid. Spirit does not give any mana regen in combat only out of comabt, so if you dont have a resto offspec (and your armory shows you dont) you dont want spirit, the diffrence is that hit incereases hit chance of your trees and spirit doesnt thats why hit>spirit.

Next thing on your neck you reforge mastery to haste, when you have crit on that item wich is a weeker stat than mastery. Our stats go in order Hit to cap=>Int=>Haste=>Mastery=>Crit so you should always reforge the weakest stat on an item in the strongest

Your build and prime glyphs look ok, i wouldnt take glyph of focus the dmg increase is just not worth the mobility you lose, id take innervate if you cast them on your helars or monsoon if you dont have mana problems.

And about your rotation... get your t11 gloves as soon as possible! I was stuck on gloves chest patns for like 6 weeks it hurts my moonkin heart to see you with shoulders and without 4p T11!!! When you get your 4p you get a new rotation that is explained in the sticky here on druid forums. That should aswer your questions about reaplying dots.

All in all your dps in the logs is not bad but it could be much higher.

[ymmv]

all timed to come up right when i hit lunar, i use starsurge when its off cd, and always use SS when it procs.
My stats:
SP: 6601
Haste: 15.32% (not in MK)
Hit: 16.36% (I realize i'm not perfectly hit capped. If you think this should be higher then by all means tell me)
Crit: 16.83%
Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tball/advanced

Get your hit to 17%.

On your shoulders, reforge some of that mastery to hit. On your bracers, reforge mastery to haste and that will also free up some hit (spirit).

Remember Int>Hit/Spirit>Haste>Mastery>Crit.

[Deleted]

just checking out your guilds fury warrior there Xirus and why is he sitting on 38/35 expertise just something i thought i should point out...

[Blizzyb]

A really big upgrade would be to replace the Stump of Time with a DMC:Volcano. Not sure how much gold you have, but they've dropped considerably on my realm, pricing out around 15k or less. If you were to pick up that trinket (and I strongly suggest it), you can reforge some hit/spirit from other pieces.

It's really nitpicking to talk about hit vs spirit on dps, so I won't, but it doesn't make much sense to go from hit -> spirit in a reforge. Like Sysunia stated, since you don't have a resto spec, if you're going to spirit for resto, you have to go back to town anyways to respec, just add that to your list when/if necessary (it's only 100g max).

Above and beyond that, your gear is much better than mine, but I don't feel like you're maxing you dps for what you have. The "rotation" (priority system, but that doesn't sound as good) isn't difficult, so I'm guessing the problem lies more in your handling of the fight mechanics. The best thing I know to do is to compare you to myself (since I know exactly how I play) and see what I can find. Looking over your Atramedes fight (it's one of the more movement heavy fights, so I like to use it to really help people learn how to handle all of that movement), this is what I find:

Eightball's Spells Cast: (source)
Moonfire: 78 (177 ticks)
Sunfire: 31 (76 ticks)
Starfire: 38
Wrath: 48
Starsurge: 22
Insect Swarm: 181 ticks
Starfall: 23 stars

My Spells Cast: (source)
Moonfire: 44 (185 ticks)
Sunfire: 21 (66 ticks)
Starfire: 41
Wrath: 59
Starsurge: 29
Insect Swarm: 240 ticks
Starfall: 60 stars

Comparing those, you cast:
77% more Moonfire ( but 5% less ticks)
48% more Sunfire (15% more ticks)
8% less Starfire
19% less Wrath
24% less Starsurge
25% less Insect Swarm Ticks
62% LESS Starfall stars (almost 4 casts worth)

Total spell comparison:
You had 674 sources of damage (direct damage + ticks) and I had 751 sources of damage.
A little less than 10% less "sources of damage" than me.

Now, keep in mind that your fight was 5% longer than mine, so that inflates the numbers even more.

I didn't do all this math to make myself feel better or make you feel bad, I did this to show you that you have a great area to improve your dps! The #1 rule of ranged dps is ABC (always be casting), so make sure you're always casting. In order to simultaneously obey the #1 rule of raiding (don't stand in fire), you need to be working those instants. I see you've got a good number of moonfire and sunfires cast, so that doesn't look like the problem. What I then have to think is that you're moving too much.

Instead of moving 5-10 yards away from the pulsating circles that come shooting out of the boss, try to move 1-2 yards away. The more time you can sit still, the more time you get to cast direct damage spells and move that eclipse bar. The more eclipse bar movement, the more nature's grace buffs you get, the more haste and more "sources of damage" you're able to create.

Also, your starfall amount is awfully low. If you're waiting on lunar everytime before you cast it, don't. Especially in a movement intense fight like this, you're not going to be able to move that bar nearly as fast as you need to in order to use starfall solely in lunar, so cast it on cooldown (unless you're 1-2 casts away or something).

In the air phase, try to be in an eclipse stat, preferably solar so both dots are amped. But MF/SF as you're moving, but if you get a second, stop and cast a quick nuke. Again, it's all about moving that eclipse bar.

That's just one example of all the things I think of in a particular fight. Each fight is different and requires a great deal of strategy to absolutely max your dps. Sorry for the massive post, but hopefully I've given you enough ammo to bump that dps up a couple 1000. Cheers!

[zearrow]

i have a question. I do my rotation right and everything, but i reforge my haste to the point where i get my 11th tick with my MF.. i know im supposed to reforge all crit/mastery to haste but when i do i lose ~3k dps. with my current stats and gear i can pull incredibly high numbers depending on the fight, but when i throw everything into haste (after being hit capped) i lose so much dps

edit: guess i didnt have an actual question lol sorry

[Eightballs]

Awesome, i'm glad i got so many responses.

@Phoenix: That's what i thought. I had the IS then MF/SF correct, but i was casting the IS before the eclipse procced. For refreshing dots, this means that i won't be refreshing the dots every fresh eclipse? Just make sure they get on before the eclipse is gone?

@Sysunia: I actually just saw some of that hit>spirit earlier today, i'll be changing it soon. I wonder if i could benefit more with glyph of starfire or wrath over starsurge? I'll be getting my 4p after tonights raid, so i know my rotation will be changed. I actually have glyph of focus because on nearly all fights I have to be close to the boss anyway, it also helps to not aggro the adds on nef. I guess its just a preference thing.

@Kung: hahaha thank you, and i'll let him know.

@BlizzyB: I actually don't have the gold to get DMC, otherwise i would. I know how good it is haha, i've wanted DMB:V for a while. The atramades fight was actually an embarassing screw up on my part...we were taking our break and messing around with love fool stuff, and i never re-equipped my OH haha. But regardless, those actual numbers probably wouldn't have changed that much. I guess with all the movement in these fights i should try and get the lavawalker on my boots ASAP. Faster movement=more casting. I usually do wait for lunar and i need to get out of this habit. This is why i'm thinking of changing the glyph of starsurge to wrath or starfire, what do you think? I'll be getting my 4p tonight or tomorrow, and i read it tends to work against glyph of starsurge. The long post actually really helped, i appreciate you taking the time to do that.
And looking at those numbers again, it gets me wondering. What's your haste at? I'm confused how i could be getting so many less ticks than you. I have to assume that it's me not keeping full uptime on my dots. For instance, your IS got 59 more ticks than me.

Also @Pheonix: Assuming i refresh dots at the start of lunar eclipse, I can make it to ~1 cast to solar before my dots fall off. Making it from solar-lunar is a whole different story though. Lets say i get to about halfway between 0-100 to lunar, and refresh then. That means I'll hit lunar with just over half duration left on my dots. But i should wait to refresh once they are ~1 second from falling OR before i exit lunar? This kind of worries me because i'm then not getting nature's grace until i refresh my dots again, and not at the beginning of an eclipse..and with the long starfire time without nature's grace or a haste buff, wouldn't this cause less eclipses? I guess i'll have to do some dummy fighting to really work on this.

[Calculated]

Many of the answers you are looking for are in my guide that Phoenix linked (or in my sig below).

[Blizzyb]

I usually do wait for lunar and i need to get out of this habit. This is why i'm thinking of changing the glyph of starsurge to wrath or starfire, what do you think? I'll be getting my 4p tonight or tomorrow, and i read it tends to work against glyph of starsurge. The long post actually really helped, i appreciate you taking the time to do that.
And looking at those numbers again, it gets me wondering. What's your haste at? I'm confused how i could be getting so many less ticks than you. I have to assume that it's me not keeping full uptime on my dots. For instance, your IS got 59 more ticks than me.

Waiting for lunar isn't a terrible habit, but like I said, if you're unable to move your eclipse bar much because you're avoiding mechanics (flight phase), you'll need to bite the bullet to prevent it from being on CD too long.

You definitely want to be going to Starfire glyph at 4pt11, but I hear it's even a dps increase now. I'll be doing more testing on that (I'm on 2p atm) soon to see if I like it. Calculated has a great video guide of the rotation for the 4pt11 change.

My haste is 16.33% compared to your 15.73%. That could explain more of the damage sources that I mentioned, but if you look at the uptimes of our dots for that one particular fight:

Blizzy: 97.9% uptime on IS (6mins and 8secs)
98.4% uptime on MF+Sunfire

Eightballs: 72.9% uptime on IS (4mins and 49secs)
97.4% uptime on MF+Sunfire

That's a big difference on the IS. Just be more focused on keeping the dots up, especially during movement, and you should see an increase from that alone. Try to find more time to stand still and nuke and you'll see even more dps from there.

Glad I could help, bud.

[Eightballs]

Awesome. Thanks so much for the input everyone!
Calc, i'm raiding atm but i'll check it out during our break and reply if I have any further questions. Thanks again!

[Dreyen]

To all those who said you need hit for treants not to miss.. I have 0 hit on my gear, all spirit, and they never missed for an entire 4hours long raid.

[Eightballs]

So i switched our glyph of starsurge for glyph of starfire...and made perfectly sure to keep uptime on dots as much as possible..here's my result
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/awcvs...um/damageDone/

Thanks to all those who helped.

@Dreyen: Treants need hit...its a fact. So either you got lucky, or you're mislead.

[Blizzyb]

Those are some impressive numbers, my friend! Great work!

[Palegod]

So i switched our glyph of starsurge for glyph of starfire...and made perfectly sure to keep uptime on dots as much as possible..here's my result
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/awcvs...um/damageDone/

Thanks to all those who helped.

@Dreyen: Treants need hit...its a fact. So either you got lucky, or you're mislead.

Are you double-dotting on V&T? Based on the spell breakdown I'm guessing no, or at least not a lot. I think you could easily catch those hunters if you did more.

[Dayl]

The only thing I can add here is that I have noticed that when starting a fight with -0- energy the arrow is facing neither way. When i cast starsurge as my first casted spell the arrow moves towards the sun. However, it is still not pointing either way. Upon casting either wrath of starfire, its free to move either way, regardless of where it is on the bar. This seems to me like its a bug and im not sure if its just me its happening to. Some confirmation on that would be great

The main point is that starsurge, for me, pushes towards the sun so it is far quicker to use starfire first than wrath to gain the first eclipse.

[Eightballs]

Yeah I do occasionally but not as much as I should. Sometimes it's tough once valiona goes up, since she(or he) can be on the opposite side of the room. I'll have to pay more attention to it next week. Thanks for the tip.

[Blizzyb]

The only thing I can add here is that I have noticed that when starting a fight with -0- energy the arrow is facing neither way. When i cast starsurge as my first casted spell the arrow moves towards the sun. However, it is still not pointing either way. Upon casting either wrath of starfire, its free to move either way, regardless of where it is on the bar. This seems to me like its a bug and im not sure if its just me its happening to. Some confirmation on that would be great

The main point is that starsurge, for me, pushes towards the sun so it is far quicker to use starfire first than wrath to gain the first eclipse.

I wouldn't say that this is a bug. I just see it as you're in a neutral state, not locked into either eclipse and not required to head in a certain direction. When that's the case, I generally dot first, cast a wrath, then starsurge and that will start my bar going towards a lunar eclipse. I'll usually save starfall until I get to the lunar eclipse and then I'm popping starfall, my engineering gloves, etc. Maybe it's not ideal, but I haven't read anything to the contrary.