Assasination rogues and prepoting

[jtstormrage]

Because pots are expensive, I don't use them unless I'm in a boss fight. At that point, I use a macro to cast Vendetta, blow my trinket(s) and use a pot all at once. Every time Vendetta comes up (2 mins), I know I can use another pot, so I hit that macro again. I don't have "use" trinkets in both slots, but I don't want to have to put a trinket in a specific slot just to use it, so I keep my macro as below:

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/use Potion of the Tol'Vir
/use 13
/use 14

As for the question of "when" to use it: I open with Garrote, then immediately run this macro.

Hahaha we are talking about prepotting /facepalm

[kildal]

/use potion of the tol'vir
/cast stealth

I use this macro, no need to wait for 4.1 to use it as one mentioned, you just stay at close range of the boss by your tank and use it out of stealth, tott the tank and sprint in then open with garrote and proceed as normal.

I don't like having sprint in the macro, as it might not always be optimal to use sprint at the start of the fight, for instance on nefarian i used to be able to sprint before pull then have sprint ready for when we switch dps to nef, but now our dps is better so i just open without sprint and save it for when we're gonna switch instead.

To directly answer the op, the math to find out which is of your options is better is too advanced for myself (because of rng), but it's basicly a question of how much time of your potion is spent before attacking compared to the dammage lost of not opening with garrote. Maybe it's worth it up to 5 secconds of your potion, but i would assume less.

I see some rogues do it completly wrong though and stealthing using the pot then run at the boss losing both overkill time, pot time and can't open with garrote :P

[Zogrim]

#showtooltip potion of the tol'vir
/use potion of the tol'vir
/cast stealth
/cast sprint

I'd either recommend to put tricks on focus target into that macro or leave it out entirely since you might want to trick different players at the start of an encounter.

However, push macro, run behind enemy and open the encounter with about ~1sec of the potion lost. works w/ every encounter. On conclace fo the four winds you can even leave sprint away and stand behind them (unstealthed) before the encounter starts --> no loss of time + sprint saved. but that's kind of obvious.

[Mikki1664]

Second pot is used for Mut at less than 35%, when Hero is up (unless some mechanic moves Hero) while all things are popped.

I dont have a Walk Back button. S key is now my PROC button. I only use it as Hero is popped to pop everything that is useable. OFC Vendetta is used in fights at different points depending on mechanics and Hero time. But always available for when Hero pops.

I prepot On 2 of the countdown, pop invis and sprint. I will now bind the macro above to Q to make it easier. Thanks.

And for the record. Why would you wait for TotT untill after the pull? I always put it on tank before the pull and before i pop my put so the energy has regened. I dont use the Glyph and Tricks the feral in my guild as his DPS is insane.

[Curado]

Use this macro and put it on your bar somewhere. You can use it to prepot during your tanks countdown to pull, and to pot during bloodlust.

/use potion of the tol'vir
/cast stealth

DO NOT use this macro or listen to this guy, hes got it all wrong. You don't want to blow your pot until lust.

Because pots are expensive, I don't use them unless I'm in a boss fight. At that point, I use a macro to cast Vendetta, blow my trinket(s) and use a pot all at once. Every time Vendetta comes up (2 mins), I know I can use another pot, so I hit that macro again. I don't have "use" trinkets in both slots, but I don't want to have to put a trinket in a specific slot just to use it, so I keep my macro as below:

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/use Potion of the Tol'Vir
/use 13
/use 14

As for the question of "when" to use it: I open with Garrote, then immediately run this macro.

[Unrully]

Second pot is used for Mut at less than 35%, when Hero is up (unless some mechanic moves Hero) while all things are popped.

I dont have a Walk Back button. S key is now my PROC button. I only use it as Hero is popped to pop everything that is useable. OFC Vendetta is used in fights at different points depending on mechanics and Hero time. But always available for when Hero pops.

I prepot On 2 of the countdown, pop invis and sprint. I will now bind the macro above to Q to make it easier. Thanks.

And for the record. Why would you wait for TotT untill after the pull? I always put it on tank before the pull and before i pop my put so the energy has regened. I dont use the Glyph and Tricks the feral in my guild as his DPS is insane.

You don't have a walk back key?

Somehow I think you take a ton of damage in raids, or you have your back turned toward the boss a lot to run away from stuff. I use my S key -constantly-. Statue melee = dead melee.

[Sesshou]

You don't have a walk back key?

Somehow I think you take a ton of damage in raids, or you have your back turned toward the boss a lot to run away from stuff. I use my S key -constantly-. Statue melee = dead melee.

Hmm you backpedal out of stuff? Somehow I think you take a ton of damage in raids... backpedaling is far slower than strafing. I can strafe in whatever direction you backpedal at full run speed. Now I do have S bound to backpedal, but I don't use that for say getting out of a fire... I hate it when I see people do that... its almost as bad as watching some one stand in stuff, keyboard turn to face out of it and then start moving...

[jazza23]

Wait... Wait... You can turn without your keyboard? Lol joke

[Ligaments]

As has been said, the correct order is prepot (as close as you can cut it) > stealth > sprint (if necessary) > garrote.

An interesting thing to point out is that Chimaeron can be stood near without being pulled, so you can just pot stealth garrote.

---------- Post added 2011-03-04 at 02:38 PM ----------

And for the record. Why would you wait for TotT untill after the pull? I always put it on tank before the pull and before i pop my put so the energy has regened. I dont use the Glyph and Tricks the feral in my guild as his DPS is insane.

The first two GCDs you use on your opener are garrote and snd, neither of which does direct damage (or significant threat) to your target. By using tricks once those two are rolling and you get into the Mut/Envenom rotation, you can more effectively use the 6s window and transfer more threat to your tank.

The difference is slight enough that it usually won't make a difference. The only time I've used this strategy to effect was on pre-nerf Halfus, though it was necessary. We'd tricks the tanks off the pull, only to get a 250% dps increase on halfus seconds later, causing us to blow past our initial transfer aggro, forcing early vanishes. By waiting to transfer threat until we had snd/poisons rolling and a huge damage buff, we got a significantly greater effect from tricks.

EDIT: You should also Glyph your Tricks for sure. The energy it saves you makes up for the reduced buff on your target, and also makes it a much easier ability to weave throughout your rotation.

[ddk]

I would only do this on bosses that I couldn't get close to in stealth before the pull. I think the time wasted trying to time a pot + stealth before being put into combat plus then moving to behind the boss for your garrotte with probably only around 15, or at the very possible best 20, seconds left on the pot isn't worth it versus being already behind the boss and opening immediately with your garrotte as soon as the tank pulls.

Obviously I don't have the math to back me up but I'm willing to bet that there is a significant DPS difference between the two, with opening immediately being the clear-cut winner.

[Deleted]

I have a feeling some people in this thread don't know you can't use more than once potion per fight anymore...

[Synexlol]

I have a feeling some people in this thread don't know you can't use more than once potion per fight anymore...

Pre-potting works the same as always. I have a feeling you either have no idea what pre-potting is or acting like you know stuff.

The idea of pre-potting is to use a pot just before you enter combat, so that it goes on cooldown and you can use another during combat, effectively allowing the use of two pots in a single pull.

[evoslayer]

Your guild should be doing a countdown for a pull, when it reaches 0 and you see the tank headed for the boss, cast tricks prop your potion and stealth, then given the fight either sprint into position or walk, (if you will need sprint soon), get your garrote off, cast mutlate then rupture, if you get a ruthlessness proc cast slice other wise mut again then slice.

Once slice is up

Vendetta, racial/use trinkets, muti up to 4+ cold blood envenom. when overkill runs out immidiately vanish garrote and resume.

That is optimal Rogue opening


I am not sure if it is best to save your second pot for your trinket procs below 35% or during bloodlust, obviously if both will be true at once you should pot during lust

[AceofHarts]

Wrong. Cooldown on pots starts right after you use one. Changed in Cata. If the fight lasts longer than the cd to use another pot, than you can use another one again.

Same with vendetta.

That's pretty much a non issue for raids anyways, you're always going to have time for more than one pot, and it's pretty damn stupid if you're wasting pots in heroics. Totally pointless.

And no you shouldn't waste part of your pot in stealth. Why would you even ask that? Use it after your initial opener with vendetta.

show me the video of you using a potion IN COMBAT and than having the cooldown start right away, once you have used a potion in combat you are done until you leave combat. they made this change at the release of wrath because of rogues chain chugging haste pots in BC on cooldown pretty much, they wanted to cut down on "consumables"

[ddk]

I have a feeling some people in this thread don't know you can't use more than once potion per fight anymore...

Yeah, I was confused about this too because a) I usually stealth as close to the boss as possible, if not behind it, in order to get into position as soon as the tank pulls, and b) I was still thinking old-school before this one-pot per combat nonsense.

What they're getting at, though, is that you pot before entering combat. That way the cooldown ends during combat but isn't considered one of your combat pot uses. At least, I think that's how it works. I'm still trying to retrain myself to do this and haven't managed to get the timing right (always end up in combat before I can restealth).

Personally, as I said above, I still think that if you can get within melee distance of the boss in stealth without aggro, that you're better off.

[Deleted]

Pre-potting works the same as always. I have a feeling you either have no idea what pre-potting is or acting like you know stuff.

The idea of pre-potting is to use a pot just before you enter combat, so that it goes on cooldown and you can use another during combat, effectively allowing the use of two pots in a single pull.

Yes, thanks for the explanation Watson, I know what prepotting is. What I was saying was that I have a feeling that people don't know you can't use a potion more than once per combat, as if they use a potion every minute during the fight. Do you understand what I am saying?

[Synexlol]

Yes, thanks for the explanation Watson, I know what prepotting is. What I was saying was that I have a feeling that people don't know you can't use a potion more than once per combat, as if they use a potion every minute during the fight. Do you understand what I am saying?

I understand but nobody has said anything that suggests that. This entire thread has been about the pros/cons of pre-potting. It has nothing to do with potting twice per combat.

[AceofHarts]

I understand but nobody has said anything that suggests that. This entire thread has been about the pros/cons of pre-potting. It has nothing to do with potting twice per combat.

theres a Con to prepotting? i thought it was a dps increase regardless, yes, you lose SOME pot time. boo hoo.

[Deleted]

theres a Con to prepotting? i thought it was a dps increase regardless, yes, you lose SOME pot time. boo hoo.

Yes, since on most bosses you will have to be further away from the boss on the pull and you lose dps

[Synexlol]

theres a Con to prepotting? i thought it was a dps increase regardless, yes, you lose SOME pot time. boo hoo.

Way to completely miss my point. I never said there was a con. If you actually read the thread, you would see that I already stated what you just said. Idiot.