Haunt, Metamorphosis and Chaos Bolt - Our 31pt-talents

[Xenophane]

Fellow Warlocks,
As you can see from my post count, I don't post much, but I read through here a lot.

After reading the Patch 4.1 intended changes, it seems that we are finally getting some love. Nothing too exciting, true, but it's something in the right track.

Haunt just got a buff, resulting in a minor damage increase and some more self healing. The ability is a perfect 31-talent point imo, with a solid increase (23% when glyphed) to Affliction's DOT damage. Affliction's current 'problem', especially in PVP, is the lack of single-target pressure. Would an increase to the DOT buff portion of the spell, perhaps through a small buff to the glyph help tackle this issue? (Make the glyph increase the DOT potion by, let's say 5-10%, instead of 3%)? Also glad to see an increase to the Affliction passive.

Metamorphosis is in a very good shape at the moment. A solid cooldown, offensive and defensive, fitting the talent tree perfectly too. Can't possibly complain about that.

Chaos Bolt:
Where to start? The ability is kind of lackluster, especially for the final 31-talent point of a tree. The damage it does is basically that of an Incinerate. Nothing exciting or tree-defining about the spell.

Suggestion: Add a secondary effect to the spell. A flat-out damage increase, while appreciated, would probably not do any good. Destruction's damage is already good in PVE, and a small buff to a 12sec CD spell, wouldn't change much.

What about a debuff on the target hit by Chaos Bolt which increases damage taken (by spell X or as a %)? This could act as a cover buff to Immolate too.
Or maybe some sort of direct Immolate dispell protection through Chaos Bolt, in a similar way that UA covers other debuffs.

This secondary effect, while not-game breaking, could add some needed flavour to the spell, and help address some of the issues, especially in PvP, for Destruction.


So what are your thoughts? I would appreciate a clean discussion and constructive criticism, instead of trolling and 'BUT WTF?!! CHASO BOLTZ IS OP ALRAEDY!!'.

Thanks for reading,
Xenophane - Kazzak EU

[Schirmy]

In my wildest dreams, I would love to see Chaos Bolt pierce resilience; would definitely make it a 31-point talent, imo.

[gherkin]

Chaos Bolt triggers Soul Leech, does slightly more damage than an incinerate to an immolated target, and is only restricted by its cooldown. It counters priest shields, blood dk's, paladin mastery, and a few other abilities.

The only thing people constantly bitch about is Immolate lacking dispel protection, and I believe that this is because it is status quo to bitch about it (as well as green fire, rogues, and frost mages). It does not need it, Destruction simply needs to be scaled back from all the PVP limiters placed on it during WOTLK. Too much damage is based on Immolate being up. Too much damage comes from Burning Embers. Too much reliance on the Imp to make it PVP viable. Not mana effective to cast Corruption if its going to be dispelled. Soul Leech is difficult to utilise in PVP.

Chaos Bolt as a 31 pointer is fine, its the talents and glyphs that amplify it that are bad.

[Kawakazi]

Destruction in general does lackluster damage in PvP. Does more than Affliction single target nowadays, but does less relative pressure now than Affliction did single target back in WoTLK.

Basically, Destro needs something more than dispel protection on Immolate.

[Deleted]

Chaos Bolt does twice the damage of an incinerate to an immolated target

Say what? A log for a good destro lock on a simple hc fight: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=4622&e=4901

Avg Incinerate hit: 14485.1
Avg Chaos Bolt hit: 15472.9
Avg Incinerate crit: 33307.8
Avg Chaos Bolt crit: 30393.9

You are usually on spot with pretty much everything about warlocks Gherkin but that is a blatant exaggeration. The shield ignore is also completely non-relevant in PvE. Chaos Bolt is really just a incinerate on a cooldown that procs Soul Leech for a PvE destro lock.

[gherkin]

I'm referring to PVP, but I may have outdated anecdotal evidence. I'll remove it.

[Deleted]

WTB 30% buff to chaos bolt and conflagrate.!

[Basmothel]

For something small to help it help, maybe they should have Chaos Bolt also proc Improved Soul Fire?

Just a small change to ease everyone's life (and give it more synergy with the tree).

[Deleted]

It counters priest shields, blood dk's, paladin mastery, and a few other abilities.

Blood Death Knight's shield works only on physical damage, does nothing at all for magical stuff (sadly)
unless you're talking about Anti Magic Shell, but any DK has that

[Xenophane]

Perhaps the way Gherkin put it sounds better, but in my opinion, it just doesn't cut it. The only real absorption effects are Power Word: Shield and Holy Paladin's mastery effect. Maybe one can mention Anti-Magic Shell and Cloak of Shadows, but they are relatively longer CDs.

Gherkin is probably right about all the bitching going on, but yes, the problem exists. Destro (pvp) requires Immolate being up, and with how dispelling exists now, with all healers having a dispel, its just too easy to get rid of Immolate and screw up a Destro Lock.

[SLhyphy]

Fellow Warlocks,
As you can see from my post count, I don't post much, but I read through here a lot.

After reading the Patch 4.1 intended changes, it seems that we are finally getting some love. Nothing too exciting, true, but it's something in the right track.

Haunt just got a buff, resulting in a minor damage increase and some more self healing. The ability is a perfect 31-talent point imo, with a solid increase (23% when glyphed) to Affliction's DOT damage. Affliction's current 'problem', especially in PVP, is the lack of single-target pressure. Would an increase to the DOT buff portion of the spell, perhaps through a small buff to the glyph help tackle this issue? (Make the glyph increase the DOT potion by, let's say 5-10%, instead of 3%)? Also glad to see an increase to the Affliction passive.

Metamorphosis is in a very good shape at the moment. A solid cooldown, offensive and defensive, fitting the talent tree perfectly too. Can't possibly complain about that.

Chaos Bolt:
Where to start? The ability is kind of lackluster, especially for the final 31-talent point of a tree. The damage it does is basically that of an Incinerate. Nothing exciting or tree-defining about the spell.

Suggestion: Add a secondary effect to the spell. A flat-out damage increase, while appreciated, would probably not do any good. Destruction's damage is already good in PVE, and a small buff to a 12sec CD spell, wouldn't change much.

What about a debuff on the target hit by Chaos Bolt which increases damage taken (by spell X or as a %)? This could act as a cover buff to Immolate too.
Or maybe some sort of direct Immolate dispell protection through Chaos Bolt, in a similar way that UA covers other debuffs.

This secondary effect, while not-game breaking, could add some needed flavour to the spell, and help address some of the issues, especially in PvP, for Destruction.


So what are your thoughts? I would appreciate a clean discussion and constructive criticism, instead of trolling and 'BUT WTF?!! CHASO BOLTZ IS OP ALRAEDY!!'.

Thanks for reading,
Xenophane - Kazzak EU

So, let me get this right... You think that adding straight damage to Chaos Bolt would throw off PvE... yet you want it to place a debuff on the target that increases damage by X%? That's the same thing, it's just not rolled into Chaos Bolt. Personally, as far as PvP changes go, and with CB having a 12/10 second CD, I don't think it's too much to ask for Chaos Bolt to be a guaranteed crit. Crit after all is the lifeblood of Destro in PvP and many fights are won due to clutch crits. However, in PvP right now we are sitting around 12% crit, this isn't enough to make Destro viable. If Chaos Bolt was a guaranteed crit, we would have a great nuke that we could tie in with Shadowfury/conflag/insta soul fire to string some damage together.

TL;DR: Make Chaos Bolt a guaranteed crit, in PvP it only hits for about 14-15k anyways, with 100% crit, it would actually function like a nuke as opposed to a wet noodle.

[Xenophane]

It was only an idea, of a secondary effect to chaos bolt. In my opinion, the absorption penetration is just 'yawn', and also mostly useless in PvE. Chaos Bolt being a 100% crit would definetly make it worth casting, but perhaps its a bit too much. It also doesn't solve the dispelling issues.

But like it is now, Chaos Bolt is just an incinerate with a different spell animation (Wohoo, it's green!!), that gives us some mana and health back. A little spice up wouldn't hurt it

[SLhyphy]

Neither does adding another trash debuff when they just spam dispells. Immo needs a dispell protection like, Conflag lights up when Immo is dispelled. As for 100% crit, it wouldn't be too much at all for PvP. Chaos Bolt doesn't hit over 20k in PvP on a resi target, ever. Where numerous classes can already deal that damage in a couple globals. (Im looking at you mages and Spriests, specifically.)


EDIT: To what Gherkin said above about Chaos Bolt being fine, I personally don't like my 31 point talent hitting barely harder than my filler spell. It's a DPS loss to use it in PvE unless you use it perfectly. As far as wrath limiters, I hated it. But it's nothing that some crit can't change.

[krasgoth]

As it is, Chaos bolt is an awful, awful spell, especially for a 31 point talent. Compare it to any other "big hit" in pvp - Ice Lance, Frostbolt, Scourge Strike, Aimed shot, Envenom, Eviscerate, Execute, Star surge, Chimera shot. The list goes on and on, but I never see Chaos bolt hitting for anywhere over 17k in PVP, even in the best conditions, under the best things happening to you.

On the other hand, on 3k+ resilience I see 20k EVERYTHING else as pointed above, and these are just normal spells being used under normal conditions. Except for Chimera shot, nothing else is even a 31 point talent, and chimera *reguarily* crits for 20k+, I've seen a 30k shot to my face with it, it's an instant spell you can use on the move.

On the average, chaos bolt is a shitty spell that hits for 8k on a 12 second cooldown. You honestly may as well just cast an incinerate or move to a better position instead of casting anything at all. In pve, you're better not even using it. Even the glyph has no use for it, making a bad spell have a shorter cooldown doesn't help it out.

[Deleted]

NEW SPELL - Soul Spike
Blasts the target for 1083 to 1143 Shadowfrost damage, but extinguishes your shadow damage-over-time effects from the target in the process.

Soul Spike also increases the critical strike chance of your next Haunt on the target by 30%. Stacks up to 3 times.

Pandemic
Reduces the global cooldown of your Bane and Curse spells by .5 sec.

Your Drain Soul has a 100% chance to refresh the duration of your Unstable Affliction spell when dealing damage on targets below 25% health and when you deal damage with Soul Spike, the cast time of your next Haunt is reduced by 50% lasting 6 sec. Pandemic can stack up to 2 times

^ Worst case scenario.

On the topic of Chaos Bolt - I'd rather they did something a bit more interesting than MOAR DAMAJ PLZ. I'm not well informed of the state of Locks in PvE at the moment, but if they're fine I'd rather they tied Chaos Bolt to Immolate a bit better - perhaps dispelling Immolate reduces the cast time and cooldown of your next Chaos Bolt by 50% or something.

[Archimand]

NEW SPELL - Soul Spike
Blasts the target for 1083 to 1143 Shadowfrost damage, but extinguishes your shadow damage-over-time effects from the target in the process.

Soul Spike also increases the critical strike chance of your next Haunt on the target by 30%. Stacks up to 3 times.

Pandemic
Reduces the global cooldown of your Bane and Curse spells by .5 sec.

Your Drain Soul has a 100% chance to refresh the duration of your Unstable Affliction spell when dealing damage on targets below 25% health and when you deal damage with Soul Spike, the cast time of your next Haunt is reduced by 50% lasting 6 sec. Pandemic can stack up to 2 times

^ Worst case scenario.

On the topic of Chaos Bolt - I'd rather they did something a bit more interesting than MOAR DAMAJ PLZ. I'm not well informed of the state of Locks in PvE at the moment, but if they're fine I'd rather they tied Chaos Bolt to Immolate a bit better - perhaps dispelling Immolate reduces the cast time and cooldown of your next Chaos Bolt by 50% or something.

now where did i saw that spell before .... o yes i remember now

Mind Spike Level 85
12% of base mana 40 yd range
1.5 sec cast
Blasts the target for 1083 to 1143 Shadowfrost damage, but extinguishes your shadow damage-over-time effects from the target in the process.

Mind Spike also increases the critical strike chance of your next Mind Blast on the target by 30%. Stacks up to 3 times.

on the topic we dont need a change to chaos bolt damage but we do need talent for it
Burning Chaos:Sucessful Chaos bolt crit will increase the damage done by your fire spells by X for X seconds

[tilatequila]

Why not make chaos bolt 100% crit if immolation is up on the target? similar to lava burst exept that crits like 10k more lol
the spell also needs to hit alot more. just flat out increase its damage by say 25%
and give it one of these effects
Knockback on hit
reduce healing by 25% for 10seconds upon hitting
give it a mana burn effect
make it stun the target for 2seconds
make it disarm the target - i like this one, would help destro alot against melee.

[sugarfree]

Chaos Bolt triggers Soul Leech, does slightly more damage than an incinerate to an immolated target, and is only restricted by its cooldown. It counters priest shields, blood dk's, paladin mastery, and a few other abilities.

The only thing people constantly bitch about is Immolate lacking dispel protection, and I believe that this is because it is status quo to bitch about it (as well as green fire, rogues, and frost mages). It does not need it, Destruction simply needs to be scaled back from all the PVP limiters placed on it during WOTLK. Too much damage is based on Immolate being up. Too much damage comes from Burning Embers. Too much reliance on the Imp to make it PVP viable. Not mana effective to cast Corruption if its going to be dispelled. Soul Leech is difficult to utilise in PVP.

Chaos Bolt as a 31 pointer is fine, its the talents and glyphs that amplify it that are bad.

I agree with Burning Embers and Imp doing way too much damage contribution for Destruction's dps. Burning Embers is in a way, not making the whole tree about Destruction anymore, it's boring. They just need to transfer some of this damage back to the main nuke spells especially Chaos Bolt.

Chaos bolt needs a damage buff. It only hits slightly higher than Incinerate, but that's about it. For raiders, it's cool and dandy as long as it is worthy of its DPCT but for overall thought, feeling and performance, this spell is really underwhelming.

TL;DR: Incinerate, Chaos Bolt, Conflagrate, Shadowburn, Soul Fire needs to hit harder; gut Burning Embers and Imp to off set the damage buff.

Currently, dispel is pretty much overpowered or we are just underpowered. I mean, healers are already dispelling are MAIN damage source for our main spells to hit "harder" but then again, that "harder" is still pretty much pathetic on all sides. Really really low.

[vkei]

2 words
instant cast

2 more words
instant hit

2 more words for Haunt
instant heal

------
actually Haunt is very good if it cast hit and heal instantly ,
CB is suck since the day it can't kill iceblock-ed mage and bubbled pally , it is now a skill of "give u one more CD to watch" ,
Meta by itself is very good but pls change the mastery

[kosuko]

@Gherkin,
Sure Chaos Bolt nukes through a shield, damaging the target. But it does not remove the shield. If the target has just 1 hp left after your chaos bolt you'll still end up having to nuke the shield with your other spells.

Would it be OP if chaos bolt disspelled 1 buff on the target?

But the PVE problem is still the same: For a 31 point talent it's not only boring, it's even quite bad. The ~200 dps increase is nothing to cheer about. (better than the ~60 a retridin gets, but still)