Haunt, Metamorphosis and Chaos Bolt - Our 31pt-talents

[Jessicka]

I actually think with the new healing and health model it wouldn't be overpowered if it not only broke the shield it penetrated, but also worked on bubble and Iceblock. It really doesn't hit hard enough for the very limited penetration it has right now to be particularly useful for any purpose other than a very limited scope finishing move - which given it's cast and travel time make it not exceptional even in those limited circumstances.

[Deleted]

I think it'd be nice for Chaos Bolt to perhaps extend the duration of ISF rather than proccing it itself as Blizzard clearly wants you to have to cast it. It would mean that you have to recast SF under certain conditions; whether that be the start of the fight, heavy movement etc but when nuking we have a nice quality of life change whilst making Chaos bolt feel a little more important (in PvE).

[Deleted]

I think it'd be nice for Chaos Bolt to perhaps extend the duration of ISF rather than proccing it itself as Blizzard clearly wants you to have to cast it. It would mean that you have to recast SF under certain conditions; whether that be the start of the fight, heavy movement etc but when nuking we have a nice quality of life change whilst making Chaos bolt feel a little more important (in PvE).

I go along with this idea as i believe totally that this will improve the complete flow of the Spec, where as using Soulfire so frequently atm kinda makes it feel segmented.

Agree totally but make it a Prime Glyph change, so we have to glyph for it i reckon, (while that glyph is in place it would also then take away the stress on our Beutiful Soul Shards, i.e we wouldnt have to use them so much for quick ISF.

So to fix this (also along Chaos Bolt lines)

I would have Chaos Bolt be able to use the Soulburn and as they are somewhat limited, (i know you can claim them back but that in itselfs will distrub your rotations etc.) As you are limited to the amount of times you can soulburn a encounter i reckon this shouldnt be a meer inst cast but a straight and exciting Damage Buff,..... Making it more of a tree defining talent and thus solving Chaos Bolt issues in a good way, this could also be written into our talent build so we have to spend points for the priviledge... (damage buff increases with each point we throw on it)

[llcjay1]

I have ranted a little about Chaos Bolt before:

Personally, I think Chaos Bolt is a little overrated. Its in my rotation/priority list but if I happen to miss it and throw another Soul Fire or Incinerate in there instead, I don't feel like I miss much. For a core talent ability for the spec, I think it is a bit under-powered.

Basically, a core, 31 point talent should be an integral part of your rotation and your dps should suffer if you don't use it. If affy doesn't use Haunt or demo doesn't use Meta, they will see a drastic decrease in dps. If I miss chaos Bolt, I don't even notice. I use Elitist Jerks' spell priority list and they put Chaos Bolt only above Shadowburn (sub 20%) and Incinerate. The only reason it is above Incinerate is because of the relatively minor benefits it gives.

[Nicola]

Imo, choasbolt should do double damage on targets that have a absorb effect and also pierce thru immunity effects, giving us a nice counter for ams, cos, iceblock and bubble.
Should teach these bloody paladins bubbling the very last moment and heal / get healed to full hp.
Haunt should be affected by jinx, applying the debuff to all targets within 40y range and increase the effect by an additional 5-10%
Demonform is fine but I'd rather see a dmg reduction instead of armor increase. Also i'd like to see the taunt back and shadowvolley ( wich didn't make it thru wotlk beta)

[gherkin]

To clarify, a 31 pointer is not "core". It is supposed to be highly desirable. In our case, its barely moderately desirable, and you don't have to take the talent point if you don't want to. The requirement is 31 points in your primary tree, not your 31 point talent.

[DotDotDot]

Destro locks dont need buffs in pvp simple, n there in a great place in pve, again simple.
its the frost mages who can blow you up and CC you all day long, the elemental shamans who if u LET them cast they wil blow you up, the fury warrior who can 1 shot you, the rogue who can chain stun you, cloak of shadows vanish n chain stun you again til you dead which needs slightly nerfing.

People being blown up in 5 seconds = stupid gameplay which blizzard are tryin to get away from. Destro locks hit the hard end of it as they were the first to go from that catagory.
Next patch fury warriors burst being nerfed via mastery (no idea if this wil stop them one shotting people, but its a start)
Elemental shamans are weak, you focus them they cant cast they die, easy to avoid there burst in most cases.

Rogues + frost mages are just blizzards best friends so they jus get buffs of course.

Arena was ruined when Wolk came out (not saying arena was the brightest idea in first place either but TBC arena was fun, controlled n required skill), pvp started influencing pve to a large extent, some classes got shafted a lot harder than others.

You cant ask for bufffs to a spec which is already very competative in a pve environment, not the top but competative due to boss mechanics and the tools warlocks hav been given to work with.

[Jessicka]

You cant ask for bufffs to a spec which is already very competative in a pve environment, not the top but competative due to boss mechanics and the tools warlocks hav been given to work with.

The kind of PvP buffs people are asking for for CB aren't the kind of thing that would impact heavily on PvE - breaking/piercing shields properly for example.

At the moment, it doesn't really serve PvP or PvE particularly effectively, and that is the real problem.

[SpacedOut]

How about switching fire+brimstone with ISF in the talent tree, so that ISF is a prereq for chaosbolt, then giving chaos bolt (as has been suggested above) the effect of refreshing ISF? Would somewhat devalue empowered imp and soulburn though I suppose...

[Hellfury]

The chaos bolt could be reworked to be the Immolate dispell protection

example: Your chaos bolt when casted over a immolate leaves a 5sec buff where makes that immolate impossible to be dispelled

[gherkin]

You could swap Soul Swap and Haunt and be at the exact same situation for Affliction. The fact that it is a 31 pointer doesn't matter. What if Shadowburn was the specialization, Conflag was the 31 pointer, and Chaos Bolt was your 11th point?

We should be arguing that the spell and it's amplification by talents is crap, not that because it's located in a "coveted" slot it should be more powerful. If you got Chaos Bolt baseline you should argue the same thing.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 09:41 AM ----------

The chaos bolt could be reworked to be the Immolate dispell protection

example: Your chaos bolt when casted over a immolate leaves a 5sec buff where makes that immolate impossible to be dispelled

imo colossus smash - For the next 3 spells in 6 seconds all of your spells ignore spell resistances. Dispelling this effect causes the dispeller to take 5% more damage per stack dispelled.

[gherkin]

I disagree that other 31 point talents are amazing or that they have to be. Tanking cooldowns should be baseline, but the current setup makes Warriors a little OP vs stunnable clusters of mobs, but weak(er) verses bosses that require multiple cooldowns to survive. Some DPS talents make or break the spec because Blizzard can't make it work in PVE and PVP otherwise, such as Frost, Subtlety, etc.

And for healers, Holy doesn't even need theirs in a good environment, Discipline's is ridiculously OP, Shamans use theirs as baseline, Paladin's completely abuse (intentional or not) their mechanics to make theirs work, and Druids use theirs for massive aoe healing and to set up maintainable Lifeblooms on multiple targets.

When some specs become useless without their 31 point talent, I would argue that the tree and basic spells are simply not sufficient for them to perform well, and thus the 31 pointer becomes a balancing button to compensate for weakness.

[Jessicka]

GC has gone on the record saying that if the 31 pointer was being overlooked, they'd regard the entire talent tree as a failure - I'd say Blizz therefore regard that spot pretty highly.

[Deleted]

Just completely remove Incinerate from talent Fire and Brimstone so that only CB is being effected, making it a bit more important.
In pve destro got more than enough DPS, and in pvp Immolate is most likely dispelled before you land any Incinerates.

[Jaxi]

In my wildest dreams, I would love to see Chaos Bolt pierce resilience; would definitely make it a 31-point talent, imo.

Would you be willing to deal with the ridiculous amount of complaining that would come as a result of this?

[Nebthet]

Would you be willing to deal with the ridiculous amount of complaining that would come as a result of this?

its damage would be absolutely ok, because you know right now it is almost ridiculous compared to what many other classes can do.

[Glnger]

perhaps taking imp soulfire out and ninstead giving the effect with chaos bolt

bam, there we go. no more 2.5 sec cast that is a dps loss other than the 8% buff effect you want before you cast immo/cor/doom. This also makes the short cd of the buff a non-issue if you cast the spell on cooldown

[gherkin]

But then the rotation becomes a cast sequence. Conflag is 8s, Chaos is 12s, Immolate is 14-15. Allow for a bit of a gap, and all i need is:

/castsequence reset=48 [spell sequence]
and I have a single button that I can press forever. I can even make room in it to allow myself to hit an instant.

It needs something that you can't plan around otherwise its boring.

[SLhyphy]

To clarify, a 31 pointer is not "core". It is supposed to be highly desirable. In our case, its barely moderately desirable, and you don't have to take the talent point if you don't want to. The requirement is 31 points in your primary tree, not your 31 point talent.

Well, we certainly aren't going to take Searing Pain, Aftermath or Backlash... Soooo shitty Chaos Bolt it is. We don't really have a choice.

[Boyiee]

I would be happy with chaos bolt giving the 3% raid damage buff that you get from ret/arcane/bm's. It won't affect our damage as destro which is already quite high, so no need for complaining, and it'll make some 10 man groups happier lol.