Enh. Elemental Precision talent question

[Seranov]

I use Reverb because it makes my rotation a lot smoother.

Without it, sometimes I'll be sitting there waiting on all my cooldowns, which then all come up at the same time. At least with Reverb, I can interrupt more often in addition to having fewer dead zones.

That said, I'd totally get 3/3 Ele Precision + 2/2 Reverb + 2/2 Call of Flames if it was possible as Enh. :3

[Acidbaron]

All i can say then something must have been changed, you normally can't solo interrupt arcanotron as explained in my previous post.
However i don't run 10 mans anymore, so it seems a possibility. But bit more then a week ago i couldn't interrupt with another class for that reason as the lock outs didn't cover it.

[Murderdoll]

Well even with Reverb I cannot get all the interupts on Arcanotron. Dunno if it changes on heroic or not or if it changes based on how much you kite him but yeah I didnt see the need for it.

[Omarian]

i take 2 points into reverberation and 1 point into elemental precision for interrupts in heroic raids. :|

As a lot of others already say this is NOT needed. You can easily do this with the CD we got.
This coming from a person who has to do Maloriak Heroic interrupts, and Halfus heroic, and Nefarian. I mad.

[Taurrus]

3 in acuity, 2 in concussion, 2 in call of flame and 3 in elemental precision. Will offer the greatest single target dps increase, some prefer reverberation over 3 points in elemental precision, for either interrupts or shock cd's. That is it in a nutshell, if you lack points to do this you put 2 points in improved shields and improved fire nova, so remove 2 from either you need the least.

Since we are talking about single targeting, then call of flames will only increase searing totem right?
If that is the case, how much percentage we actually get from that totem on a total damage, I mean we don't use lava burst as enhancement right?

[Littlenino]

All i can say then something must have been changed, you normally can't solo interrupt arcanotron as explained in my previous post.
However i don't run 10 mans anymore, so it seems a possibility. But bit more then a week ago i couldn't interrupt with another class for that reason as the lock outs didn't cover it.

Either there's a difference between 10/25 man, which I doubt it since the mechanics should be the exact same on boss fights between 10/25 man, or you're doing something wrong (not trying to be rash, just pointing out the possibility).

All I know is I have 2/2 Reverb, and I solo interrupt Normal 10-man Arcanotron every week my raiding group does it, and not a single cast gets off while I'm doing it. I will say that Wind Shear is not off CD until about ~1/2 way through Arcane Annihilator's cast, but I still have plenty of leeway to get off the Wind Shear for the entire fight.

[Lylyth]

Either there's a difference between 10/25 man, which I doubt it since the mechanics should be the exact same on boss fights between 10/25 man, or you're doing something wrong (not trying to be rash, just pointing out the possibility).

All I know is I have 2/2 Reverb, and I solo interrupt Normal 10-man Arcanotron every week my raiding group does it, and not a single cast gets off while I'm doing it. I will say that Wind Shear is not off CD until about ~1/2 way through Arcane Annihilator's cast, but I still have plenty of leeway to get off the Wind Shear for the entire fight.

That's weird. I noticed recently that WITHOUT Reverb Wind Shear comes off CD right before Arcanotron begins to cast Arcane Annihilation each time. I can easily solo the interrupts as any spec on that fight.

[Littlenino]

That's weird. I noticed recently that WITHOUT Reverb Wind Shear comes off CD right before Arcanotron begins to cast Arcane Annihilation each time. I can easily solo the interrupts as any spec on that fight.

That indeed is weird. I may have exaggerated the "~1/2 way through the cast" a bit, but I know Wind Shear doesn't come off CD until shortly after he begins casting.

I say this because I begin to mash shear as he begins to cast Arcane Annihilator, and it doesn't get interrupted until about the 4th or 5th press, which has it about 1/4 or 1/2 through the cast by that point, but that may just be the result of input lag. I'll have to pay more attention tonight as I raid to see if it really is just input lag or not.

I know it's not an issue of lag as I average 80-100 world ms, depending how much traffic is on my network, and never go above 150.

[Taurrus]

I got a question, in single targeting "call of flame" will only boost searing totem?

[Littlenino]

I got a question, in single targeting "call of flame" will only boost searing totem?

Seeing as we don't use Lava Burst or Magma/Fire Nova (on pure single target), yes

[Taurrus]

Seeing as we don't use Lava Burst or Magma/Fire Nova (on pure single target), yes

Taking that into account getting a 20% more damage, I'm gonna post something from EJ.

2 Points Call of Flame - Will increase Searing Flames tick damage and Fire Nova damage.
2 Points Reverberation - 1 sec reduction on shocks, worth a bit more with Unleash Elements in the mix.
3 Points Elemental Precision - Provides you with a little bit of mastery without calling it mastery.

Which one will add more dps, call of flames or elemental Precision, being mastery our best stat.

[Littlenino]

Taking that into account getting a 20% more damage, I'm gonna post something from EJ.

2 Points Call of Flame - Will increase Searing Flames tick damage and Fire Nova damage.
2 Points Reverberation - 1 sec reduction on shocks, worth a bit more with Unleash Elements in the mix.
3 Points Elemental Precision - Provides you with a little bit of mastery without calling it mastery.

Which one will add more dps, call of flames or elemental Precision, being mastery our best stat.

3/3 Elemental Precision gives about 5x-6x the dps 2/2 Call of Flame gives

I did about a 5 minute session on a target dummy without either talent, and took all of the spell damage that Precision applies to (which, in our case, is all of it), and compared the dmg that would be 3% of that to the +20% damage Call of Flame would have given

The total spell damage done was almost exactly 1.95 million damage. I'm going to round it up to 2 million for the sake of easier math. The total damage done by my searing totem was almost 49.5k (again rounding to 50k for the sake of easier math).

3% of 2,000,000 = 2,000,000 x .03 = 60,000 bonus damage gained through Elemental Precision

20% of 50,000 = 50,000 x .20 = 10,000 bonus damage gained through Call of Flame

Keep in mind that this was only 1 test of about 5 minutes, and the results are slightly rounded (the rounded value for each is within a few hundred of the actual number), but it's pretty clear regardless that Elemental Precision gives MUCH MUCH MUCH more damage than Call of Flame does.

This was also self-buffed as well, so the difference could be even greater when fully raid-buffed.


EDIT -
As far as justifying Reverb over Call of Flame is Concerned, 10,000 extra damage over the course of the fight will VERY rarely make or break a fight. If you are someone who is all for min/maxing dps, go for it. Otherwise, do w/e the hell you want.

[Vane]

The total damage done by my searing totem was almost 49.5k (again rounding to 50k for the sake of easier math).

Something is wrong here.

I don't feel like doing a dummy test myself right now, so I just ran a enhance shammy through Simcraft. Searing totem + Searing Flames (which both are boosted by Call of Flame I must assume) made up 13% of the shaman total DPS. This was with 2/2 CoF, so some napkin math tells us CoF was about a 2% DPS increase, for 2 points.

Elemental Precision is less than a 2% DPS increase, for 3 points.

[Walktheline]

There are no fights in the current tier of raiding that has an interrupt that NEEDS to be interrupted every 5 seconds.

Well Chogall Adds are casting every 6.5 seconds, which means, if you are getting mindcontrolled and you are kicking quite late, you can get trouble with kicking (if you are doing it solo!).

[Littlenino]

Something is wrong here.

I don't feel like doing a dummy test myself right now, so I just ran a enhance shammy through Simcraft. Searing totem + Searing Flames (which both are boosted by Call of Flame I must assume) made up 13% of the shaman total DPS. This was with 2/2 CoF, so some napkin math tells us CoF was about a 2% DPS increase, for 2 points.

Elemental Precision is less than a 2% DPS increase, for 3 points.

Strange. I must have missed the listing of Searing Totem's Searing Bolt when going through Recount and tallying everything up. I'll have to test again later today and see if my numbers agree with that.

Also, since the damage of Searing Flames is equal to that of the damage done by Searing Totem, Call of Flame would indirectly increase its damage too.

[Acidbaron]

Either there's a difference between 10/25 man, which I doubt it since the mechanics should be the exact same on boss fights between 10/25 man, or you're doing something wrong (not trying to be rash, just pointing out the possibility).

All I know is I have 2/2 Reverb, and I solo interrupt Normal 10-man Arcanotron every week my raiding group does it, and not a single cast gets off while I'm doing it. I will say that Wind Shear is not off CD until about ~1/2 way through Arcane Annihilator's cast, but I still have plenty of leeway to get off the Wind Shear for the entire fight.

I doubt that i'm doing something wrong, as i'm not the only enhancement shaman who will tell you that really you can't solo interrupt arcanotron for the reasons explained even given latency free conditions and an additional second that might be gained from moving while it generally just stops and casts anyway. As if it could be solo interrupted that would make it a whole lot easier to deal with on heroic.

I also took the liberty to look you up to confirm if you got every interrupt and annihilator didn't hit anyone on your omnotron kills, and your achievement does not list that step completed, so that confirms not all interrupts of the cast are covered.
Could be some are getting thru and you aren't noticing it as on 10 man normal it's just a single bolt that does a medium amount of damage while on heroic 25 man it's hard hitting ability that strikes 3 people at once just killing them if it goes thru, i also looked up the ability on wowhead to see if the cast time or a cooldown was added somewhere and notice no difference between any available other then damage.

As on the subject of testing talents, don't use dummies they are inaccurate and only good for memorizing or practicing a rotation or ability priority.
Just sim it under correct conditions and you'll get an accurate outcome.

[Rehea]

there is diference betwen arcanatron cast on 10 and 25 man, on the 10 man mode he would never cast a spell i wasnt able to interrupt solo with wind shear, on 25 man he would start a new cast as soon as the spell lockout from wind shear (2 seconds) ended

[Agallochh]

there is diference betwen arcanatron cast on 10 and 25 man, on the 10 man mode he would never cast a spell i wasnt able to interrupt solo with wind shear, on 25 man he would start a new cast as soon as the spell lockout from wind shear (2 seconds) ended

And this is how it should be for 25 man. Just like how on Nef 10 man, only 1 interrupter is required per platform where on 25m two are required per platform.

[Deleted]

10man ODS you definitely can interrupt arcanotron on your own - reverb is good for it since he recasts in less than 6 seconds. Like people have said, the 25man version of the fight operates on the interrupt lockout

Littlenino, it's been pretty well covered over on the EJ forums that CoF represents more dps per talent point than EP does. Like Acidbaron said, a 2mill damage test on dummies is hardly conclusive

[Deleted]

The answer is, don't take it, it's not meant for you.

Wrong, part of ele presision is meant for us is 1/2/3% of frost/fire/nature damge increase... That includes Lavalash, FT, fire totems, shocks and you can get the picture.
But on hit part, yes it only grants you 15 to 20 spell hit, depending on your chest enchant really.