Are 25man Guilds A Dying Breed?

[nnelson54]

Raiders are a dying breed. People don't like coming home from work to start up another job.

I'm 12/12 normal mode (ten man) and have no desire to go into hard modes and I raid six hours a week.

I wish my job only required six hours a week(eight if you count the two hours a week I spend farming for flasks/potions).

[Deleted]

Same on my server, 25m guilds are rare these days. My current guild raided 25m in wotlk and now only one 10m group which Im not even in at the time being. I dont mind raiding 10m since every member of the raid needs to perform and its also more chill with only 10 ppl screaming in vt instead of 25.

[Royalcrown]

Same on my realm. We have maybe...2 guilds (counting alliance and horde) that do 25m content, compared to nearly every guild pre-cata doing 25m stuff. I dont get what the point is to do 25m anymore when 10m is more challanging, and has the same loot. I really wish Blizz would bring back seperate loot tables to each setting. And while theyre at it, bring back seperate faction loot as well. That was the best thing i liked about ToC.

[Lupercus]

25man and 10man -- Everyone agrees with 25man having the hp pools on bosses doubled compare to 10mans, which means: 10man = 100mill HP pool 25man = 200mill HP pool

The bosses, abilities, everything has the same damage.

25man = 200mill HP - Spread on 16 DPS with more buffs, more heals, more damage due to 25man, 5 tranq, 5 divine hymn
10man = 100mill HP - Spread on usually 4 DPS, (cause 10man HC takes usually 3 tanks) less buffs, less damage, less healing.

So, my conclusion is 25man can afford taking 10-15 casuals into the raid, 10man cant.. So 25man cant really die out yet, cause 10man is to hard for most ppl still, and ppl cant progress there without a bunch of motivated, dedicated and skilled people.

Since the problem is usually organize the raid due to lack of ppl, should make it 20man

Never my intention to bring this into 25 vs 10, just pointing my view of why 25man is not dying out yet.. Thougt its hard to organize compare to 10man.

[mercutiouk]

Dying Bread? Like - purple coloured loaf?

/trollface

But no, seriously. My server holds a decent number of 25m guilds, I raid in one and we don't generally have much problem recruiting. We've cleared 12/12 10&25m (1/13 HM) so that likely explains a lot too tho. I wouldn't want to start a 25m guild in the current climate.

[mordale]

Wait, what?

yea believe it or not most the fights in T10 are harder on 10man then 25man.

[Ciah]

I wouldn't want to start a 25m guild in the current climate.

I wouldn't want to start a guild at all at the moment. I wonder what they will come up next to discourage ever leaving your current guild...

[Deleted]

Never my intention to bring this into 25 vs 10, just pointing my view of why 25man is not dying out yet.. Thougt its hard to organize compare to 10man.

I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. If anything it's easier to run a 25 man guild and to keep your raiders happy. As a former GM of a 10 man guild, organising 10 mans is even more of a ballache than 25s. In a 10 man guild if you have too small a roster then a couple of people not being available ruins your raid, if you have too many people you piss off a larger portion of your guild by making them sit out a lot.

[Buckwald]

Do not turn this into a 10 vs 25. Next person who speaks on the subject will get this locked.

[Gavenrod]

So, it seems like 25man guilds at least on my server a struggling more and more to be able to raid.

In the last week the only 3 alliance guilds doing 25man have not been able to get enough people on to raid. Recruiting people for 25man has become ever more difficult. Guild mergers are difficult as well as we all raid at different times
.
It really seems to me that the new 10man system is slowly killing 25man guilds.

It's not just your server, this is a common problem occurring frequently on many servers. My guild is also struggling to maintain the ability to continue with 25's, and we're busting our asses to not have to do heroic content with 2-3 missing people on the roster. In my opinion, WoW's concept hasn't evolved enough to keep the attention of those who've played for so long. Yes we've seen changes to the interface. Yes, we have new ways to manipulate how the game can look on an individual scale. I myself am approaching 12k in achievement points, and I'm struggling to continue to find new and invigorating sensations in game.

Wow's method of play, has not changed. There are three roles to play for any given content. Boss fights are completely binary and mechanical, there's nothing intuitive about the opposition that players face, until they step in the confines of PvP. And in PvP, glaring class and spec imbalances that have existed for many years aren't being dealt with as many players have asked for quite some time now.

25 man guilds aren't what's dying in this game. The perspective that players have with the game are the real issue at this point.

[Dahrla23]

OT: No I don't think they are "dying out" so to speak, I just think that there is less of them because with 10man raiding offering the same rewards people have more fun raiding just with friends, rather than the 15 other people they otherwise would not wish to play with.

I agree with this completely.

[Darkw]

Personally i think 25 man is way more fun then 10 man cause if u look back the contempt was harder and loot was better.
Being that said i think when loots are the same on 10 man and 25 it just get more wanted to go a 10 man cause its easy to make that kind of grp instead of making a big 25 man.
So if u want more 25 man raiding back make the loot better on 25 man better then 10 man then u will see more and more 25 man raiding going on that it is now cause i totally agree that 25 man is way more fun

[Deleted]

In short, you are just wrong, this is probably an isolated example from yours and a few other servers.

I wont turn this into a 10vs25 man fight off but 25s can level quicker, have greater access to CDs and class utilities in fights and can have a larger rotation of roster. 10 mans have a more core group where everyone gets to know each other, can become self efficient on things like food and flasks (not saying 25 mans cant of course, just easier for 10s) and are technically easier to recruit for, although the calibre of the recruit has to be higher.

On my server there are actually several examples of 10 man guilds stuck at 3/13 heroic merging to 25 mans to progress; although there is also an example where the 4th largest 25 man guild broke down into a 10 man guild at the end of WotLK due to new lockouts and the officer team thinking they could progress better that way.

I think whats key here is that I play on a very high population server (Kazzak-eu) where raid progression is a big deal and is what the vast majority of players play for. You often find that most of the guilds will only recruit certain specs or merge for particular fights (if anyones interested two 10 man guilds worked on tLoD at the end of WotLK but remained sepereate) and this is because they have the luxury of a large population and top progression guilds, so people are willing to server transfer.

[blahssat]

Personally, I would prefer to be in a 25 man raid, but have 1 or 2 people not present can kill the entire raid night. The chances of someone being absent in a 10 man is much lower than a 25, so.. yeah. Also got the crap with loot drama and all that crap.

I'm not hating on 25, I would love to be in a 25 man as I've kept spectacular attendance (Had only 1 occurence where I was 1 hour late for a raid in a 4 month timespan, and this notice was 1 week in advance), but the other 24 people present may have other things happening that prevent them from showing, either from a family member dying to just plain laziness of not wanting to get on to raid. Also, I'm not a casual; We're 3/13 HM working steadily on HM progression, if it's relevant.

[Betelgeuse]

Well, yes. My guild is the only guild on the server doing 25s anymore (Horde AND Alliance). And sadly, we progress faster and easier through 10 mans. Generally we go as far as we can in 2 days of 25 mans, tues and thurs, do progression heroics on wed in 10 man, and clean it up on monday and down whatever hasn't been killed in 10 man. I don't think the reward is great enough for 25s compared to the logistical ease of a 10 man. All other guilds that were doing 25s are no longer. It's dying on my server at the least...

[Deleted]

Well mine guild get shattered because of the same lockout on 10 and 25 but we are strong going 25 man nothing can stop mine GM.But some ppl are right current there isnt difference in 10 and 25 rewards so many guilds pref to do 10 mans just because its hard to handle with 25 ppl at some points

[Attaxor]

Right now my server has 2 25man horde guilds and about 5 alliance guilds, while there ofc are less 25mans than in wrath those who still do 25man are those who were the most prominent and the "lesser" guilds went 10. The guilds who really care about their rank seems to be going 25 these days.

[Shadowspawn115]

It really just depends on the server. Personally, my guild runs the 25s (normal and some heroics) and a 10 man group every week. Just depends what you like.

[Deleted]

It's the weak people that will think this. The people who mean business will continue to press on.

[Deleted]

Note to mods: Not trying to turn this into a 10 v 25 man, just pointing out his ignorance and false information

25man and 10man -- Everyone agrees with 25man having the hp pools on bosses doubled compare to 10mans, which means: 10man = 100mill HP pool 25man = 200mill HP pool

The bosses, abilities, everything has the same damage.

25man = 200mill HP - Spread on 16 DPS with more buffs, more heals, more damage due to 25man, 5 tranq, 5 divine hymn
10man = 100mill HP - Spread on usually 4 DPS, (cause 10man HC takes usually 3 tanks) less buffs, less damage, less healing.

Since I know that what you say is far from true, I just thought I would bring up some numbers.

Note my numbers are rough and only checking some combat logs so don't take them for 100% truth, though atleast closer to what he said.

Omni 10 Heroic 48.5M Roughly
Omni 25 Heroic 148M Roughly

That is a 305% increase in hp from 10 man to 25 man.

Atra 10 Heroic 35M roughly
Atra 25 heroic 110M rouhgly

That is a 285% increase in hp from 10 man to 25 man.

Maloriak 10 Heroic 34.6M
Maloriak 25 Heroic 121 M

350% Increase

So no, 25 man =/= double hp, its more equal to triple the HP ( Which make kinda sense since the average 10 man have 5 dps 2 tanks doing damage and the average 25 man have roughly 16 dps and 2 tanks doing damage. )


Also, no 10 man require 3 tanks.