So.. yeah...

[Roguer]

I'm curious about what, exactly, I seem clueless? I pointed out a person is QQing and attacking someone else's post without actually addressing it, and he got butthurt. He then did the same to mine.

Screaming the sky is falling doesn't make it fall; replacing intelligence with extra attitude doesn't make your position correct (it's the "I'm yelling louder, so I must be right" fallacy). Much like a small pee-pee comment.

[Oraj]

I gave up affliction quite a while ago. I found Demo as a much better survivability specc.
Fel guard stun only 45 sec CD- Yes.
Hand of Guldan shot cast time? Aoe stun? Aoe root? - Yes.
Demonic Leap ? great way to get out of melee range ? - Yes

Though yeah locks need attention atm, ALOT of attention.

[Taros]

The dude is just pissed and fed up with the way things are going, and then some dufus shows up and starts naming off things that are so awesome about Warlocks but is completely full of shit, and then someone calls him on it and you side with him. Since, you have avoided any actual debate and just throwing comments from up there on your high horse.

That's what it looks like to me, anyway.

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 09:45 PM ----------

Oh wait health return on dot dmg,

Oh wait insta cast fear with health return on it

oh wait 20% hp buff when you pop cookie and soul shard, not to mention a free 45% life return.

oh wait, a insta cast pet with a huge bubble in emergency situations

oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more ignorant post about Warlocks. This is the guy whose side you took. Are you a team of trolls?

[grandpab]

Glad i'm not the only one who thought our PvP answer was just a beat around the bush.

I don't think blizz knows how to answer questions legitimately. The answer shamans got was pretty much we tried to do this, it didn't work and it still hurt shamans a lot, they have a lot of hardcasts to they're easy to interrupt so we could nerf interrupts (which would be a nerf for us since we have the strongest interrupt), also they use to be able to burst, now they cant, they could also lust, now they cant, they could also PROBABLY use a defensive cd.

I hate their answers so much...

[Oraj]

Oh wait health return on dot dmg,

Oh wait insta cast fear with health return on it

oh wait 20% hp buff when you pop cookie and soul shard, not to mention a free 45% life return.

oh wait, a insta cast pet with a huge bubble in emergency situations

oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful.

1 - Oh wait, my dots were dispelled before they even got the chance to tick. Crap! and I was really depending on that healing tick that barely does the job of keeping me up, not to mention they are main source of damage?
2- Oh wait, its on CD... what now?
3- Yes! I got healed and 20% heath increase, let me pop battle master while i'm at it, i'm indestructible ! *warrior casts blade storm* What is this I dont even....?
4- Oh wait, leme pop my pet because I have so much time to spare in a fight, il just instant summon a void walker eventhough he's completely useless...its okay...the shield will more than make up for it! WTF only absorbs 10k? that shield lasted for what 1 second ?

[Deleted]

Honestly my opinions on locks atm are if well played they are annoying buggers but hardly OP, the self healing is nothing compared to WOTLK and demonic teleport is counterable by pretty much any well played pclass/person.
Though if used right can be a pain in the arse to counter at the same time.
Fear is a joke with Melee interrupts hitting all the time i rarely get feared by a lock and they dont have any useful stun breakers that i see and more often that not i can stun lock for quite a long period even with PvP trinket.

The voidwalker Shield is frankly pathetic lol unless they soulburn you can interupt the summon and even if they manage to get the shield up it absorbs less than one GCD of attacks from a heavy hitter if that.

Blizzard saying they are fine while buffing bloody frost mages just tells me that like Ghostcrawler they play mage lol.

And no i'm not a winey warlock mine is err level 22? i play a rogue as my main

[Hoofshock]

im going to say this right now, and all the warriors out there are gonna hate me for this. PvP wise, locks need a huge buff, their self healing (drain health, healthstones, coil) are fairly low and also the damage of locks overall are somewhat low in a pvp environment. Locks fears nowadays are almost useless, it is so easy to break out of that its almost harmful to bother with a fear
Again, i dont play a lock, but this is what i feel (im probably wrong though)
So, as a warrior, i say locks should be buffed

[Roguer]

I didn't take his side. I understand where you're coming from, but at no point did I say I agreed with him. I said Kitt freaked out (before said "dufus" even made his post, btw), and instead of offering valid arguments, tried to out-dufus the dufus. Firehorse didn't call locks OP; in fact, his summary statement is "oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful." From that standpoint and that standpoint alone, I DO agree with him.

Where was Kitt posting anything more useful or accurate? Every single thing was an exaggeration and semi-hysterical complaint. Of course, I wasn't posting anything much more helpful, since I was criticizing his post without providing any useful data, myself. So again, I see where you're coming from there.

The problem is the ridiculous levels to which people take these complaints. "do these people even PLAY in arenas?" You'd be hard pressed to find a more ignorant post on Blizzard, one might argue (as you argued in your post above, regarding Firehorse).

Instead of running about yelling inanely about "locks are broken; I fucking quit!" actually focusing on an issue (as a few posters above have done) makes people actually take your post seriously. Complaining that Circle sucks because it's basically Blink (which is not only inaccurate, but also ignoring the fact that most classes don't have a comparable mechanic) doesn't address that Circle isn't what makes the class broken right now. The nerf to self-heals hurts, and when Blizzard doesn't think there's a problem with the nerf, that hurts even more; the nerf to CC has hurt locks a long time ago, without a noticeable increase in damage or some other utility.

So there; above are some points that are actually useful in the thread. That's actually more than Kitt (or yourself) have provided about WHY locks are hurting so bad (other than the typical player rant "Bliz hates me!"). And by no means do I pretend it's all-encompassing. But MY main thrust has never been that locks are or are not broken. My point has ever been that Kitt, instead of being constructive, joined in the ever-so-popular trend of yelling loudly and irrationally, ignoring the inconvenient, and at times, directly contradicting his opponent's argument (be it Firehorse or Blizz). And that's just plain obnoxious to me.

[Blazingbones]

Oh wait health return on dot dmg,

Oh wait insta cast fear with health return on it

oh wait 20% hp buff when you pop cookie and soul shard, not to mention a free 45% life return.

oh wait, a insta cast pet with a huge bubble in emergency situations

oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful.

You are a prime example of some of the most ignorant players in WOW. You clearly have never played a lock in PVP so GTFO of our forums noob.

We need alot more survivability... Melee have nearly 100% contact time with us, our dots (which are VERY important) are ridiculously weak and are dispellable with almost no threat to the dispeller. Yea... we need help.

[Oraj]

/Cast summoning stone
/target Firehorse

BrB faction change

WTFPWND by a broken class.

[Taros]

Okay, I can dig that. Here's something useful on why Warlocks are poop.

1. Soul Swap - Because of this our dot damage has taken a severe beating since we are able to spread them faster and easier. Remove this crap from the game and just give us a little more damage. 50% more would be good, and still not op.

2. Destro Mechanics - Immolate having no dispel protection at all might not be as big of an issue if virtually everything they do wasn't reliant on it being up.

3. Supporting Roles - The fact that Warlocks are versatile at supporting roles in arenas has caused the devs to make us inferior in every other way while solo, and in arena settings, we have to rely on our other damage dealer to go above and beyond the call of duty and get the job done. If our dk, rogue, boomkin, whatever, dies or makes minor mistakes, we are unable to compensate.

These are just my takes on some of the more prevalent issues. There are many more issues that need to be addressed and I have no idea why like our once-staple-now-completely-useless self healing mechanics.

[Deleted]

3. Supporting Roles - The fact that Warlocks are versatile at supporting roles in arenas has caused the devs to make us inferior in every other way while solo, and in arena settings, we have to rely on our other damage dealer to go above and beyond the call of duty and get the job done. If our dk, rogue, boomkin, whatever, dies or makes minor mistakes, we are unable to compensate.

that's so f****ing true..!!!!!!! I don't agree with soul swap tho.. it's good and it will not be removed obviously.. we need. some dot dmg..a way to survive from melees(don't tell me fear them..we can't even cast it and they break it in 2 seconds..don't tell me teleport.. every class has a way to reach us easily(charge/hc leap,druid charge and jump,shadowstep,death grip..only retris are helpless ^^) and most important..dispells... make them SUFFER for spam dispelling our dots!

[Penatar]

1 - Oh wait, my dots were dispelled before they even got the chance to tick. Crap! and I was really depending on that healing tick that barely does the job of keeping me up, not to mention they are main source of damage?

Right now dots are horrible. I play as destro and the only reason I keep corruption on my bars is in the off chance they don't dispell my immolate right away so that I have a little leeway with being able to keep immolate up.

2- Oh wait, its on CD... what now?

Didn't you hear 2 minute CDs on a couple thousand healing are all the rave these days, it's not like any other non healing class can out heal all of our heals with abilities that aren't on a cd... oh wait....

3- Yes! I got healed and 20% heath increase, let me pop battle master while i'm at it, i'm indestructible ! *warrior casts blade storm* What is this I dont even....?

Pretty much.

4- Oh wait, leme pop my pet because I have so much time to spare in a fight, il just instant summon a void walker eventhough he's completely useless...its okay...the shield will more than make up for it! WTF only absorbs 10k? that shield lasted for what 1 second ?

Yeah, pretty sweet that it only absorbs 1/3 of a mage's nuke, or 1/5 of warriors nuke. and after popping the soul shard to get 20% health, it's going to totally be worth it to let a warrior bang on my for 5 seconds while I summon a demon who only absorbs less than 1 second worth of damage.

[Zathrendar]

I don't think blizz knows how to answer questions legitimately. The answer shamans got was pretty much we tried to do this, it didn't work and it still hurt shamans a lot, they have a lot of hardcasts to they're easy to interrupt so we could nerf interrupts (which would be a nerf for us since we have the strongest interrupt), also they use to be able to burst, now they cant, they could also lust, now they cant, they could also PROBABLY use a defensive cd.

I hate their answers so much...

Melee interrupts need to be nerfed into the ground. I wouldn't say locks have a strong interrupt. Spell Lock is good but not Improved Counterspell better yet. Less/weaker interrupts will benefit demo and destro and affli will find it easier to get off fears. Not a bad thing.

Sacrifice is worse than crap. It'll likely get you killed for having the wrong pet out. I wish they'd just make it a baseline spell or made the VW actually useful.

Soul Swap is good in principle. Especially when fire Mages and UH DKs can spread dots with ease and with little to no damage penalty for it.

About a stunbreaker, I'd just be happy for Improved Succubus to make a return.

[Deleted]

Survivability - nearly where it should be currently imo.
*With no pvp gear we get DESTROYED(could use work imo, more passive survivability).
*With pvp gear(3600resil, demon armour, glyphed soul link) i'm not easy to kill, however i'm nowhere near as un-killable as other classes are.
*Voidwalker Sacrifice is a joke, it's not worth losing the silence over, not for a lousy shield on a ridiculous cooldown.
*Soulburned Healthstone, likewise is a joke, personally I would rather save my shards in case my pet gets gibbed or i need the mobility via teleport.

Damage - Our second/joint top problem.
*No proof currently as server's are down, but I ran a few tests earlier on the fly regarding our damage.
Myself(full blue pvp gear & vicious cloak, wand and staff) vs a rogue (full 346 pve gear with 346 daggers). Typical sub spec with imp recouperate(combat).
*Curse of Elements, ShadowBoltx2+Haunt(shadow embrace), Unstable Affliction, Corruption, Bane of Elements, Fel-hound, Drain life.
*All of these were out-healed literally ONLY by a rogue's recouperate.
*The only chance to actually pump some damage into the rogue is to set up a fear - fear - deathcoil - howl - fear - fear rotation whilst still tunneling this damage.
*I don't care if we can apply our dots to multiple targets via soul swap, making them tick for this low single target is an absolute joke. remove the glyph, or remove the whole ability its-self, just give us some damage back so we can put out pressure.

Dispelling - All dispel's are broken at the moment. Pretty common knowledge. This needs fixing asap.
*Thread on this specifically Here
*Ignoring the fact that our DoT's feel like a feather tickling the enemy, they are dispelled even easier.
*Our 'dispel protection' is an utter joke. People are not afraid of just spamming dispel because they can deal with the silence and the miniscule damage. If the damage portion was increased to a base of say 30% of a players maxHP, this would give it the protection it needs. It could even have the silence effect removed, meaning people wouldn't just spam it, however if you REALLY need to dispel something, you can take the risk.

[Augury]

RSL is the best 3s, quit crying and L2P

[Deleted]

FUCK YOU! even the corruption deals 1dmg we will get 2% of the health(50% chance)

[helheim]

Oh wait health return on dot dmg,

Oh wait insta cast fear with health return on it

oh wait 20% hp buff when you pop cookie and soul shard, not to mention a free 45% life return.

oh wait, a insta cast pet with a huge bubble in emergency situations

oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful.

9k is a huge bubble imo. and the other vw skills are useless unless out of combat. you sir are a bad troll.

[Zathrendar]

It's pretty pathetic. The shield was 9k when our HP hovered at 30k'ish. Now it's over 100k and it's still in that region. If Ice Barrier and PWS are being buffed, so should Sacrifice be.

RSL is the best 3s, quit crying and L2P

Which has diddly squat to do with non-affliction locks. I don't know why people think they can prove anything by using a statistic like that, which glosses over problems the class might have and only speaks to the synergies of one particular composition. It proves affliction locks are good in a particular comp. That isn't what's under discussion at all, like how easily dots are dispelled or how melee can lock down locks when they need to cast. So take your own advice.

[Deleted]

Oh wait health return on dot dmg,

Oh wait insta cast fear with health return on it

oh wait 20% hp buff when you pop cookie and soul shard, not to mention a free 45% life return.

oh wait, a insta cast pet with a huge bubble in emergency situations

oh wait i forgot, you just wanted to complain instead of talking about something useful.

Oh wait, 2% of my hp for 50% of my corruption ticks? please... that's about 1.1k for every tick and a warrior smashes you for 10k per second...

Oh wait insta cast fear that lasts for what? 3 seconds or not at all on many melees because they just use antimagic or antifear things? And how much does it heal? 4k at a 2min cd?

oh wait 20% hp buff for 8 seconds, which is 20k hp which a warrior bursts down in 3 seconds and the healthstone gives back not even 15k hp because of our base health being 30k

oh wait, doesn't that only work 45 seconds after I gave myself 20% more hp? In that time I've died 3 times from a warrior or a dk. Also, 9600 absorption is nothing... Compare it to the mages' (soon to be) 20k+