SWTOR information gathered thus far from various sources

[Deleted]

Cata sold around 4 milion copies for Europe and NA all together (China didnt get it due to Wotlk fiasco)

The famous 12 mil mark Blizzard is pushing down our throats every single time people ask about subs was back in TBC when game was at its peak with China subs and even then China was having over 60% of WoW's sub base at that time

In the first 4 months of Cata around 30% people left the game with game now having around 2.5 mil ACTIVE subs

SWTOR has 1.5 milion people opted for Beta testing so lets add 500 k more as total amount of people wanting to play the game at launch and lets add 500k more people coming from WoW to try for SWTOR

So if SWTOR didnt have a limited launch (half of europe +asia+oceania not being able to play at launch) it would have a solid 2.5 milion players at start

More than enough to worry WOW, i can see SWTOR becoming top dog in a very short time if they get their end game right.

[Deleted]

[citation needed]

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#6a568

I found that very quickly, i have no idea how reliable it is. Judge for yourself but it seems logical. Maybe someone has a better source?

[Deleted]

Err... You do know TBC wasn't the peak for Blizzard?
They reached their highest amount of subs in middle of WotLK, and by Cataclysm WoW had 12 million subscribers finally, but dropped to 11.4 million in March, 2011.

TBC was the peak. The increase of subs in WoTLK was simply China being able to buy the game to a large extent.

[Kashii]

TBC was the peak. The increase of subs in WoTLK was simply China being able to buy the game to a large extent.

Because subscriptions in China don't really count for some reason?

[nisallik]

And I agree with you. I never buy a game simply because a specific company made it and I in no way meant for my first comment on that subject to reflect that.

Is it wrong that I buy every BioWare game? ;p

[Deleted]

Because subscriptions in China don't really count for some reason?

I discount them, because as mentioned above, they pay significantly less for the game and don't actually pay monthly, so they aren't really 'subscribers' as they don't pay a monthly 'subscription'.

[Kisuro]

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#6a568

I found that very quickly, i have no idea how reliable it is. Judge for yourself but it seems logical. Maybe someone has a better source?

Blizzard Q1 report coupled with their definition of subscriber? The article you linked mixes two completely separate issues: how much Blizzard makes on the game in a given region and how many subscribers the game has. Yes, not all subscribers are equal. That's no news, Europeans pay more than Americans do (slightly more, sure, but still more), and Asians have a different pay model altogether. Does that make them any less of a subscriber? It appears that Brazilian WoW players will pay about half of what Americans pay. Should they be omitted from the subscriber count as well?

Now, I wish TOR all the best. I'm going to buy it and play it when it comes out. What I don't understand is why it is so vitally importaint that TOR takes players away from WoW or that it beats WoW on anything. Will you enjoy the game less if it is not the most popular one or when it sells less units on day one?

[JustintimeSS]

Is it wrong that I buy every BioWare game? ;p

Nope, not wrong at all. I end up buying them as well simply because I like the genres they make games for. If there was a Bioware football game, for example, I wouldn't buy it.

[Deleted]

Is it wrong that I buy every BioWare game? ;p

No, they do bloody good work, i have never brought a bad game from them yet.

[Lumocolor]

I don't get whats wrong with december...lol. Cataclysm came out december 7th and broke records. People who want the game will buy the game whenever it's out.

They said holidays 2011, since when is that anywhere near october? Maybe they're talking about german holidays and oktoberfest?..lol It's an american company so maybe holidays 2011 could mean thanksgiving but that's an american thing and doesn't matter to any other country. The only holiday that fits for all the countries announced for the release is christmas and that's in december, so holidays 2011 to me is december, likely the first week of december.

I'm anticipating this game as much as anyone, that being said i don't want crap so i don't even mind waiting till january.

[Deleted]

Blizzard Q1 report coupled with their definition of subscriber? The article you linked mixes two completely separate issues: how much Blizzard makes on the game in a given region and how many subscribers the game has. Yes, not all subscribers are equal. That's no news, Europeans pay more than Americans do (slightly more, sure, but still more), and Asians have a different pay model altogether. Does that make them any less of a subscriber? It appears that Brazilian WoW players will pay about half of what Americans pay. Should they be omitted from the subscriber count as well?

Now, I wish TOR all the best. I'm going to buy it and play it when it comes out. What I don't understand is why it is so vitally importaint that TOR takes players away from WoW or that it beats WoW on anything. Will you enjoy the game less if it is not the most popular one or when it sells less units on day one?

The point is that even though WOW has 12 million subscribers, half are Asians that provide relatively little profit. That leaves 6 million Western subscribers who make up the bulk of the profit, TOR taking 1-2 million of those can seriously wound Blizzard. I would be pretty pissed off if someone cut off 20% of my regular income.

[Apolaan]

I don't get whats wrong with december...lol. Cataclysm came out december 7th and broke records. People who want the game will buy the game whenever it's out.

They said holidays 2011, since when is that anywhere near october? Maybe they're talking about german holidays and oktoberfest?..lol It's an american company so maybe holidays 2011 could mean thanksgiving but that's an american thing and doesn't matter to any other country. The only holiday that fits for all the countries announced for the release is christmas and that's in december, so holidays 2011 to me is december, likely the first week of december.

I'm anticipating this game as much as anyone, that being said i don't want crap so i don't even mind waiting till january.

holiday season is oct-early jan

[link064]

The 5 million subs in Asia aren't subs in the way that the Western markets think of them. They don't pay "per month" like we do and they don't pay Blizzard like we do. Those subs are worth far less money to Blizzard than Western subs. It is similar to why Asian MMOs aren't even talked about in the same conversation of Western MMOs when it comes to subscriber numbers even if they are comparable. Just because of the logistics and the circumstances with the game providers, Asian MMO subs are worth a fraction of Western markets.

This is spot on. I've tried to make this point before, but people in other threads rarely listen to reason and just go "lolsubs".

As of June this year, Farmville had about 40 million active users. However, it is estimated that between 1 and 3% of them are paying users, or roughly 500k-1M paying users. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume it is 1 million. So, out of 40 million users, Zynga earned ~95% of its profit from 1 million users. If another game came along and took 700k users from Farmville, nobody would take notice. However, if those 700k users were all paying users, that would substantially damage Zynga's ability to keep the game going. This is the same situation that we are talking about. Wow has roughly 5 million US/EU subs that account for the grand majority of their profits. If another game came along and took a million subs, that is roughly a 20% hit to their base revenue. Sure, 1 million of lol12million isn't that much, but a 20% revenue cut is substantial no matter how you swing it.

[Kisuro]

The point is that even though WOW has 12 million subscribers, half are Asians that provide relatively little profit. That leaves 6 million Western subscribers who make up the bulk of the profit, TOR taking 1-2 million of those can seriously wound Blizzard. I would be pretty pissed off if someone cut off 20% of my regular income.

Did you even read my post? Are we talking profit or number of players? And again, why should TOR take anything from WoW?

[Deleted]

Did you even read my post? Are we talking profit or number of players? And again, why should TOR take anything from WoW?

I read it, did you read everyone elses reply to you? 1-2 million Western players will seriously wound Blizzards profit. Asians pay 6 cents to every dollar that westerners pay, hence why the western market is the one being targeted.

[Truhan]

I don't get whats wrong with december...lol. Cataclysm came out december 7th and broke records. People who want the game will buy the game whenever it's out.

They said holidays 2011, since when is that anywhere near october? Maybe they're talking about german holidays and oktoberfest?..lol It's an american company so maybe holidays 2011 could mean thanksgiving but that's an american thing and doesn't matter to any other country. The only holiday that fits for all the countries announced for the release is christmas and that's in december, so holidays 2011 to me is december, likely the first week of december.

I'm anticipating this game as much as anyone, that being said i don't want crap so i don't even mind waiting till january.

DID Cataclysm come out on December 7? Or was there a month long period before then when you could upgrade your account at full price and then play on December 7? The point being, Cataclysm WAS available in non-box form during the entire holiday season (note: Cataclysm digital presales became available on October 28, 2010).

[Gahlo]

I don't get whats wrong with december...lol. Cataclysm came out december 7th and broke records. People who want the game will buy the game whenever it's out.

They said holidays 2011, since when is that anywhere near october? Maybe they're talking about german holidays and oktoberfest?..lol It's an american company so maybe holidays 2011 could mean thanksgiving but that's an american thing and doesn't matter to any other country. The only holiday that fits for all the countries announced for the release is christmas and that's in december, so holidays 2011 to me is december, likely the first week of december.

I'm anticipating this game as much as anyone, that being said i don't want crap so i don't even mind waiting till january.

The whole reason why "Holiday Season" when it comes to releases coincide with Thanksgiving in the US is because the day after Thanksgiving is Black Friday. Stores all around the country cut prices and people do stupid stuff to be the first in line/get what they want. It is how the official Christmas shopping surge starts.

So there you go. =]

[Lumocolor]

Because subscriptions in China don't really count for some reason?

It doesn't count because they get the game for free and then pay a fee per HOUR to play (which is probably like $0.25US an hour since the yuan isn't worth much) And then they are locked at a maximum play time per day by the government.

[Deleted]

DID Cataclysm come out on December 7? Or was there a month long period before then when you could upgrade your account at full price and then play on December 7? The point being, Cataclysm WAS available in non-box form during the entire holiday season (note: Cataclysm digital presales became available on October 28, 2010).

And it was a great move by Blizzard, people spent their money before December when few can afford to waste. As much as i moan at Blizzards Dev team, their marketing and sales team are pretty good.

---------- Post added 2011-07-31 at 06:09 PM ----------

It doesn't count because they get the game for free and then pay a fee per HOUR to play (which is probably like $0.25US an hour since the yuan isn't worth much) And then they are locked at a maximum play time per day by the government.

6 cents an hour i believe, 3 hours a day. There was a big Q&A about WOTLK in china ages ago, i wish i could find the link, great read.

[Truhan]

And it was a great move by Blizzard, people spent their money before December when few can afford to waste. As much as i moan at Blizzards Dev team, their marketing and sales team are pretty good.

Exactly! If you want your game "out" by the holiday season, but can't actually have the game finished, presales are a GREAT way to meet that demand. Of course, every presale came across as a launch day sale, so figures for Cataclysm are higher than they otherwise would be, but that's a different issue altogether. If Bioware can't get SW:TOR out by the end of the year, I do hope they go the route of presales (not just preorders) to meet holiday demand.