The state of elemental shamans in heroic raids

[Snixs]

Hey guys, just as the title says, you top geared players, how are you doing, compared to other DPS'?

[Deleted]

There are actually a lot of sites like WoL to find this kind of information so it'd be quite silly to ask around on MMO

[Deleted]

I'm topping most of the fights when I don't have to interrupt. :3

[Drakkmur]

http://raidbots.com/dpshistory/Overall/25H/

http://stateofdps.com/

[Volitar]

Often on the lower end of the spectrum, between being a wind shear bitch and low dps im really wishing i rerolled mage

[Deleted]

Usually somewhere around the middle. Increased movement in heroic fights crippled my dps abit for example Black phase on Maloriak, Add fire on Magmaw etc.

[Deleted]

Im not a ele shaman, but one of my friends is, and he's doing fine. usually 3rd or 2nd on recount (Is what he says )

[Endus]

Elemental is doing fine. We're not blazing away at the top of the charts because we're OP, we're solidly middle of the pack. Elemental has lower variability than many classes, which leads to us being deceptively low on sites like stateofdps.com, which biases in favor of classes with larger variability. For instance, sims show that we're actually outperforming Fire mages slightly, but stateofdps.com shows fire mages to be higher, pretty much entirely because fire mages have roughly twice as large a spread based on lucky streaks, on average. Their highs are that much higher, but they're ignoring where their DPS is abysmal because they can't get a hot streak proc to save their lives.

[Thomasaquina]

My offspec is elemental, and my gear is mediocre (no set bonuses and some reforged resto gear), but I do reasonably well on the stand-and-shoot type fights, and middle-bottom of the pack with lots of movement. I'd love a light buffing, but I'm not complaining, especially given my gear.

[Deleted]

Im 12/12, working on Chimaeron and Atramedes HC, guild downed Halfus HC twice (I missed both those nights QQ). I'm basically top every fight, the fire mage, warrior and boomkin in my group sometimes if they get some RNG overtake me in the first ~30seconds to a minute of the fight, then RNG levels out for me and them and I take over, but oposite can happen I can get trillions of Lava Surge procs and be miles top. In the end top spot is fought out between me and the fire mage (both with 1 or two blues to replace still, I still havent got bloody wrists off Chim, and still using bloody PvP wep QQQQQQ).

tl;dr Elemental in PvE seems to be fine imo

[Futhark]

I've seen other Elementals do better, but I personally just couldn't cut it. Movement kills my DPS, found myself at 15th at times, and I could never break past 5-6th place.

[Dakia]

On H Halfus, I usually end up above the top half of the DPS, but I'm on Wind Shear Duty on Halfus so I end up interrupting a lot of my own casts. Also, for some reason my FE really loves to stop and take a nap on that fight. I think I ended up around 46k on that fight at the end, but I don't aoe the whelps at all and that is usually when I am overtaken by the other casters.

We're working on H Chim, but every attempt with the exception of a few last night, I end up going resto.

[Shockzilla]

I am in a well geared 10 man guild and we are doing well, though we are a small go we have exceptional players.
If we pop BL at the start of a fight and I can drop my FE I will most times end up 2nd or 3rd if we don’t have to move much and there are no adds and the fight lasts around 6 min. I can live with this.

If we don’t use BL until later and I can’t use my FE my dps drops by almost 1/3 of what it could be. Add to that I am on interrupt duty on every fight that I can be put on oh joy, and not being able to put my pet on a different target.

Here is the problem as I see it.

We need to be able to control our FE.

Earthquake is still too weak by far and has no type of slow affect.

The cool down on FE is too long and the opportunities for using it are very limited on many fights, and not usable at all on some.

Spritwalkes Grace sounds cool but falls short in application, name a single fight where you don’t need to move about every 30 sec.

Endus, I have read most of what you have posted and tons on EJ. We may be doing ok but there are way too many fights were I dps right next to our Lock and Mage, move with them, and at the end of the fight they have me by 4 to 5k. I admit that I am not the best shammy playing but I don’t suck. I have dps’d with other elementals gear similarly and or dps is within 1k of each other. I think what you have determined as being ok looks like a big old gap that need to be corrected. And I don’t want to even talk about resto.

I for one am tired of being nuked to near uselessness and being told it at an acceptable state for my class.

[Deleted]

I am in a well geared 10 man guild and we are doing well, though we are a small go we have exceptional players.
If we pop BL at the start of a fight and I can drop my FE I will most times end up 2nd or 3rd if we don’t have to move much and there are no adds and the fight lasts around 6 min. I can live with this.

If we don’t use BL until later and I can’t use my FE my dps drops by almost 1/3 of what it could be. Add to that I am on interrupt duty on every fight that I can be put on oh joy, and not being able to put my pet on a different target.

Here is the problem as I see it.

We need to be able to control our FE.

Earthquake is still too weak by far and has no type of slow affect.

The cool down on FE is too long and the opportunities for using it are very limited on many fights, and not usable at all on some.

Spritwalkes Grace sounds cool but falls short in application, name a single fight where you don’t need to move about every 30 sec.

Endus, I have read most of what you have posted and tons on EJ. We may be doing ok but there are way too many fights were I dps right next to our Lock and Mage, move with them, and at the end of the fight they have me by 4 to 5k. I admit that I am not the best shammy playing but I don’t suck. I have dps’d with other elementals gear similarly and or dps is within 1k of each other. I think what you have determined as being ok looks like a big old gap that need to be corrected. And I don’t want to even talk about resto.

I for one am tired of being nuked to near uselessness and being told it at an acceptable state for my class.

I'm pretty sure FE only scales from SP effects, and not haste, crit etc.

[Endus]

Endus, I have read most of what you have posted and tons on EJ. We may be doing ok but there are way too many fights were I dps right next to our Lock and Mage, move with them, and at the end of the fight they have me by 4 to 5k. I admit that I am not the best shammy playing but I don’t suck. I have dps’d with other elementals gear similarly and or dps is within 1k of each other. I think what you have determined as being ok looks like a big old gap that need to be corrected.

You're not a lock or a mage. Stop following them and trying to do what they do. There's problem #1.

I'm comparably geared to the mages in my guild, and they're both decent players, were spanking me back in ICC before 4.0.1, when Elemental really was lagging a bit behind. Most fights, unless I'm being interrupt-monkey, I can beat them, or at least make them work for it. And really, it's only fights like Omnitron where you really see a big difference from the interrupts, or Atramedes where I'm handling gongs, but there I'm losing DPS for solid reasons.

We've got a LOT of tools for movement. Between shocks, Unleash Elements, totems, thunderstorm, and Spiritwalker's Grace, moving due to boss effects shouldn't be that big a loss. We do lose a bit more than most classes due to movement, but it's nowhere near as big as people think; simming a Helter Skelter fight (heavy movement, as opposed to Patchwerk-style, which is just balls-to-wall DPS) shows us losing ~500 more DPS to movement than, say, a Fire mage. And we're simming higher than the Fire mages, even WITH movement. Which matches my personal experience more or less.

You also need to be careful about specific examples; my sims shows Elemental with ~8% variance based on random luck, and Fire mages with ~13.5%. If you got unlucky and the mage got lucky, there could be a 15% gap between you in their favor, but that doesn't mean their DPS will trend that way every time. This is why you should be running sims for 10,000 simulated fights; it gives you enough data to statistically identify that random luck factor, which is why I can give the variance numbers.

[Zaxmazr]

We're working on Heroic Nef 25 and Id say I keep up..usually top 7? always 21k+ dps from me though..

[grandpab]

I'm pretty sure FE only scales from SP effects, and not haste, crit etc.

It takes the casters SP, crit, melee hit, and spell hit.

[Xpace]

Lol @ certain simulation comments from bads trying to sound good.

Elemental is fine. As mentioned, "average" single target DPS, "mediocre" AoE, "slightly above average" utility. First to get assigned offensive dispels, first to get assigned interrupts.

"Fun factor" of the spec? Well that's a whole different story.

[Deleted]

It takes the casters SP, crit, melee hit, and spell hit.

Alright; but my point still stands. Timing hero with FE doesn't matter.

[ccsabathia]

I'm topping most of the fights when I don't have to interrupt. :3

If you're topping dps on heroic fights, chances are you'd at least be ranked on WoL. If you aren't running WoL, I don't know what to say.