Cho'gall feeds on our tears and broken spirits

[sbpaqi13]

I am in All Hail a guild on Zul'Jin.

We have had a HORRIBLE time on Cho'Gall or however you spell it. We are a semi-casual guild with a bunch of players who have raided for a year or more. We can, unless stupidity sets in of course, kill all the other bosses sans nef in one attempt. This guy has been taking us down multiple pegs though. We have downed him once but we have also wiped about 50+ times aswell. My question is if you take a look at the logs for which I have included does anything jump out at you?

We have come to the conclusion of low dps compared to other successful kills. Before we point someone out I wanted to get a non-bias third party view of it, any specifics such as is it healing or dps issue. Who is the person that is lagging it up? Anything actual helpful.

[Kaesebrezen]

Where are the logs?

[sbpaqi13]

Wont let me post the stupid log because I am a new user.

[Fust]

Put the link in your sig, we will be able to see them then

[khatsoo]

We downed it for the second time today, in a semi-casual 10-man guild as well.
It seemed the most troubling part was the last phase, when multiple things could mix and wipe us.
People obsessed on dpsing Cho'Gall instead of killing/interrupting tentacles, someone had too much corruption and is doing too much aoe damage to the rest, too slow on interrupting controlled people so more damage on tanks so less mana on healers, etc.
Also, do you do it with 2 or 3 healers? 2 healers have worked for us the two times better, so..

[Tziva]

Anecdotally, it seems like the DPS requirement for phase 3 of council is steeper than Cho'gall. If you have the DPS to beat that, you should have the DPS to beat Cho'gall.

Just edit your URL so it doesn't resemble one and you should be able to post. Else get your post count up to the minimum (I think it's ten).

[Jaerin]

What is your strat?

2 or 3 healers?
Where are you killing the adds?
Are you getting the slimes down before they get to the group?
Is the add tank interrupting the depravities?

[sbpaqi13]

worldoflogs.com/reports/46sxzchzjsl8mgdp/
worldoflogs.com/reports/swxzf1d6lwin91ko/
worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9q2gjauaagcwarj3/

[sicness]

Anecdotally, it seems like the DPS requirement for phase 3 of council is steeper than Cho'gall. If you have the DPS to beat that, you should have the DPS to beat Cho'gall.

Just edit your URL so it doesn't resemble one and you should be able to post. Else get your post count up to the minimum (I think it's ten).

This is true IF your raid is capable of managing their corruption. Going into phase 2 with multiple people above 30 corruption is almost a guaranteed wipe unless you have stellar dps. Once people realize that it's all about staying out of shit and breaking worship asap then the fight goes a lot smoother. Over the course of the first three to four downings of this boss our raid went from having a very sloppy 4-5 people with above 30 corruption to easily having the entire raid at or below 10. Just needs practice and work.

Looking at your logs you have enough dps for the fight, it appears you just need to execute it better. It appears people are taking a lot of unnecessary melee damage which can only be the small adds that spawn. This looks like your primary problem for people having too high corruption. They need to kite adds if one fixates on them and do whatever possible to not get hit. People are as well just standing in shit they should avoid, primarily the fire.

These factors effect your corruption and make phase 2 almost impossible for you the way it currently stands. Have people work on staying out of shit and you'll be amazed how much easier phase 2 will be.

[sbpaqi13]

it let me do the logs minus the http: part

We three heal it. We have tryed two a couple times but ran out of mana right after phase three started.
We kill the adds on the steps tank him in the middle of the room and take him back to throne at end.
The slimes are finally dieing before they get even close in the recent weeks.
The add tank had problems at first but has depravities down and no corruption comes from that other than the one off misses.

[Jaerin]

As far as I can tell its your tank that's dying first.

So is this caused by the healers running out of mana or what? This definitely looks like a dps issue.

Actually 7th attempt no one died for 9:30 minutes and he wasn't dead....that leads me to believe you seriously need to figure out what your dps is doing. You probably need to keep more dps focused on Cho'gall. You have plenty of ranged. You should be able to only have like your 2 mages or something take care of all the adds. Everyone else should stay on Chogall the whole time.

[sbpaqi13]

Tanks dying to mana jus completely gone at that point. We pop hero at start of phase three and well that will dry up all of our healers mana. I am the pally paqtwo healing and theres just not enough to go around at that point.

We suspected it was dps, the Gl and RL, when we had a discussion that seems to be it. Given the gear the dps output needs to be more than what they are currently putting out.

[Jaerin]

Tanks dying to mana jus completely gone at that point. We pop hero at start of phase three and well that will dry up all of our healers mana. I am the pally paqtwo healing and theres just not enough to go around at that point.

We suspected it was dps, the Gl and RL, when we had a discussion that seems to be it. Given the gear the dps output needs to be more than what they are currently putting out.

The fact that people are surviving the whole fight and he's not dying there is something seriously wrong. It appears like your people are capable of pulling decent dps some of the time, but its not sustained.

Yeah looking at the damage done graph don't have everyone switch to adds. Only have like your hunter and lowest mage switch. Have everyone else stay on Cho'gall the whole time. Be aware that a faceless will disappear if it is up when he transitions to p3. So on whatever add you decide is your last before pushing him just leave up and push him into p3 before the next set of slimes come up.

Take a look at this graph:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...um/damageDone/

Every one of your players is essentially stopping DPS to do something else. Sounds like dps needs more defined roles.

---------- Post added 2011-04-12 at 10:04 PM ----------

It's not just DPS. If your healers are truly running out of rotation, well. Looks like you all need to take a few days and look into whether or not you're speccing, reforging, etc correctly. Rotation... all that jazz.

Any healer is going to be out of mana after 9:30 minutes on that fight. That's not a healer problem at all.

[Ibramgaunt]

well according to your WoL, yo uare using Divine light way too much, in cho'gall my first heal is almost always holy radiance. I pop it with AW right when he uses his shadow order (the shadow dmg aoe thingy). next shadow order I pop aura mastery (not really needed, but less damage is always welcome) Your shammy needs to step his healing up a bit too

with less DL you should have more mana at the end of the fight, but still, if your other 2 healers aren,t able to heal enough, you might need to throw all those DL in order to keep group alive as long as you do....

few tips for mana : after the fester blood, when all the adds are down and all dps are back to cho'gall theres almost nothing to heal, this is the perfect time to pop a concentration pot/divine plea. also, on this phase, melee him, you might only get 1 or 2 hit, but it's still free mana also, logs shows you only judged 15 times in a 8minutes fight, clearly not enough, try to judge as often as you can, this is our best way to get mana up


edit : also Jaerin, the graph is fucked up cause of wipes, this is the overall graph, not a 1 fight graph. everytime they wiped, they stoped dps and only dots ticked

[Zeta333]

Wanna know how to get through p2 faster? 2 Heal 1 tank it, Make sure you have proper interupts and people dont stand in shadow crash. This fight really shows the badies and the idiots by who gets corrupted faster.

[BoomChickn]

Well considering our guild has a fairly easy time on cho'gall (first final boss down), a fire mage comes in handy, have everyone stack up behind the boss, and have the mage pop a dragon's breath soon as worshipping appears. This will instantly break all worshipping provided you aren't spread out for an adherent. And of course, make sure EVERYONE keeps their corruption low, a single corrupting crash is 30% more damage in phase 2 for each person that gets hit. If everyone makes it to phase 2 with 0 corruption, it should go off smoothly so long as people make sure tentacles die.

[Belloc]

Start two healing it and stop having the raid take unnecessary damage (flame patches, uninterrupted adherents, and melee hits from the blood).

[Agallochh]

Well considering our guild has a fairly easy time on cho'gall (first final boss down), a fire mage comes in handy, have everyone stack up behind the boss, and have the mage pop a dragon's breath soon as worshipping appears. This will instantly break all worshipping provided you aren't spread out for an adherent. And of course, make sure EVERYONE keeps their corruption low, a single corrupting crash is 30% more damage in phase 2 for each person that gets hit. If everyone makes it to phase 2 with 0 corruption, it should go off smoothly so long as people make sure tentacles die.

This guy speaks the truth. A destro warlock is just as good as a fire mage for worship stuns as well.

No one should have more than 15 corruption going into phase 2, and that's being generous. It's far too easy to have 0 corruption going into that phase.

If you aren't 2 healing it, you should try. Make sure your strongest healer stays on the cho'gall tank. Our DK tank tanks adds and takes barely any damage.