Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Deleted]

Some of the commentary at GW2guru is that they haven't figured out, or publicly stated, what they're doing with WvWvW... and that's one of the reasons I'm asking around friends. As far as I can tell, they've indicated that 'persistent world' = instanced public server like Diablo2, that you move around based on dynamic things like population changes, who you group with, and where you're assigned when you login.

its still better than having to pay for a server transfer off of a dead WoW realm, but it also lessens player accountability -- you'll NEVER see the same person twice between session, barring you grouping with them specifically. GW1 had what, 2m players? GW2 will probaby have as many if not more.

I don't think you understand how their servers will work in GW2. You will pick a server and all the areas on that server will be instanced in sections, everyone who is on your server will be on the server with you at the same time, just the portals seperating the areas are visible unlike WoW.

One key feature for PvP is WvWvW campains, which is 3 servers pited agaisnt each other every week.

[Snowy]

but my point is, character slots don't cost "nothing". and btw, it's been a while since game characters fit in a 100kb file considering all the data they put in (chacter quests progression, gear, etc) , it's usually a few MB for the least.

In GW1, an entire account with everything unlocked with full character slots being used was something like 56KB. One of the main things that can be said about A-Net is that they are very efficient at programming. Old Gaile post on Guru for those wanting to look it up.

Getting way too defensive when all I'm saying is true really, it's better for them to give less at the start to make money later. They aren't going to give you 20-50 character slots, just face it really. In reality would you give 50 character slots at the start of your game? Or would you use it to your advantage?

While 20-50 is a lot given they do need to take in money for extra profit, if they give less than 8 slots, then it will piss people off, not encourage people to buy slots to be able to play all the professions that they already paid to play. So less at the start to make money later isn't going to make that much and will turn people away for later releases. The majority of people are already worried about being Nickeled-n-Dimed to death with it being Buy to Play with micro transactions.

Keep in mind that with GW2 you have to use Transmutation Stones, which so far can only come from the store, to keep the look of gear you want. You will need a stone for each piece of gear and every time you get an upgrade. Even some free to play (Ex: LotR:O) games give Wardrobes that can be changed at will with no hassle. Chances are the salon/hairdresser will remain a cash shop item as well.

So the more they limit at the start, especially things that are basic features in other games, the more people are going to be pissed. Pissed players aren't going to buy things from the store nor are they going to give positive comments about the game. So ArenaNet needs to be cautious with how much they "give less at the start to make money later" since it could cost them money later. Sadly, the fan fanatics on Guru, one of ArenaNets main sources for play feedback, are willing to accept only 4 slots or less. Heck, most of those people would give up their first born if they thought it would make ArenaNet happy. Most players aren't like that and ArenaNet needs to pull in fresh players and keep them happy to "make money later". So over limiting players can and will hurt them in the long run. Word of mouth can be a powerful thing and players don't like to be denied what has become/is becoming basic features nor do they want to be Nickeled-n-Dimed for every little thing.

[Deleted]

Well I don't think they will limit players too much at the start, going by what people want/say they will accept etc. Then only 8 characters slots at the start will be enough, which would be fine for me, I won't make 1 of each profession just like I didn't on GW1.

I'm happy with 6+ slots at the start, I don't know how this turned into an agurement, some people get too defensive about simple things, in which we know little about.

[Deleted]

Well I might get defensive when people pull claims out of their butt instead of using what we know

I wasn't talking about you. :P

[Snowy]

Well those players (and you) should realize that without a subscription fee they need to make money elsewhere, you can't really expect it to be exactly like subscription based games.

And how much the character data is taking up on their server is really irrelevant.

Odd, I could have swore I also used a Free to Play game as an example while Guild Wars 1 & 2 are Buy to Play. So I'm not talking about it being just like subscription games. Subscription games offer way more character slots than you have professions and I even said that going that high wasn't good since they still needed to make extra profit. So expecting the same amount character slots as professions isn't being unrealistic. It is true that they will piss off a lot of people if they give less character slots than professions. Players will spread negative reviews by word or mouth if they feel Nickeled-n-Dimed on everything which will hurt the game in the long run. Remember, they need to pull in new players and have them want to spend money in the store rather than force them to spend money in the store have access to core parts of the game such as the professions.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it. "

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...rs-jeff-strain

"And so, each one of these releases is very profitable for us"

According to ArenaNet, running an MMO isn't that expensive. Or are you saying ArenaNet is wrong on it being rather inexpensive to run an MMO without a subscription fee?

[Deleted]

Even Blizzard said they don't need the sub to run WoW like they do already.

[probert]

I don't think you understand how their servers will work in GW2. You will pick a server and all the areas on that server will be instanced in sections, everyone who is on your server will be on the server with you at the same time, just the portals seperating the areas are visible unlike WoW.

One key feature for PvP is WvWvW campains, which is 3 servers pited agaisnt each other every week.

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't getting the 'home server' concept.

[Relente]

Just like the quotes above, it doesn't cost a lot to keep the MMO running, most people think running servers costs a whole bunch of money, but it really doesn't. Developing the game itself and keeping content going is what costs the most. ArenaNet will be making most of there money from the retail copies of the game, and future expansions, and/or content packs if they choose to go that route.

The in game store will probably bring in quite a bit of money as well, and it will not give anyone an advantage over anyone else. ArenaNet already said multiple times it will be purely for cosmetic items, which could be costumes, the confirmed transmutation stone, name changes, character re-customization, etc.

In the end, I wouldn't worry about ArenaNet having any funding problems, GW1 is still going strong and GW2 looks like it will appeal to a lot more players, so I have no doubts they will have any issues. They also have NCSoft funding them which makes a whole bunch of money off of L2 and Aion in Asia, not so much in US/EU though.

As for character slots, I think we will probably see 6 slots, just my 2¢

[Kaleina]

In GW1, an entire account with everything unlocked with full character slots being used was something like 56KB. One of the main things that can be said about A-Net is that they are very efficient at programming. Old Gaile post on Guru for those wanting to look it up.



While 20-50 is a lot given they do need to take in money for extra profit, if they give less than 8 slots, then it will piss people off, not encourage people to buy slots to be able to play all the professions that they already paid to play. So less at the start to make money later isn't going to make that much and will turn people away for later releases. The majority of people are already worried about being Nickeled-n-Dimed to death with it being Buy to Play with micro transactions.

Keep in mind that with GW2 you have to use Transmutation Stones, which so far can only come from the store, to keep the look of gear you want. You will need a stone for each piece of gear and every time you get an upgrade. Even some free to play (Ex: LotR:O) games give Wardrobes that can be changed at will with no hassle. Chances are the salon/hairdresser will remain a cash shop item as well.

So the more they limit at the start, especially things that are basic features in other games, the more people are going to be pissed. Pissed players aren't going to buy things from the store nor are they going to give positive comments about the game. So ArenaNet needs to be cautious with how much they "give less at the start to make money later" since it could cost them money later. Sadly, the fan fanatics on Guru, one of ArenaNets main sources for play feedback, are willing to accept only 4 slots or less. Heck, most of those people would give up their first born if they thought it would make ArenaNet happy. Most players aren't like that and ArenaNet needs to pull in fresh players and keep them happy to "make money later". So over limiting players can and will hurt them in the long run. Word of mouth can be a powerful thing and players don't like to be denied what has become/is becoming basic features nor do they want to be Nickeled-n-Dimed for every little thing.

It was confirmed a LONG time ago that Anet was giving T-stones a chance to drop in game because someone on guru presented a very good arguement about how T-stones could give an advantage over others. (ie taking really cheap armor and transmuting that skin ontop of their fully modded out max armor and then going into pvp looking like a noob while being a powerhouse at least I think that was part of the arguement) Anet as also stated that they used GW1 as a test bed for their cash shop and wouldn't sell anything the community hadn't ok'd. BTW they aren't denying us "basic features" appearance systems in fantasy mmo's are a dime a dozen with the front runner giving very good explanations as to why they're potentially problematic. You know what the two major quips people had with gw1? jumping and instancing and that was IT. Those were fixed in the design stages for the game. Really actually look at their past, the single most successful mmo franchise that is buy to play. Hell I like the new features/content way more in gw1 than I ever did a content patch in WoW. the only difference is I get 'em for free in gw

[Snowy]

It was confirmed a LONG time ago that Anet was giving T-stones a chance to drop in game because someone on guru presented a very good arguement about how T-stones could give an advantage over others. (ie taking really cheap armor and transmuting that skin ontop of their fully modded out max armor and then going into pvp looking like a noob while being a powerhouse at least I think that was part of the arguement) Anet as also stated that they used GW1 as a test bed for their cash shop and wouldn't sell anything the community hadn't ok'd. BTW they aren't denying us "basic features" appearance systems in fantasy mmo's are a dime a dozen with the front runner giving very good explanations as to why they're potentially problematic. You know what the two major quips people had with gw1? jumping and instancing and that was IT. Those were fixed in the design stages for the game. Really actually look at their past, the single most successful mmo franchise that is buy to play. Hell I like the new features/content way more in gw1 than I ever did a content patch in WoW. the only difference is I get 'em for free in gw

Fanboi less and do some research. http://www.arena.net/blog/john-and-e...loot-questions

"We’re not certain at this time whether or not transmutation stones will be available outside of the in-game store. Philosophically we believe that players should have a way to acquire items like transmutation stones through the course of playing the game and not just through purchase in the in-game store. "

Martin Kerstein is still on record stating that: " It is not like you cannot get the best items while playing the game. But if you want to have the look of a certain item but the stats of another one, then yes, you need to get a Transmutation Stone from the ingame-store." http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...e-t9275p2.html post #32

While it fits their philosophy, they have yet to confirm that they will be available outside of the ingame store. They have confirmed that they aren't sure if they will have them outside of the ingame store. So ArenaNet stating that they aren't certain that the stones will be available outside the store doesn't mean it is confirmed that they will be available outside the store. So until ArenaNet actually confirms that the Transmutation stones can come from the playing the game, then the only confirmation is that they come from the Cash Shop.

Also, it wouldn't give anyone an advantage unless you mean an advantage over people who can't grasp that the look armor doesn't mean that it is the lower stat version. Example with store only stones: If you are a level 80 wearing armor that looks like starting armor and I see you and think you are in low level armor, then that is my fault for not actually knowing that the look of armor can be changed. Your advantage in that case would be my stupidity on the functions of the game, the T-Stones don't give an advantage unless the opponent has no clue about the game and in that case, it's not really the T-Stones that are giving you the advantage.

When other games, including Free to Play games, have a much better system for changing the appearance of your character's armor to look the way you want along with it being a free part of the game, then GW2 is taking steps backwards in design. When other games offer a salon, including free to play games, for ingame gold then GW2 is taking another step backwards. Even in Guild Wars 1, you could get the look of starting armor for max level armor without using the cash shop. They are denying the basic features that are in other games, including Free to Play games, unless you use the Cash Shop. Also, how is it potentially problematic to be able to change the look of your character and their armor?

[Rokstrin]

Yea, the Transmutation Stone thing really sucks. Wish they'd adopt a better system for that, but then again I guess there have to be downsides to every game and no game is perfect.

Sure a lot of games have wardrobes and DCUO has implemented the ability to change your armor looks at will, and the players were actually intelligent enough to look at a person's level if they were so insecure in their ability to PvP that they had to make certain they greatly out-geared someone before they'd even consider going against them. Then again, DCUO is a totally different game where skill matters more than gear and jumping around dodging and avoiding attacks makes all the difference. You don't just stand there and get hit in the face over and over like WoW. lol They claim GW2 will be more like DCUO when it comes to the skill mattering and you actually having to be active with your play and quick to think and respond, and while I think that's great I'm sure that it will put-off a lot of potential players because that sort of thing is just far to difficult for them and they aren't used to skill being important, only gear and a specific rotation.

The salon is also a nice option, most games that I've dealt with have had a salon of some sort where you could change your look for game currency. I think this is rather important, and while GW1 seemed to do okay with the Salon Features being an in-game store item only, it was added in so late in the game that I don't think they've fully considered the impact that it will have on new players of GW2. People are just far to used to being able to use a salon type system for game currency, and I think that needs to be available in GW2. If they want to sell Gender Changes or access to additional "looks" via the store (even if those "looks" are just things not normally available to that class) then that's just dandy, but some basic game currency options are going to be expected I think.

So yes, there seem to be some negative aspects to GW2 and some that are only negative to a percentage, but I think all the Pro aspects will win out in the end. However I have to agree that making the Transmutation Stones either very cheap to buy or available through game play will benefit them more when it comes to enticing new players to play. Guess we'll have to wait and see what they go with.

[Nox165]

Would be more interested in gw2 if there was a healing class to play.

[Deleted]

Would be more interested in gw2 if there was a healing class to play.

Then it would defeat the entire purpose of GW2 game play. Troll less.

I don't like the idea of buying the T stones from the online store. Don't see why they should be on the online store if they just change armour apperances. I prefer buy more useful things for real money.

[Deleted]

I don't like the idea of buying the T stones from the online store. Don't see why they should be on the online store if they just change armour apperances. I prefer buy more useful things for real money.

Unless you're talking character slots or something similar, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Anet's philosophy is to not sell anything for real money that provides a gameplay advantage to those who buy it over those who don't. Anything you need to be competitive is in game. Stuff that can distinguish you from other players in a cosmetic sense will be the only things available from the store.

[Deleted]

Unless you're talking character slots or something similar, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Anet's philosophy is to not sell anything for real money that provides a gameplay advantage to those who buy it over those who don't. Anything you need to be competitive is in game. Stuff that can distinguish you from other players in a cosmetic sense will be the only things available from the store.

I know, that I waas talking about the character slots, and the costumes they sell at the moment. They want peopel to feel unique and a hero in GW2, but if you have to buy them from the store (And there not exactly cheap) then it kind of defeats the purpose of a unique hero feeling.

[Deleted]

From what i've seen and read so far, it looks like there will be plenty of customization options available without the cash shop stuff to give you the opportunity to look unique. They've already shown us how massively thy built up on GW1's already good dye system.

Also, considering that these Transmutation stones will likely be used a lot, I imagine they would be fairly cheap in comparison to a full costume. And while they may not be available in game from launch. They could always become available later on.

[jealouspirate]

I've accepted that the cash shop will exist, and of course Arenanet has a mandate to profit off this game. I'll probably buy some from it too. I also am glad that it's limited to cosmetic items instead of things like power boosts, exp boosts, levels, gear, etc.

However...

I think it's a bit disingenuous of Arenanet to suggest that cosmetic items give no advantage to players and are not central to the game. Looking cool is really important to players. In fact, Arenanet recognizes it's so important that their rewards for completing hardmode dungeons will be cosmetic gear! Having rewards for the hardest content being cosmetic gear and then selling cosmetic gear for real-world money "because it doesn't really make a difference" is sending a mixed message.

Just look at WoW and the lengths people will go to get really awesome looking stuff that provides no gameplay advantage. When someone is riding an Ashes of Al'ar in Org do most people think "Wow, that's so awesome, jealous" or "Who cares? It goes just as fast as my Wyvren". Cosmetic stuff is truly important to players.

[Deleted]

^ sure, looking good is important, but does it really give you an advantage.

You can perform just as well as any other, and I think this is what they meant.

[Deleted]

Guys anyone knows when they are going to release their next proffesion to public? ora ny guesses/hints on what prof is it ?

[Deleted]

Guys anyone knows when they are going to release their next proffesion to public? ora ny guesses/hints on what prof is it ?

They said that the next profession will be released this month, but gave no dates. It will most likely be towards the end of the month.