Ragnaros will hopefully be a milestone in PvE!

[Hetrofi]

After reading some about the ragnaros fight we will be seeing, im thinking it will be a milestone for raiding, and a really good one aswell.

If someone doesn't understand what i mean by milestone, i'll go through the ones i think are the most important ones and what they brought


Onyxia - First raid and attunements (i think)
TBC Dungeons - 2 seperate versons of a dungeon, one heroic and one normal.
Naxxramas in northrend - 2 different raid sizes
Ulduar - 2 different versons of most fights, with different strategies
ToC - same raid with same size, one harder than the other, on two seperate lockouts
BoT - A boss only available to heroic modes.


Now, in 4.2, we will have a boss that has not some added abilities to watch out for on heroic, but an entirely different fight. He will be moving around on his feet, while on normal mode, he is just chilling in his pool. I hope the heroic fight differs so much that if the model and place was changed, it would be har to tell that its the same dude.

This is a much better explanation for heroic, a better way to understand it and also a much more fun way.
Some encounters you might be coming in later in the heroic verson, ie the boss has gotten more time to prepare or do whatever he wanted. Or maybe the boss has some defensive "things" around him (Guards, cannons, pets) or maybe the bosses just react differently, instead of just fighting on, maybe the boss takes the raid into another room and continues there?

This is a lot cooler than just the average +10 mill hp and a debuff to dispell. It would make the heroic modes feel more like progression instead of redoing with perfection. Heroic mode should be cooler than normal mode, not just harder. Today, after doing 12 bosses, you have basically seen all those 12 bosses good enough, and heroic mode won't surprise you much, but with an additional story like this to it, it would be much cooler.

I know this is kind of similiar to the Ulduar fights, where the hardmodes were determined by how you fought, but i think this is a better system, since you are not as restricted this way. The heroic part of it can be from the start, instead of just from the time you activate hardmodes. A good example here is XT. Until you break his heart, he is the same normal mode, and everything before the fight etc is the same on hardmode and normal. With this system, he might've been altered by Mimiron, from a trash robot, into a fightbot, giving him some big swords and guns, so that instead of that attack where he hits the ground with his hands, he could instead do some weird whirlwind or launch rockets.

Whats you're view on this?
Do you think this is better?
Do you think blizzard will/should do this?
Would this make you more eager to progress through the heroic modes?

[Mongoose19]

Ofcourse it's better and no Blizz wont do it more often cause it's effort and they hate it.

[smartAXE]

normal mode, no legs
heroic mode, legs

[Resentful]

Bleh, I've had enough of the milestone thing. I just wanna play the game and be done with it

3 months within H LK was horrid enough for me, I can't imagine people in BC who we're doing pre-nerf Muru

[Shazzia]

Actually, Ulduar's Algalon only had heroic mode, just like Sinestra!
But very good post, enjoyed it

[Deleted]

Plz give the milestone that annihilates the previous 5!

[Pantelija]

Dont get too excited about heroic mode , knowing Blizzard they will just add a phase where Ragnaros's Avatar walks around randomly hitting raid members or similar stuff

Ofc i may be wrong but time will tell

[Foxytrott]

Ragnaros was a stepping stone back in Molten Core.
It began with him and it ends with him *insert dramatic gopher*
Anyways I have high hopes for the fight !

[Resentful]

Dont get too excited about heroic mode , knowing Blizzard they will just add a phase where Ragnaros's Avatar walks around randomly hitting raid members or similar stuff

Ofc i may be wrong but time will tell

He will summon a bunch of more legs as adds!

[Yalingo]

BoT - A boss only available to heroic modes.

That milestone belongs to Algalon in Ulduar.

[Hetrofi]

Actually, Ulduar's Algalon only had heroic mode, just like Sinestra!
But very good post, enjoyed it

I dont think Ulduar had a clear line for heroic/normal hence some bosses didn't get heroic modes (/point Kologarn) but i think you could kill Algalon without defeating any bosses on hardmode, if someone else in the raid had the key, which required you to kill 5 bosses hardmode, but just once, and not with the current group.
Coming down to hardmode or not in Ulduar is the ilvl i guess, in which case Algalon is indeed a hardmode, but i wouldn't go so far as to compare him to Sinestra, since Sinestra has an even higher ilvl than all the rest, and she requires Cho'gall HC kill every week afaik.

I did not doublecheck these facts, so they might be wrong, but im to lazy to google it =D

[Alvito]

I dont think Ulduar had a clear line for heroic/normal hence some bosses didn't get heroic modes (/point Kologarn) but i think you could kill Algalon without defeating any bosses on hardmode, if someone else in the raid had the key, which required you to kill 5 bosses hardmode, but just once, and not with the current group.
Coming down to hardmode or not in Ulduar is the ilvl i guess, in which case Algalon is indeed a hardmode, but i wouldn't go so far as to compare him to Sinestra, since Sinestra has an even higher ilvl than all the rest, and she requires Cho'gall HC kill every week afaik.

I did not doublecheck these facts, so they might be wrong, but im to lazy to google it =D

To pull Algalon once you had 1 or more ppl in the group with the key you just needed to kill Flame Levi and XT a few trash pulls and start fighting him. The other bosses could be done in normal if wanted and with how easy Flame Levi is you could have a few ppl zone in kill Flame Levi while the rest were flying or summoning ppl and really only kill XT as a group. Once you pull Algalon you have an hour before he despawns but he will not despawn mid fight so you have to get that last pull in before the 60th minute. Algalon was challenging enough while current that its fair to call him a heroic boss but getting to him was much different then getting to most other heroic fights.

[Hermanni]

Onyxia - First raid and attunements (i think)
TBC Dungeons - 2 seperate versons of a dungeon, one heroic and one normal.
Naxxramas in northrend - 2 different raid sizes
Ulduar - 2 different versons of most fights, with different strategies
ToC - same raid with same size, one harder than the other, on two seperate lockouts
BoT - A boss only available to heroic modes.

what seriously ))))))))))))))))))))))) i dont even

[Dracodraco]

I dont think Ulduar had a clear line for heroic/normal hence some bosses didn't get heroic modes (/point Kologarn) but i think you could kill Algalon without defeating any bosses on hardmode, if someone else in the raid had the key, which required you to kill 5 bosses hardmode, but just once, and not with the current group.
Coming down to hardmode or not in Ulduar is the ilvl i guess, in which case Algalon is indeed a hardmode, but i wouldn't go so far as to compare him to Sinestra, since Sinestra has an even higher ilvl than all the rest, and she requires Cho'gall HC kill every week afaik.

I did not doublecheck these facts, so they might be wrong, but im to lazy to google it =D

Algalon was the first optional heroic boss, no matter what amount of bosses you had to kill (remember, before engaging him, one person HAD to have killed 4 hardmode and a semihardmode to get to him - theres no denying that, even if he could open it after without ever touching those bosses again). Algalon just had another limiter on him, similiar to sinestras current - he could only be accessed one hour a week, while sinestra can only be accessed if one specific boss is done on heroic.

Considering the item level, Ulduar was wierd regarding that. The weapons were high level than the rest of the equipment (armor, trinkets, jewellery) which is not something thats used anymore, along with having both 10 and 25 man - they weren't even considering adding "halftiers" worth of item level to the endbosses before lich king (remember, 251->258 and 277->284 Ilvls).

As for raggy being a whole new boss - not sure how I feel about it, really. I would be happy with a new phase, learning a fight all over in heroic difficulty might be a very tedious job - going from normal to heroic you know the BASELINES of whats going to happen, and then have to weave new abilitys into that tactic. Hitting an encounter tuned as the "hardest" without having touched it in a lesser potent version just makes it alot... Harder, I guess. We spent 3 nights on nef, 4 on cho'gall and 2 on al'akir heroic, while we had to use 7 on sinestra as we hadn't ever tried her before.
On the other hand, if you take example from an earlier encounter like Lich king - instead of making the last 10% an easy win, they could have done something with it on heroic. Of course, 10% isn't long enough for a heroic-only phase, but you get the idea - lets say that on the normal encounter, you bring him to 30%, and then one of those big heroes comes and finishes him off. On heroic, that hero is instead incapacitated and you have to handle it yourself. I'd like to see something akin to that.

[Deleted]

I'm guessing no fight will be good enough for you he..

[Airlick]

He won't be a milestone. LK and LK HC fights were completely different. Yogg normal and Yogg +0 were completely different fights. Hell, even Mimiron was. These were the most recent milestones, and I can bet they are the last.
What could possibly be happening in Ragnaros HC fight that would make it possible to call it another milestone? I really can't see it happening.
What, they will make him harder than Yogg +0 or LK HC? Make him really impossible (as opposed to Ensidia's 'mathematically impossible)?
Yeah, a milestone indeed.

I may be wrong, only time will tell.

Sinestra was supposed to be a milestone. Blizzard wanted her to be the most challenging boss ever made. They failed miserably.

---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 01:10 AM ----------

On heroic, that hero is instead incapacitated and you have to handle it yourself. I'd like to see something akin to that.

Because another Tirion is really needed.

On the other hand, there is a way to make PvE encounters actually feel different. Make it more of assisting major lore figures. Like it should look like in LK fight, it should be about Ashbringer vs Frostmourne, Tirion vs LK, and players should just have to assist Tirion by some means. This would be something actually new. There were some NPCs involved in some fights, but they never played an important part.

[Archermit]

By fire be...stepped on!!!

[Orrly]

Just as a note..It hasn't been said that the heroic version has a completely different model associated with it's different mechanics.

Blue posts have only said that the Leg version of Ragnaros is only something people will see once they come "very close to besting Ragnaros on Heroic Difficulty".
I'm not convinced the mechanics of the fight are going to be THAT different yet, You probably shouldn't be either. People are getting WAY too excited about it considering the very small amount of information we've been given about it, and a blue already confirming the leged model when he's almost dead.
It seems like a good change to test the waters of Normal and Heroic encounters being totally different encounters.

[Resentful]

Just as a note..It hasn't been said that the heroic version has a completely different model associated with it's different mechanics.

Blue posts have only said that the Leg version of Ragnaros is only something people will see once they come "very close to besting Ragnaros on Heroic Difficulty".
I'm not convinced the mechanics of the fight are going to be THAT different yet, You probably shouldn't be either. People are getting WAY too excited about it considering the very small amount of information we've been given about it, and a blue already confirming the leged model when he's almost dead.
It seems like a good change to test the waters of Normal and Heroic encounters being totally different encounters.

As exciting as it sounds, I honestly would like the game how it was back in the day where there was no hard modes -.- so I don't have to do the boss two times in a god dam row with ''amazing new mechanics'' such as Frostmoune now sucks everyone and you now must dodge bombs!

[MildCore]

I dunno I thought bwd heroics were Interesting in a funny way. Nef Comes in with snappy one liners adding mechanics. "Chimaeron, stop fighting yourself!"
As the good pet listens.