Demo - Still SB? Or Incinerate?

[Shadock]

I know that after I've dealt with my priority moves, the spam spell was shadow bolt due to its Shadow and Flame. Now shadow and flame is also triggered by incinerate, and I believe the base damage of incinerate is higher when immolate is up, which should be. The casting time of incinerate is also lower than shadow bolt. So my question is, do we still need shadow bolt? If so, what is the benefit of using SB instead of incinerate during spams?

[lightgil]

SB still does more dps just less procs on impending doom. Its personal preference until some1 gets the numbers

[Harsesis]

Seeing as nothing in the patches changed either spell I would say it's still SB.

[Falconys]

As a matter of personal preference I use incinerate because it allows me to ignore molten core procs as well as removing shadow bolt from my bars which has allowed me more time for situational awareness with a slightly easier rotation which also increases dps. Also, it has given me the 3 talent points from Bane which I put 2 for aftermath and 1 for improved corruption. Single target would benefit more from Improved Corruption and/or Doom and Gloom, but I raid demo for AoE and find Aftermath to be worth the points when AoE control is needed.

[lightgil]

As a matter of personal preference I use incinerate because it allows me to ignore molten core procs as well as removing shadow bolt from my bars which has allowed me more time for situational awareness with a slightly easier rotation which also increases dps. Also, it has given me the 3 talent points from Bane which I put 2 for aftermath and 1 for improved corruption. Single target would benefit more from Improved Corruption and/or Doom and Gloom, but I raid demo for AoE and find Aftermath to be worth the points when AoE control is needed.

You are seriously using rain of fire over hellfire? I would understand on like magmaw but other than that...

[Entropic]

"You're overlooking the base spell coefficients, SB scaling better with gear than Incinerate due to its longer cast time.
That and the fact that if you're using Incinerate as a filler, you're essentially wasting 1 MC proc out of 3, because if you're casting Incinerate when MC procs, the cast time isn't updated while you're still consuming a stack.

SB is intended to be Demonology's filler."

[Sedryn]

You are seriously using rain of fire over hellfire? I would understand on like magmaw but other than that...

He must mean for the stun chance, rather than going for the straight damage. Which is an interesting idea.

[Seezer]

Shadow Bolt is demo's filler. SB benefits from 85% of your spellpower. Incinerate benefits from 71%. It scales much, much better. Also, when you're already casting Incinerate when MC procs, you loose a charge which is a DPS loss.

[Deleted]

removing shadow bolt from my bars

Demo not boring enough for ya? o.O

No1 mentioned the mana cost yet?

[lightgil]

Demo not boring enough for ya? o.O

No1 mentioned the mana cost yet?

Demo has ZERO mana problems lol if thats what you were getting on about

[Deleted]

Demo has ZERO mana problems lol if thats what you were getting on about

Maybe cause ppl use SB.. Yez, i dunno...

[lightgil]

Maybe cause ppl use SB.. Yez, i dunno...

Not exactly lol Mana feed each time your pet crits you get like 16k mana back ;P also as demo your pet crits far more often because of the hog effect. Also if you ever do get close to oom which is ... rare just lifetap :P

[Deleted]

Not exactly lol Mana feed each time your pet crits you get like 16k mana back ;P also as demo your pet crits far more often because of the hog effect. Also if you ever do get close to oom which is ... rare just lifetap :P

I never said any spec had mana issues, I mean, we're warlocks! \o/
But using Incinerate as your filler = More Life taps. = Less time spent casting spells.
My sims resulted in 600dps less while useing Incinerate as your filler. Using only Incinerate even gave 200 less DPET (on Incinerate) than the DPET on SB when using SB as your filler. And that DPET on incinerate includes Molten Core - Incinerates. And also, more life taps.
Ill admit, it was closer than I'd anticipated, BUT SB is Demo's filler. The difference in uptime on Meta was also 40% vs 39%. Incinerate filler had an intervall of 92.9 sec, SB had 94.8.
Simcraft's far from flawless, but still.

[lightgil]

I never said any spec had mana issues, I mean, we're warlocks! \o/
But using Incinerate as your filler = More Life taps. = Less time spent casting spells.
My sims resulted in 600dps less while useing Incinerate as your filler. Using only Incinerate even gave 200 less DPET (on Incinerate) than the DPET on SB when using SB as your filler. And that DPET on incinerate includes Molten Core - Incinerates. And also, more life taps.
Ill admit, it was closer than I'd anticipated, BUT SB is Demo's filler. The difference in uptime on Meta was also 40% vs 39%. Incinerate filler had an intervall of 92.9 sec, SB had 94.8.
Simcraft's far from flawless, but still.

Sound about right to me I think that corruption glyph is better honestly and your info seems to agree with that

[Seezer]

I never said any spec had mana issues, I mean, we're warlocks! \o/
But using Incinerate as your filler = More Life taps. = Less time spent casting spells.
My sims resulted in 600dps less while useing Incinerate as your filler. Using only Incinerate even gave 200 less DPET (on Incinerate) than the DPET on SB when using SB as your filler. And that DPET on incinerate includes Molten Core - Incinerates. And also, more life taps.
Ill admit, it was closer than I'd anticipated, BUT SB is Demo's filler. The difference in uptime on Meta was also 40% vs 39%. Incinerate filler had an intervall of 92.9 sec, SB had 94.8.
Simcraft's far from flawless, but still.

Not to mention if you're using Incinerate as your filler, you're going to lose a charge when MC procs. Which is a dps loss.

[Jessicka]

Not to mention if you're using Incinerate as your filler, you're going to lose a charge when MC procs. Which is a dps loss.

It is a bug, and I think it has been fixed.

However, using Incinerate as a filler sims out at about a 700 DPS loss for me,.

[Falconys]

He must mean for the stun chance, rather than going for the straight damage. Which is an interesting idea.

Yes, actually, thats exactly the fight I had in mind when I set up my spec. Sometimes its nice not having to be on site to AoE, ya know? It's basically the point of playing a ranged class in the first place that you don't have to be close to the source of the poo on the floor. >.<

Having tested it with SimC yesterday I have to agree that Shadow Bolt is both more mana efficient and produces higher dps. While a basic Shadow Bolt does more dps, the difference is exasperated by the fact that Incinerate can only benefit from Demon Soul with Felguard or Imp, and most of the time I'm using Succubus who's Demon Soul is for Shadow Bolt.

[Delia]

I never said any spec had mana issues, I mean, we're warlocks! \o/
But using Incinerate as your filler = More Life taps. = Less time spent casting spells.
My sims resulted in 600dps less while useing Incinerate as your filler. Using only Incinerate even gave 200 less DPET (on Incinerate) than the DPET on SB when using SB as your filler. And that DPET on incinerate includes Molten Core - Incinerates. And also, more life taps.
Ill admit, it was closer than I'd anticipated, BUT SB is Demo's filler. The difference in uptime on Meta was also 40% vs 39%. Incinerate filler had an intervall of 92.9 sec, SB had 94.8.
Simcraft's far from flawless, but still.

Mana returns from mana feed are rediculous now, I can AoE on Halfus until most of the drakes are dead, and still be full mana due to legion strike critting, and returning about 60-80k mana (it returns mana for each target hit if you watch scrolling combat text you'll see 3-4 mana numbers rolls off at once). Even once you are single targetting, when felhunter crits it returns about 20k mana for me, I have yet had to use lifetap at all as demo since the patch... I fill with sbolt, but I don't use the glyph to reduce mana cost.