[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Marfrilau]

It's actually quite hilarious.

In the end all Dany needed was Drogon which she had since season 1 ending. She didn't even need any ships which she spent seasons acquiring. Just fly on Drogon, enable super dodge mode and win...

[buck008]

I disagree. The Night King and the army of the dead for many seasons has been vocally portrayed as 'the real enemy'.

Ultimately it's a thing that has to be dealt with because it doesn't care who is on the throne. But it was always the b-plot at most. Even while they are fighting the dead, you're wondering who is going to be left to rule. First book was called Game of Thrones. It's the only game that has mattered.

[Khaza-R]

1. Euron/Jaime, sure. But Euron was just a stock psychopath in the show from his first scene, so fine. Cleganebowl though? That's been coming for literally the entire show. It's Sandor's reason for existing. It was a great moment.

2. Her dragons have done that for the whole show. Magic fire. Solved.

3. The turn was always coming but happened too fast. I put that more on HBO than the writers. I think it was always the ending in mind. She was crazier in the books. And she wasn't rational. Her whole world and everything she's been working towards has come crashing down. She wasn't welcomed as a hero and the true rightful Queen like she was always assured she would be. The people went between distrust and hate. They love Jon Snow. He's suddenly not Jon Snow, but has a better claim to the throne now. Two of her dragons die, one becomes an undead monstrosity. Her closest friends and advisers die or betray her. She was not highly rational. Not for a while. The bells ring and she loses her one last chance for revenge and she doesn't care. She takes it anyway.

4. The Northmen were never noble. They were never portrayed as noble. They were portrayed as loyal. They were killing Lannisters and southerners. The enemy. This isn't the first conquering army in the show to go this way. It's not the first northern army to do so either. Unless a Stark was right there watching.

5. He's not a cuckold. Taking aside the fact that using that word as an insult is just moronic from the start, his flaw isn't that he's being emasculated by some manipulative woman. His flaw is what it always has been. It's why Catelyn Stark was always so cold to him in the books. Of all the kids, he was the most like his father. His adoptive father. His flaw is exactly the same as Ned's. It is what is going to get him killed as well.

1. The Clegane fight was fine. Its obvious it was coming. But it felt too artificial. Maybe there was no good way to bring those character together again, but it feels like they didn't even try

2. To that extent? No. If that were the case then their literally would have no zero reason to gather an army. If a single dragon could level King's Landing in minutes then 3 of them could of conquered all of Westeros in a matter of days

3. Yup. That's my point. I have no issue with her being the villain but the writing was awful to make it convincing in the show

4. But again I reiterate. Their own king is telling them to stop and they keep killing. So they aren't loyal either.

5. He believes she's good. I get that. But if that's their angle in the show then they never really gave it time to develop. Again its really more the fault of trying to rush the past two seasons.

[MrLachyG]

so........ Arya didn't get the Cersei kill but will she get the Daenerys kill?

[MakeMeLaugh]

so........ Arya didn't get the Cersei kill but will she get the Daenerys kill?

No, that's for Jon. Arya will kill Drogon while he's flying, with a sneaky jump out of nowhere while using a dragon glass spear.

[Jayma]

I enjoyed the hound/mountain arc. The closure was fulfilling and enjoyable.

Jamie and Cersei's season 8 arc was extremely dissatisfying.
Cersei spending an entire episode as a whimpering victim putting up basically no fight.

I'm fine with Dany turning evil to an extent. The character was complex and her turn to madness was rushed with no depth or nuance.
Maybe she shit her head or something. Her quick snap does not make sense even by Targaryen standards. The mad king was actually batshit crazy and had been for years prior to Jamie killing him.

Bran's season 8 arc has been horrid. Somehow the most mysterious and perhaps powerful character has been a complete empty shell.
Jon's season 8 arc or lack there of has also been extremely unfulfilling.
What has Tyrion done since Season 5? Besides be wrong about everything and everyone.

It just feels like they had no idea how to write the characters once the books stopped. Just blow stuff up add some cgi and hope the huge scale of destruction is enough to keep people hooked long enough for the show to end. Almost like a bad movie.

[Wildberry]

First book was called Game of Thrones. It's the only game that has mattered.

And the entire series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire."

5. He's not a cuckold. Taking aside the fact that using that word as an insult is just moronic from the start,

Oh. rofl.

[buck008]

1. The Clegane fight was fine. Its obvious it was coming. But it felt too artificial. Maybe there was no good way to bring those character together again, but it feels like they didn't even try

2. To that extent? No. If that were the case then their literally would have no zero reason to gather an army. If I single dragon could level King's Landing in minutes then 3 of them could of conquered all of Westeros in a matter of days

3. Yup. That's my point. I have no issue with her being the villain but the writing was awful to make it convincing in the show

4. But again I reiterate. Their own king is telling them to stop and they keep killing. So they aren't loyal either.

5. He believes she's good. I get that. But if that's their angle in the show then they never really gave it time to develop. Again its really more the fault of trying to rush the past two seasons.

Sandor knew what was about to happen. He went there to kill his brother before someone else did. It didn't need any more set up than that, it's been set up.

Three of them could absolutely level the kingdoms with little effort. At that point she was trying to reign them in to win the people. Now she isn't.

I mean, all of that stuff I brought up was in the show. I wasn't bringing outside insight into it. We could have used a transition episode to show that she was gone for good, but it wasn't going to happen unfortunately.

Also, Robb lost control of his men occasionally too. We never really got to see Ned in the field. The men thought they were being loyal to the North, though. They were killing Lannisters.

It's not that he believes she's good. It's that he swore an oath. He'll be true to his word until she no longer gives him a choice. Again, he's Ned's son. He makes Ned's mistakes. Except Jon trusted his family and looped them in. It may not have mattered though.

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And the entire series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire."


Oh. rofl.

Which is why people have been making Jon vs Dany or Jon + Dany predictions forever.

Also, yea, I'm going to go ahead and stand behind that being a stupid insult. It's like people that use gay as an insult. You're just lacing your own insecurities into a thing and throwing it at someone else. But that's super off topic.

[Wildberry]

Which is why people have been making Jon vs Dany or Jon + Dany predictions forever.

ASOIAF describing Dany v. Jon hinged on N+A=J being true and not R+L=J. The latter was confirmed. What does that leave us with regard to things that are heavily associated with Ice? I don't know, probably something in the first chapter of the first book, or the first scene of the first episode or something.

Also, yea, I'm going to go ahead and stand behind that being a stupid insult. It's like people that use gay as an insult. You're just lacing your own insecurities into a thing and throwing it at someone else. But that's super off topic.

"Actually it's just insecurity. Letting other dudes plow your SO is a mark of confidence"
Dying rn (right now).

[Tojara]

I liked everything with Sandor in this episode. His interaction with Arya at the end, and him finally taking down his brother, despite it taking his own life (falling into a mass of fire). Even if they were pushed towards that conclusion, I still enjoyed that part. Also enjoyed Tyrion and Jaime's interaction in the camp.

The only thing I really didn't like was the last ten minutes of Arya nearly dying at every moment, fading to black, only to be revealed that she was still alive. I get however it's suppose to show the chaos in the streets, but anybody watching knew that as soon as those bells starting ringing, chaos was going to ensue.

I could harp on Drogon taking out basically everything, but honestly, this has happened before so I'm not totally surprised.

[Chelly]

What happened to Euron's aimbot this episode? Did he forget to turn on his cheats?

[buck008]

ASOIAF describing Dany v. Jon hinged on N+A=J being true and not R+L=J. The latter was confirmed. What does that leave us with regard to things that are heavily associated with Ice? I don't know, probably something in the first chapter of the first book, or the first scene of the first episode or something.


"Actually it's just insecurity. Letting other dudes plow your SO is a mark of confidence"
Dying rn (right now).

He's still of the North. Despite his true name, he's always been a Stark. Again, he is Ned in many respects.

On the other thing, I'm done. If you'd like to message me out of thread I can give you a pretty lengthy insight into such relationships as a person with some experience, and not the side you will undoubtedly make snide remarks assuming I was.

[Jayma]

There is a reason why none of the theories ended up with this.
Because this ending is too awful to even theorize. We make these guesses with an expectation of some sort of closure for the characters.

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What happened to Euron's aimbot this episode? Did he forget to turn on his cheats?

Well in fairness
They didn't take many shots for whatever reason.

The use of spears and ballista as dragon counters since last season has been maddening. Their accuracy and usefulness changes by such a ridiculous degree from episode to episode.

[MakeMeLaugh]

There is a reason why none of the theories ended up with this.
Because this ending is too awful to even theorize. We make these guesses with an expectation of some sort of closure for the characters.

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Well in fairness
They didn't take many shots for whatever reason.

The use of spears and ballista as dragon counters since last season has been maddening. Their accuracy and usefulness changes by such a ridiculous degree from episode to episode.

Exactly, they writers are too incompetent to make anything but a crap hollywood show.

[RobertoCarlos]

this episode was the best episode in the entire series

[Khaza-R]

Sandor knew what was about to happen. He went there to kill his brother before someone else did. It didn't need any more set up than that, it's been set up.

Three of them could absolutely level the kingdoms with little effort. At that point she was trying to reign them in to win the people. Now she isn't.

I mean, all of that stuff I brought up was in the show. I wasn't bringing outside insight into it. We could have used a transition episode to show that she was gone for good, but it wasn't going to happen unfortunately.

Also, Robb lost control of his men occasionally too. We never really got to see Ned in the field. The men thought they were being loyal to the North, though. They were killing Lannisters.

It's not that he believes she's good. It's that he swore an oath. He'll be true to his word until she no longer gives him a choice. Again, he's Ned's son. He makes Ned's mistakes. Except Jon trusted his family and looped them in. It may not have mattered though.

Whatever floats your boat of low standards. I simply think it could of been told much better.

She's never wanted to win people over. She's demanded absolute loyalty. Her compassion was only shown through the instruction of her advisors. That's the entire crux of her "bend the knee" statement and the entire rational behind why she goes haywire after being betrayed by Jon.

It could of used several episodes of transition. Not just 2.

But not even a single solider listened to Jon. That's my point. It made him look too powerless over his own men

But he does though. She's saved his life twice now. He has no reason up to his point other than to believe she is a good person. The show though, being too rushed gives no time for their relationship to flesh out and for their dynamic to play out. Otherwise Jon might not look like a lackey but someone who is just trying to be loyal to someone he loves

[jimboa24]

So I'm guessing Varys, before he died, already sent ravens all over Westeros to spread the word about Jon Snow's real heritage. Dany will find out next episode that word is out, and will either seriously consider or attempt to kill Jon.

Let me guess: she tells Drogo to light Jon up, and Jon survives the dragon fire just like the NK did.

[BarelyLegalBear]

Let me guess: she tells Drogo to light Jon up, and Jon survives the dragon fire just like the NK did.

I think Drogon would light him up. In an episode from a few seasons ago, he burns his hand iirc.

[Jayma]

What was the point of Jon's resurrection? Why does beric dondarrion serve more purpose than perhaps the show's main character

[Lumineus]

Nah, they stab each other to death in a fit of passion. But Dany uses an obsidian shank from the battle of Winterfell, so Jon becomes the new Lich King.