1. #26361
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    But how could they possibly achieve that without killing the Night King? He can just resurrect the dead by lifting his hands up, giving the First Men no reprieve in fight against him personally as long as he was alive. Even if they were killing the wights with obsidian rendering them useless, he'd still have the corpses of the fallen First Men themselves. Corpses that they wouldn't have the time to burn while being locked in combat against the Night King.

    Even if the First Men sent a massive army north of where the Wall would be to stall the Night King while the Wall was getting constructed (and even then it would only work if someone pulled the Wall out of their ass in an instant), those people would be doomed. And the Night King would just simply get a fresh army. So even if the Wall was pulled out of someone's ass in an instant, what would have stopped the Night King from ordering his fresh army made from the corpses of the sacrificial army that was to stall him to swarm the Wall World War-Z style, as his wights were doing in the battle for Winterfell?
    There is nothing to say that the Night King we see in the show was the only Night King to have ever existed either. Since we are going to be probably getting a show delving into the backstory of all that some more questions might be answered. In the books the Night King isn't even a character yet. The show revealed nothing about him at all, so it's hard to speculate on anything really. We can assume the show Night King was the one the CoTF created in that flashback scene we see, but beyond that we really know nothing.

  2. #26362
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    How about a Citadel​?
    Could be located on a vast glacier. Maybe called Frost Crest.

  3. #26363
    The Lightbringer Tenebra the War Criminal's Avatar
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    Why did the Night King have a beard in the cave under Dragonstone? Could it be that there are multiple Night Kings?

    "I have ignored them for too long. They speak the truth, Arator. And you will hear them. I will make you hear them!"

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  4. #26364
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Why did the Night King have a beard in the cave under Dragonstone? Could it be that there are multiple Night Kings?
    Or maybe beards are out of fashion and he has shaved?

    Who knows?

    *shrug*
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  5. #26365
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    Also during the original Long Night reached as far as Yi-Ti, where the locals fought against a so-called "Lion of Night". It seems like that are multiple independent Night Kings in the world, so maybe Arya killed only one Night King and his army.
    Last edited by Tenebra the War Criminal; 2019-05-08 at 01:57 PM.
    "I have ignored them for too long. They speak the truth, Arator. And you will hear them. I will make you hear them!"

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  6. #26366
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Also during the original Long Night reached as far as Yi-Ti, were the locals fought against a so-called "Lion of Night". It seems like that are multiple independent Night Kings in the world, so maybe Arya killed only one Night King and his army.
    Yeah I suppose it's possible that she killed a Night King instead of the Night King.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  7. #26367
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    So you're saying that an author known for writing things and then completely going back and changing them, due to the amount of details he puts into the entire world, would not give his basic outline for how he MIGHT end it, despite the fact he may change it? Despite the fact that D&D can also change it. And you're saying that because he doesn't own the rights to it like those, the author who penned ASOIAF would be writing a fan-fiction to his own work? Despite the fact that the majority of people only consider what is canon what is written by the original author in a book and not as it is translated by others? Sure. If he specifically says so, but if he doesn't, then no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    If you need to use time travel as an example you should know your whole argument isn't on quite a solid ground.

    Being first definitely means something is "original". You can then argue whether it is better, worse, right or wrong.

    Also, as GRRM has given an outline for the show producers about the storyline - if he eventually deviates from that storyline in his books, he is revisioning his own original story and the TV show's original story as well.
    While this is pieced together by someone from several different interviews, Martin indicates here that he does not intend to change his story's ending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyanTVqlJ2o

    He may have also commented in an interview what sort of creative license he gave HBO (or if HBO gave an interview that details their freedom), but if he or they didn't, then HBO's assumed freedom is speculation.

  8. #26368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byuiso View Post
    He did get outplayed. Bran called out exactly what he would do and he did it. Bran gave the weapon that killed the Night King to Arya. During their stare down Bran broke eye contact with the Night King, looked at his chest and back at him...coincidentally the Night King was stabbed in the chest where Bran was looking by Arya who was given the weapon to kill the Night King by Bran.

    And the Night King story isn't over because of the prequel. He will be a centerpiece of that since it takes place in the Age of Heros and the real Long Night. Unless GRRM has a lot of writing influence on that prequel I see it suffering the same way Game of Thrones is now due to writing.
    Agreed on both points.

    Bad writing aside (because yes there has been) - Bran did exactly what he needed to do. Baited the NK to distraction - so that Ayra could get'em - with yes, the knife/dagger that Bran gave to Ayra. Personally, whether its the directors or GRRM's setup for Bran - I LIKE the fact that the writers make Bran's influence - much like "Fates" or "Destiny's" influence in many works - often about more subtle influences that shift outcomes.

    Bran is no longer human. He's no longer a Stark. Other than "keep the human race going" he has no real motive or stake in anything else - functioning as the "living history" of mankind. He's never been about sweeping magical-awesome that sends hundreds of animals attacking anything. He's (esp. since he got turned into a demi-being) always very methodical, very planned, steps - that shift things going the right direction. I LIKE that subtle influence of "fate" on the outcome. The idea that barely any of the characters understand, or have any idea, who/what Bran is or how important his influence is/has been -- and the fact that the audience has apparently bought into that (even though they've seen otherwise) I find amusing.

    And I also agree - the Night King's story isnt' over because of the 3 spinoff shows - and yes because of the "Long Night" series they are doing. He's not coming back in the next two episodes (or they just really jump the shark). And I pretty much expect that without GRRM's direction to go on - its going to be "even darker/more depressing medieval life - but now with ice zombies!" and that's about all it will be.


    ~~

    Also apparently my memory is better than others (because last couple of weeks I've been watching a lot of mid-series reruns lol), or I"m just misremembering - but I could have *sworn* that when Danny promised to go North to help fight against the NK/Wrights she specifically SAID they were leaving dothraki and unsullied behind at DragonRock? (this would have been last season obviously)

    I know when I saw the Dothraki "charge" into the NK armies - there weren't near as many numbers as supposedly came over with her originally (?) and had this clear memory of that strategy talk around the Big Table at DragonRock. She wasn't taking them all.

    So neither the smaller number at the NK fight nor the statement of having forces left afterwards - surprised me at all.

    Am I really the only one that remembers that? Or am I just delusional and all the dragonrock talks ran together already? =D
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  9. #26369
    Scarab Lord Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    If it wasn't clear from the beginning: Dany is crazy. The only reason she didn't go full on Mad Queen before is that she had people she trusted as advisors. Now that her closest friends and advisors are all dead, she will show her true nature.
    That really isn't how she was written prior to this season though, I kind of like her character arc. She was about the only genuinely flawed heroic character in the show. While Ned/Rob/Jon are shown as basically purely noble, and their failings are just caused by being too good for this cruel world, Dany has legit character flaws.

    She is smart, powerful, and impulsive, but she is still her father's daughter and she knows it. She chose her advisors specifically to reign in her worst impulses, because she is aware of her flaws. Missandre especially was clearly chosen for that role, Dany clearly didn't need her as an interpreter. But we have seen her repeatedly be willing to talked back from the edge when she was super pissed off, because she was legitimately dedicated to doing the right thing and not turned into her father or brother.

    I disagree that full mad queen is her "True Nature", but it is a part of it her nature. She knows it and tries to combat it though. I hope she doesn't totally lose control and go full villain, because I think it makes it a better arc as a heroic one rather then a fall to darkness path.

    “What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ?” -Paarthurnax
    Last edited by Thekri; 2019-05-08 at 04:13 PM.

  10. #26370
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Unless she was one of those people I don't get what argument are you making here. Also, no one was really claiming that to justify the shit writing.
    I was saying (that night) that LF's plan was shit writing, he should have foreseen this coming, and the potential "trauma will make you stronger" plotline which was inevitable from that point, was also shit writing - as if Sansa couldn't have become strong without being raped.....


    1) ...which is exactly Chastain's point. There's a serious lack of reading comprehension on these forums, sometimes. She's saying rape doesn't necessarily make one stronger, and Sansa didn't need to be always a little bird without being raped/manipulated by LF. She's separating the empowerment of the woman, from the act, which is never empowering. Your response can be empowering, sure, but the action is neither b) necessary, or b) related to the empowerment. Hell, it isn't even the outcome in most cases. IE, Sansa could have left with the Hound, and become a powerful character regardless, because her naivete was justifiably dispelled by Joff. So the line that she "needed" LF and Ramsay to "not be a little bird" is a shit line that betrays the character. To Rory's credit as an actor, he just looks kinda incredulous at that line, though I'm fairly sure D&D didn't give him any direction to act that way.

    2) Sansa isn't even more powerful or a good player of the game now. She's just as paranoid and distrustful as Dany, but with less power. And, she wears those emotions on her face for her supposed rival to see, which feeds into Dany's paranoia. She's lost her sense of morals, betraying Jon's trust, and is constantly and needlessly trying to undermine her perceived rival. And let's not pretend this isn't self-serving. She knows Jon will be Warden in the North if the status quo just stays the same - but that would leave her with nothing. If she had truly learned to be a player in the game, if her trauma had made her a confident badass, she'd smile at Dany all the time and promise her everything while stabbing her in the back. She's instead D&D's version of a powerful woman - paranoid and self-serving.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    GRRM doesn't own the rights alone anymore.
    Yes, yes he does. If he didn't, he wouldn't be allowed to write the last two books. The TV show is specifically an "adaptation" which has been authorized by GRRM. Just like all their spinoffs have to be authorized by GRRM, who......still holds the rights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    That really isn't how she was written prior to this season though, I kind of like her character arc. She was about the only genuinely flawed heroic character in the show. While Ned/Rob/Jon are shown as basically purely noble, and their failings are just caused by being too good for this cruel world, Dany has legit character flaws.
    She's been showing signs of crazy since she arrived in Slaver's Bay. You can reasonably make the argument she's been slightly mad since Drogo's death. This is literally the only plotline that made sense in last week's episode.

  11. #26371
    Scarab Lord Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I was saying (that night) that LF's plan was shit writing, he should have foreseen this coming, and the potential "trauma will make you stronger" plotline which was inevitable from that point, was also shit writing - as if Sansa couldn't have become strong without being raped.....


    1) ...which is exactly Chastain's point. There's a serious lack of reading comprehension on these forums, sometimes. She's saying rape doesn't necessarily make one stronger, and Sansa didn't need to be always a little bird without being raped/manipulated by LF. She's separating the empowerment of the woman, from the act, which is never empowering. Your response can be empowering, sure, but the action is neither b) necessary, or b) related to the empowerment. Hell, it isn't even the outcome in most cases. IE, Sansa could have left with the Hound, and become a powerful character regardless, because her naivete was justifiably dispelled by Joff. So the line that she "needed" LF and Ramsay to "not be a little bird" is a shit line that betrays the character. To Rory's credit as an actor, he just looks kinda incredulous at that line, though I'm fairly sure D&D didn't give him any direction to act that way.

    2) Sansa isn't even more powerful or a good player of the game now. She's just as paranoid and distrustful as Dany, but with less power. And, she wears those emotions on her face for her supposed rival to see, which feeds into Dany's paranoia. She's lost her sense of morals, betraying Jon's trust, and is constantly and needlessly trying to undermine her perceived rival. And let's not pretend this isn't self-serving. She knows Jon will be Warden in the North if the status quo just stays the same - but that would leave her with nothing. If she had truly learned to be a player in the game, if her trauma had made her a confident badass, she'd smile at Dany all the time and promise her everything while stabbing her in the back. She's instead D&D's version of a powerful woman - paranoid and self-serving.
    Agreed, I am a long way from a SJW, but GoT seems to have no idea how to write female characters without playing to the absolutely worst stereotypes, especially in season 8. They used to be much better at this, characters like Margery were pretty convincing female characters. Yeah she was manipulative, but she wasn't really an evil conniving bitch about it. She was just using the tools that were at her disposal to achieve her agenda, and it wasn't really a destructive effort.

    The remaining ones have all been done dirty by ham-fisted stereotypes in the last few episodes.

    Cersei: Always an evil schemer, but now she doesn't even have an agenda any more, just a pure force of evil that is not really different then the night king. She has no complexity left.
    Dany: Always emotional, but it a plausible and character driven way. Now she is just spiraling into paranoia and emotional outbursts. Which demonstrates why women are clearly not fit to rule, and we need a nice reliable man to take charge now.
    Sansa: You can either be naïve and good, or you can be a clever backstabbing monster. Apparently there is no middle ground here. Sansa now has chronic backstabbing disorder, and of course she explicitly acknowledges that she allowed everything that happened to her to completely define her. I personally think that line about rape is pretty in line with her character now, but that isn't a good thing. She thinks she has to be as bad as her enemies to win.
    Brienne: Holy shit. Really? They reduced her to a lovesick girl crying in her nightgown as Jamie rides away? What is the message here? That she was just an ugly girl overcompensating, and all she ever really needed was a good man to settle down with? 6 seasons of character development disappeared in one drinking session.
    Arya: If you are a woman, you can't balance your talents and personality with a fulfilling relationship. You are either a wife and mother or you are a soulless monster. This is the exact template that has been applied to every female character that is still alive over the last two seasons.

    This isn't about some sort of social justice, this is just about crappy writing that comes from an unabashedly male viewpoint. I don't think they are actually trying to make a statement, I think they just have no idea what to do with a female character. I guess in their defense, their male characters aren't really handled any better this season, all of them have been reduced to flat stereotypes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    She's been showing signs of crazy since she arrived in Slaver's Bay. You can reasonably make the argument she's been slightly mad since Drogo's death. This is literally the only plotline that made sense in last week's episode.
    That is my point though. She has always been this way, but she has been slowly losing control of it. I don't really have any issue with how it is progressing, I was just hoping that she turns it around instead of coasting all the way to the bottom. Because I would much prefer she turns it around and becomes the good ruler she clearly also has the capability to be. The coin could land on either edge, but I would prefer it winds up on the good side because Jon is just a boring character.

  12. #26372
    They literally had to have Cersei get pregnant again to justify her trope-y "motherly madness" where she does all the evil shit she does to "protect her children" like Tyrion said this past week.

  13. #26373
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    They literally had to have Cersei get pregnant again to justify her trope-y "motherly madness" where she does all the evil shit she does to "protect her children" like Tyrion said this past week.
    Makes more sense than to do evil shit just for giggles.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  14. #26374
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelyn View Post
    DUDE no fricking spoilers for other shows please!!! Here in the UK we haven't had this episode yet.

    Fuck's sake. Mind what you are writing please.

    Its VeeP, lol. Not even a major plot point, no fucks given. Report the comment if you want.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  15. #26375
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Agreed, I am a long way from a SJW, but GoT seems to have no idea how to write female characters without playing to the absolutely worst stereotypes, especially in season 8. They used to be much better at this, characters like Margery were pretty convincing female characters. Yeah she was manipulative, but she wasn't really an evil conniving bitch about it. She was just using the tools that were at her disposal to achieve her agenda, and it wasn't really a destructive effort.

    The remaining ones have all been done dirty by ham-fisted stereotypes in the last few episodes.

    Cersei: Always an evil schemer, but now she doesn't even have an agenda any more, just a pure force of evil that is not really different then the night king. She has no complexity left.
    Dany: Always emotional, but it a plausible and character driven way. Now she is just spiraling into paranoia and emotional outbursts. Which demonstrates why women are clearly not fit to rule, and we need a nice reliable man to take charge now.
    Sansa: You can either be naïve and good, or you can be a clever backstabbing monster. Apparently there is no middle ground here. Sansa now has chronic backstabbing disorder, and of course she explicitly acknowledges that she allowed everything that happened to her to completely define her. I personally think that line about rape is pretty in line with her character now, but that isn't a good thing. She thinks she has to be as bad as her enemies to win.
    Brienne: Holy shit. Really? They reduced her to a lovesick girl crying in her nightgown as Jamie rides away? What is the message here? That she was just an ugly girl overcompensating, and all she ever really needed was a good man to settle down with? 6 seasons of character development disappeared in one drinking session.
    Arya: If you are a woman, you can't balance your talents and personality with a fulfilling relationship. You are either a wife and mother or you are a soulless monster. This is the exact template that has been applied to every female character that is still alive over the last two seasons.

    This isn't about some sort of social justice, this is just about crappy writing that comes from an unabashedly male viewpoint. I don't think they are actually trying to make a statement, I think they just have no idea what to do with a female character. I guess in their defense, their male characters aren't really handled any better this season, all of them have been reduced to flat stereotypes.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That is my point though. She has always been this way, but she has been slowly losing control of it. I don't really have any issue with how it is progressing, I was just hoping that she turns it around instead of coasting all the way to the bottom. Because I would much prefer she turns it around and becomes the good ruler she clearly also has the capability to be. The coin could land on either edge, but I would prefer it winds up on the good side because Jon is just a boring character.
    This is as pro SJW as GoT can get. You have many powerful women that can do more than many other men. But it cannot go out of common sense. You cannot be agressive, competitive and a good mother at the same time. They are polar opposite states.

  16. #26376
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Makes more sense than to do evil shit just for giggles.
    Why does it have to be one or the other? Cercei was never a great person for sure, but for two seasons literally all she has done is stare smugly at stuff while ordering lolevil actions to be performed. Her character is as flat as the Night King now.

  17. #26377
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Why does it have to be one or the other? Cercei was never a great person for sure, but for two seasons literally all she has done is stare smugly at stuff while ordering lolevil actions to be performed. Her character is as flat as the Night King now.

    sHe iS sO NuancEd.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  18. #26378
    Scarab Lord Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    This is as pro SJW as GoT can get. You have many powerful women that can do more than many other men. But it cannot go out of common sense. You cannot be agressive, competitive and a good mother at the same time. They are polar opposite states.
    Weird, because history is absolutely loaded with women that did exactly that. Most of them did it more like Margery, they were never the historical headliner, but they were the power behind the throne. Look at Jackie Kennedy for a perfect example.

  19. #26379
    The Lightbringer Tenebra the War Criminal's Avatar
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    just a pure force of evil that is not really different then the night king. She has no complexity left.
    The Night King was not evil.

    D.B. Weiss: "I don’t think of the Night King as a villain," he said. "He is not like Joffrey, or Ramses [sic] … To me, evil comes when you have a choice between that and good, and you choose the wrong way. The Night King doesn’t have a choice; he was created that way."

    David Benioff: "I don’t think of him as evil, I think of him as Death,” Benioff told EW. “And that’s what he wants — for all of us. It’s why he was created and that’s what he’s after.”
    "I have ignored them for too long. They speak the truth, Arator. And you will hear them. I will make you hear them!"

    Alleria fan.

  20. #26380
    I wonder if anything is ever going to come of Dany possibly getting pregnant. Seems like that’s another thing that’s going to be forgotten for the sake of subverted expectations.

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