[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Wilian]

I don't get why people love being harsh to Dany. I guess it's the Frozen Effect.

I dunno, maybe because she's a silly teen girl incapable of leading as shown by various grievous mistakes she does during her rule?

[BloodyAngel12]

I dunno, maybe because she's a silly teen girl incapable of leading as shown by various grievous mistakes she does during her rule?

Call it a trial run for when she will rule Westeros

[Wilian]

Call it a trial run for when she will rule Westeros

So far her trial run has been disaster and does not spark any confidence for future capabilities.

[BloodyAngel12]

So far her trial run has been disaster and does not spark any confidence for future capabilities.

By that time who is going to argue with a women and 3 full grown dragons :P

[Graeham]

By that time who is going to argue with a women and 3 full grown dragons :P

...which in turn is part of why I find her so boring. If she manages to conquer Westeros through swooping in at the last minute with three dragons it'll be very boring. I'd much prefer to see her being set up for a massive fall - along with Jon Snow and Tyrion. I don't want the ending to be predictable, especially with all the twists that the arguably more interesting characters have endured. The 'big three' just seem to be encased in convenient plot armour, especially in the show.

[Grimbold21]

In the show, Varys is taking Tyrion to Bravos and there appears to be no Illyrio, so Varys is the one making the suggestion instead.

Illyrio appeared on s1 conspiring with Varys in the catacombs of the red keep i think

[Fencers]

Illyrio appeared on s1 conspiring with Varys in the catacombs of the red keep i think

They did show Illyrio in S1.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...nd_Illyrio.jpg

[Grimbold21]

They did show Illyrio in S1.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...nd_Illyrio.jpg

Yes, he's the one that appears on the 1st episodes arranging whatever it is for the Daenerys / Drogo marriage

[Arrowstormen]

...which in turn is part of why I find her so boring. If she manages to conquer Westeros through swooping in at the last minute with three dragons it'll be very boring. I'd much prefer to see her being set up for a massive fall - along with Jon Snow and Tyrion. I don't want the ending to be predictable, especially with all the twists that the arguably more interesting characters have endured. The 'big three' just seem to be encased in convenient plot armour, especially in the show.

It wouldn't be a twist at this point, it would just be a very lame ending. Certain people can't die because basic storytelling requirements. Dany dying before she ever did anything or returned would make her pointless. Those three are the main-main characters of A Song of Ice and Fire, they've been around since the beginning and have always been big characters, and they've each had a pretty cool and unique journey so far. Sure Dany has flaws, but I can't comprehend people disliking her so vigorously for it. She's trying to be a good leader and doing the obvious good of freeing slaves, and her arc shows how hard it is to do, and all the problems that arise.

BTW, if Aegon and Quentyn is cut, what the heck is Doran doing?

[Wilian]

She's trying to be a good leader and doing the obvious good of freeing slaves, and her arc shows how hard it is to do, and all the problems that arise.

It's her utter naivety, repetition of mistakes and absolute lack of paying attention to what her more experienced companions are trying to drive through that thick skull that makes her unbearable.

Just like how Eddard Stark was a total, selfish moron who'd put his honor over doing what is actually right, aka protect his family first and then worry about other shit second.

[Arrowstormen]

It's her utter naivety, repetition of mistakes and absolute lack of paying attention to what her more experienced companions are trying to drive through that thick skull that makes her unbearable.

Just like how Eddard Stark was a total, selfish moron who'd put his honor over doing what is actually right, aka protect his family first and then worry about other shit second.

Pfft, right. I'm sure the Hate on the Good Guys Club is very hip.

[eschatological]

I don't believe you could put Eddard in the same camp as Dany. Part of doing what's right is doing what's right even if it puts you and your loved ones in danger. The protection of one's family isn't some "ultimate right" that subjugates all other right things to do. That's how Cersei operates, and see how that's worked out?

[Wilian]

Pfft, right. I'm sure the Hate on the Good Guys Club is very hip.

It's not "hate on the good guys club". It's "seeing these very real errors of conduct on the part of these characters that cause massive grief to people and judging them by it" club.

Robb Stark was just like his father, mistake after mistake in the name of "honour" that ultimately led to his own death and deaths of those he held close. They weren't the good guys, they were the idiots.

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I don't believe you could put Eddard in the same camp as Dany. Part of doing what's right is doing what's right even if it puts you and your loved ones in danger. The protection of one's family isn't some "ultimate right" that subjugates all other right things to do. That's how Cersei operates, and see how that's worked out?

But he could've very easily done things differently. For example, send the kids to safety before going all bla bla to Cersei. He was unable to think straight because of his conduct.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Tyrion is filled with rage. Danerys will let him deliver a bloody chastisement to the whole of the Seven Kingdoms, and its would be difficult for her to be worse than Robert, Joffery, Cersi and crew. As for Varys, there's a certain theory floating around about his ancestry... and while I doubt the show is going to bring the Blackfyre pretenders in at all, ask yourself, "What color is Varys' hair, and why might he want to keep it shaved off?"

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I disagree with all these. I think its taking him a long time to write, because he's spending a lot of time on the con circuit, traveling around, enjoying having made it big - and he's perfectly entitled to do that; it just means that its going to take a lot longer to finish the next chapters in his mammoth series, because he's not ultimately spending that much time on it. (I suspect there's also a strong desire to get it "right", and that it gets harder to write as everything gets closer to the climax.

Martin traveling around in circuits has absolutely no impact on when the book is released, considering he doesn't actually write the script word for word anymore.

Call it a trial run for when she will rule Westeros

I seriously doubt she will rule on the Iron Throne; the writers are too good for that. My guess is she will establish her kingdom in Essos, while the survivors of the War of the Five Kings and the Long Night will stand on top Westeros in the end.

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Robb Stark was just like his father, mistake after mistake in the name of "honour" that ultimately led to his own death and deaths of those he held close. They weren't the good guys, they were the idiots.

Not idiots. The Starks were fortituous; they stood by their principles regardless of what happened; they didn't forsake morality when the going got tough. That's a quality pretty hard to come by. They may have died, but unlike most other people in the series, Robb and Edd carved meaning out of a meaningless world through their honor.

[Graeham]

Pfft, right. I'm sure the Hate on the Good Guys Club is very hip.

Not too sure I'd consider Ned Stark a full on good guy. Every character has shades of grey, him included. He supported Robert and turned a blind eye to his faults which could have prevented a lot of trouble. His son didn't fare much better, doing questionable things in the name of 'honour' and clinging to a holier-than-thou attitude at every turn.

[Frontenac]

Not too sure I'd consider Ned Stark a full on good guy. Every character has shades of grey, him included. He supported Robert and turned a blind eye to his faults which could have prevented a lot of trouble. His son didn't fare much better, doing questionable things in the name of 'honour' and clinging to a holier-than-thou attitude at every turn.

Being a good guy does not mean to be perfect. Of course Ned Stark has flaws, like everyone. However, his moral stance is the archetype of the "lawful good" hero in D&D. Ned Stark supports Robert because he is the rightful King (well, technically he's a usurper, but he was still the one with the best rights to the throne after the Targs are gone). When he is Hand of the King, Ned does not turn a blind eye to Robert's action. On the contrary, he's the only one openly opposing him in the Small Council. He has (or may have not) fathered a bastard, which is against the loyalty he should have had towards Cat. However, he admitted his fault and raised Jon as if he was a legitimate child. So you have a guy that is principled, loyal, true, honorable, generous and just (and probably the best father model this story has as far as I know). What else do you need to be a good guy? Ned's problem was that he did not have the cunning and the skill to navigate in the treacherous and putrid moral swamp that is King's Landing. But that does not make him any less a good guy.

[apepi]

I don't get why people love being harsh to Dany. I guess it's the Frozen Effect.

I just see her kinda naive.

[Arrowstormen]

I just see her kinda naive.

She's not even 20 years old, and trying to do good doesn't make somebody naive.

[Zelk]

Can't believe they're getting rid of the Greyjoy and Aegon storylines for more of the worst character in the books and the show. Seriously, fuck Daenerys.

[Gallahadd]

Can't believe they're getting rid of the Greyjoy and Aegon storylines for more of the worst character in the books and the show. Seriosuly, fuck Daenerys.

Agreed. You just know this season will be 75% Dany, Jon and Tyrion, maybe 10% Arya, Stannis the Mannis and Ramsey and the rest of the time for everyone else...

I don't know why, but I get the feeling I might not finish this season.