[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't know why this keeps being said when there is clearly a figure parallel to the Night King in the books:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Other

- The Night King from the show is the oldest, most powerful, best, most badass, leader of the White Walkers;

- The "Great Other" from the books is an "Other" who is so special that he is called "Great".


From the show, we know that the Night King literally created every single White Walkers. He was the first and he created the entire race, by kidnapping children and turning them into his minions. That's why they were all destroyed when the Night King died. Beric Dondarrion even stated that the Night King "turned them all".

In that earlier quote I gave you from the wikia, you can replace "Others" with "White Walkers" and "Great Other" with "Night King" and you literally get the situation from the show.





The above quotes prove that this Great Other is not some astral entity that doesn't exist, he is present physically on Planetos and is gathering his forces Beyond the Wall, to prepare for the Great War. Like the Night King had been doing for seven seasons.

GRRM wanted Arya to kill the Great Other and end the Long Night. He watched the reactions to 8x03 and realized that everyone sane disliked the idea of the big bad dying to a ninja teen, so now he's in a writing corner and doesn't know what to do.

Eh....

I really doubt the reason hes been enjoying paid meals from fans instead of writing is because people got mad the little girl did some quick hands and quickly ended the series.

He wasnt even attempting to finish it before the last season of the show and has been busy with other work.

[deenman]

Yeah, because he realized from the show's horrendous reception that no one liked his ending, so now he has written himself into a corner and he has to change the entire ending. He'll never finish his work and Season 8 will be the legacy of Game of Thrones, unless the upcoming Jon Snow sequel can somehow retcon it by bringing back the Night King/White Walkers and Daenerys.

I wonder, did he genuinely believe people would have liked Bran as King? A character so boring, so lame, so uninspired, that he was literally absent for an entire season?

the ending of season 8 is perfectly fine,how the show got there made zero sense in the last 2 seasons,im sure the books will end the same way,but the journey would have made more sense

[DarkAmbient]

I don't know why this keeps being said when there is clearly a figure parallel to the Night King in the books:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Other

- The Night King from the show is the oldest, most powerful, best, most badass, leader of the White Walkers;

- The "Great Other" from the books is an "Other" who is so special that he is called "Great".

From the show, we know that the Night King literally created every single White Walkers. He was the first and he created the entire race, by kidnapping children and turning them into his minions. That's why they were all destroyed when the Night King died. Beric Dondarrion even stated that the Night King "turned them all".

In that earlier quote I gave you from the wikia, you can replace "Others" with "White Walkers" and "Great Other" with "Night King" and you literally get the situation from the show.

The above quotes prove that this Great Other is not some astral entity that doesn't exist, he is present physically on Planetos and is gathering his forces Beyond the Wall, to prepare for the Great War. Like the Night King had been doing for seven seasons.

GRRM wanted Arya to kill the Great Other and end the Long Night. He watched the reactions to 8x03 and realized that everyone sane disliked the idea of the big bad dying to a ninja teen, so now he's in a writing corner and doesn't know what to do.

What's funny to me is that some GRRM fanboys claim that DnD ruined the White Walkers, that they are not supposed to be just a weapon created by humanity in the books. Well, Melisandre literally called them "children" of the Great Other... it's clear that the origins of the White Walkers are the same between the mediums and they were both going to be defeated in the same way (by taking out Night King/Great Other).

The Night King and the The Great Other are not quite analogous. The Great Other isn't called Great because he's special. It's because he's an actual deity, the opposite of R'hllor according to Melisandre's religion. Saying the Night King is the Great Other is like saying Jon Snow is the Lord of Light. There is currently no Night King figure in the novels.

[Varodoc]

The Night King and the The Great Other are not quite analogous. The Great Other isn't called Great because he's special. It's because he's an actual deity, the opposite of R'hllor according to Melisandre's religion. Saying the Night King is the Great Other is like saying Jon Snow is the Lord of Light. There is currently no Night King figure in the novels.

The Night King is clearly treated as a Deity in the context of the show. Melisandre explicitly mentions him in S6, so clearly the Night King is what is worrying her (just like, in the book, it's the Great Other). "What do we say to the God of Death? Not today" is referring to the Night King and how he wasn't going to kill Arya that night. After the Night King's defeat, Melisandre, the fanatic of the Lord of Light, commits suicide (meaning that she thinks her duty was fulfilled i.e. the ancient enemy of her religion was defeated). Davos literally mentions how he feels like the Lord of Light "fucked off" after the Night King died.

The Night King is clearly built up as the antithesis of the Lord of Light. He is the ancient enemy of the Lord of Light. He is the God of Death. That's why, after he's destroyed, Melisandre commits suicide and the LoL fucked off. With the Night King gone, no other threat in Planetos was worthy of their attention.

I mean, it's not exactly a secret that 8x03 had a terrible reception and that most people were probably expecting the White Walkers to last longer than one night and to get farther than Winterfell. GRRM was going to have the Great Other and the Others be destroyed at Winterfell (most likely by Jon Snow, since the prophecy mattered a lot more in the books and we know that Arya saving the day was DnD's decision). Regardless, after he saw the fiasco of 8x03, he obviously changed his mind, and that's why you'll be waiting forever for his next book.

Damn, it's almost like people have high expectations for a threat you set up since the very beginning. So people are expecting that threat to at least reach the capital of the kingdom, instead of being stopped literally at the first battle of the """"Great"""" War.

[cubby]

Yeah, because he realized from the show's horrendous reception that no one liked his ending, so now he has written himself into a corner and he has to change the entire ending. He'll never finish his work and Season 8 will be the legacy of Game of Thrones, unless the upcoming Jon Snow sequel can somehow retcon it by bringing back the Night King/White Walkers and Daenerys.

I wonder, did he genuinely believe people would have liked Bran as King? A character so boring, so lame, so uninspired, that he was literally absent for an entire season?

Love it when people say this. Literally millions of people loved the ending of GoT, they just don't need to keep spewing out that opinion. It's fine if you didn't like it, but don't pretend that many people did.

Bran as king was a fantastic choice - he's a choice no one saw coming (who cares if he's boring, he's the cornerstone for the resolution of at least two major subplots), can rule without all the BS that comes with deception, and completes the goal of "breaking the wheel". It's brilliant, just entirely unconventional - and completely how GRRM does his plots, unconventionally.

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I mean, it's not exactly a secret that 8x03 had a terrible reception and that most people were probably expecting the White Walkers to last longer than one night and to get farther than Winterfell. GRRM was going to have the Great Other and the Others be destroyed at Winterfell (most likely by Jon Snow, since the prophecy mattered a lot more in the books and we know that Arya saving the day was DnD's decision). Regardless, after he saw the fiasco of 8x03, he obviously changed his mind, and that's why you'll be waiting forever for his next book.

If it comes out at all. If he is rewriting significant portions and plot lines, it will take even longer. And that man is not in great health, and no longer young.

[Mehrunes]

Love it when people say this. Literally millions of people loved the ending of GoT, they just don't need to keep spewing out that opinion. It's fine if you didn't like it, but don't pretend that many people did.

How about you listen to your own preaching for once? GRRM mentioned multiple times in recent weeks that he's afraid for the reception of the House of Dragon because of how severe the reaction to GoT was. And that's years after that show ended. There's no need to pretend that many people didn't like the ending, it's literally a fact.

[TickTickTick]

The fat guy says people should stop asking him when winds of winter will be out, he won't bother with setting dates anymore.

At this point I'm sure the books are ready already and the publisher wants to release them when Martin dies to boost sales.

[Sorrowseer]

At this point I'm sure the books are ready already and the publisher wants to release them when Martin dies to boost sales.

Thats morbidly hilarious.

[Celista]

I cannot believe The Winds of Winter is still not out yet.

House of the Dragon looks promising. Saw episode 1, watching 2 after work this evening. My only real gripe is that Rhaenyra Targaryen reminds me too strongly of Daenerys and Daemon Targaryen is far too reminiscent of Ramsay Bolton (also a bit of Joffrey). If I close my eyes, Daemon and Ramsay sound nearly identical to me.

I'm not complaining too hard because I'm still going to watch and enjoy it.

Will head over to the HotD thread after watching tonight...

[Wilian]

Wait did a [spoilr]Stark die in the tournament?[/spoier] The dad seemed pretty chill later when he was [spoile] swearing fealty[/spiler]

Fixed this one for you.

[Ihavewaffles]

‘Game Of Thrones’ Creators David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Open Up About Their Split From HBO, And Confirm Longstanding Rumor About That Finale

https://deadline.com/2024/02/game-of...le-1235835810/
By Greg Evans - February 23, 2024 1:09pm

Forget widescreen: Game of Thrones creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss say HBO‘s one-time owner AT&T actually requested the series be shot vertically so it could be watched on cell phones.

In a new article in Wall St. Journal‘s WSJ Magazine to promote their upcoming Netflix series 3 Body Problem, Benioff and Weiss open up about why they ditched their longtime perch at HBO for the streaming service.

“When you sign a five-year deal with a company,” Benioff says, “you want that company to be stable so you can be left alone to do your work and not have to worry about it being bought by the phone company.” The pair left HBO for Netflix just several months after the Game of Thrones 2019 series finale in what WSJ estimates was a deal worth between $200 million and $300 million.

Other disagreements with AT&T included execs’ proposal of shooting “snackable mini-episodes” of the epic series.

“Dysfunction kills more projects than anything else,” Weiss tells the magazine, “whether it’s interpersonal
dysfunction or institutional dysfunction.”

Benioff and Weiss also confirm a long-standing rumor that the duo pitched the idea of bringing GoT to a close with three feature films rather than what would eventually come to pass: 13 episodes spread over two seasons.

HBO executives rebuffed the idea, reminding the creators that, as Benioff says, they were making a series for “Home Box Office” and not, as Weiss adds, “Away Box Office.”

3 Body Problem is thought to be one of Netflix’s most expensive projects ever, with WSJ estimating the per-episode cost “in the $20 million range.” Based on a popular science fiction book series by Chinese author Liu Cixin, the series, which debuts this spring and is the first Benioff-Weiss collaboration with third showrunner Alexander Woo, chronicles “a slow-moving alien invasion of Earth.”

Says Benioff, “One of the things that attracted us to this was how terrifying it was to contemplate adapting these books, because they’re so vast.”

[cubby]

Just caught another short scene in S3 where Barristan and Daenerys are talking about what the mad king did, and how she won't become the mad king, etc. It includes a line of the mad king "burning sons in front of fathers". And then we see in S8 she does just that. Definitely a small tid bit, but more "evidence" that her decline to madness was planned all along.

[Varodoc]

Just caught another short scene in S3 where Barristan and Daenerys are talking about what the mad king did, and how she won't become the mad king, etc. It includes a line of the mad king "burning sons in front of fathers". And then we see in S8 she does just that. Definitely a small tid bit, but more "evidence" that her decline to madness was planned all along.

Wasn't it clear enough when she threatened to burn entire cities to the ground in S2?

The story of Daenerys is a perfect metaphor of how easily the sheeple are blinded by good looks.

[RobertoCarlos]

Wasn't it clear enough when she threatened to burn entire cities to the ground in S2?

The story of Daenerys is a perfect metaphor of how easily the sheeple are blinded by good looks.

The point wasn't that dany went mad but the speed at which it happened was the issue. They ran her arc at 2.0x speed like all of the last 2-3 seasons for everyone's story

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Also the Jon snow spin off has been cancelled if anyone was actually waiting for it which I doubt

[Adamas102]

Just caught another short scene in S3 where Barristan and Daenerys are talking about what the mad king did, and how she won't become the mad king, etc. It includes a line of the mad king "burning sons in front of fathers". And then we see in S8 she does just that. Definitely a small tid bit, but more "evidence" that her decline to madness was planned all along.

Jesus, dude, just fucking drop it. No one cares about GoT anymore after it shit the bed and has now been upstaged by its (so far superior) spinoff.

First off, if a character says they're not going to do something, having them do that thing WAY later in the story isn't foreshadowing. In this case it's certainly no indication of "planned all along". If what the Mad King did was meant to be taken as an indication of what his descendants would do then it applies to Jon just as much as it applies to Dany.

Secondly, Dany didn't "burn sons in front of fathers". If you're talking about her burning the Tarlys then you're talking about something completely different. Aerys burned people for fun, or because they annoyed him. THAT'S madness. Executing enemy combatants after giving them an option to change allegiances is in no way the same thing.

Thanks for pointing out again how you don't at all understand the story or the characters, even 4 years after the show concluded.

[cubby]

Wasn't it clear enough when she threatened to burn entire cities to the ground in S2?

There are so many little pieces like that through the series and books showing her descent was always planned. I've always felt her turn to madness was entirely justified by the series. People have disagreed on both, though. Whether it was ever justified and then the speed at which she descended.

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Jesus, dude, just fucking drop it. No one cares about GoT anymore after it shit the bed and has now been upstaged by its (so far superior) spinoff.

All evidence to the contrary....
You get how ironic your statement is, right? Because you seem to care a TON to continue both responding to my posts and then shitposting when you do. If you really believe the above, stop responding. We'll all wait while you own-goal yourself again.

First off, if a character says they're not going to do something, having them do that thing WAY later in the story isn't foreshadowing. In this case it's certainly no indication of "planned all along". If what the Mad King did was meant to be taken as an indication of what his descendants would do then it applies to Jon just as much as it applies to Dany.

You misread what I said, and you don't understand foreshadowing. Danny didn't say she wouldn't do it, Barristan said that's what her father did. That scene, as well as many others, show her descent was planned and justified.

Secondly, Dany didn't "burn sons in front of fathers". If you're talking about her burning the Tarlys then you're talking about something completely different. Aerys burned people for fun, or because they annoyed him. THAT'S madness. Executing enemy combatants after giving them an option to change allegiances is in no way the same thing.

She literally burned a son in front of her father. It's another small piece of the overall puzzle clearly demonstrating her descent into madness was always planned.

Thanks for pointing out again how you don't at all understand the story or the characters, even 4 years after the show concluded.

Thanks for having such a hard-on for me and my posts. I noticed how you didn't respond to the last person who brought up the ending.

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Also the Jon snow spin off has been cancelled if anyone was actually waiting for it which I doubt

The spin-off they need is Arya. That would be amazing.

[Varodoc]

Game of Thrones was the most popular and iconic TV show of the 2010s.

House of the Dragon and Dunk and Egg TV shows of the 2020s are completely living in the shadow of GoT and are trying desperately to milk the brand, but they will never be nearly as popular or iconic as GoT in the 2010s.

Despite the hate S8 gets from the sheeple who named their kid "Khaleesi", GoT remains a highly-profitable brand or they wouldn't be making two spin-off shows about it.

[cubby]

Game of Thrones was the most popular and iconic TV show of the 2010s.

House of the Dragon and Dunk and Egg TV shows of the 2020s are completely living in the shadow of GoT and are trying desperately to milk the brand, but they will never be nearly as popular or iconic as GoT in the 2010s.

Despite the hate S8 gets from the sheeple who named their kid "Khaleesi", GoT remains a highly-profitable brand or they wouldn't be making two spin-off shows about it.

It is interesting that people are claiming House is better than GoT. House is good, sure, but it doesn't have the depth that GoT started with and continued. So many characters and plot lines.

[Varodoc]

It is interesting that people are claiming House is better than GoT. House is good, sure, but it doesn't have the depth that GoT started with and continued. So many characters and plot lines.

It's like saying that Hearthstone is better than World of Warcraft. Ridiculous.

Game of Thrones is the Main story. House of the Dragon is just a side spin-off.

Game of Thrones objectively had more depth and complexity than HOTD. HOTD is basically GOT if it was stripped of every single concurrent storyline except the War of the Five Kings, and even then GOT would sill have more depth and complexity to it.

I like HOTD, but it is silly to pretend like it will ever even come close to the heights of GOT in the 2010s.

[cubby]

It's like saying that Hearthstone is better than World of Warcraft. Ridiculous.

Game of Thrones is the Main story. House of the Dragon is just a side spin-off.

Game of Thrones objectively had more depth and complexity than HOTD. HOTD is basically GOT if it was stripped of every single concurrent storyline except the War of the Five Kings, and even then GOT would sill have more depth and complexity to it.

I like HOTD, but it is silly to pretend like it will ever even come close to the heights of GOT in the 2010s.

Agreed - and I like the WoW/HS analogy.

I still think the most open-ended spin-off possibility would be Arya going West of Westeros.

You do almost anything, even bring back people who fell off the storyline.

The Jon Snow spinoff never seemed very interesting - the WW are gone...it's just winter landscape with a brooding Snow.