Thoughts about the giant 4.2 nerf

[Wilderness]

Then why wet the pages with your delicious tears?

What tears were those again? All I've said is that I don't care at all if they nerf the hell out of normal modes for outdated content. Why anyone is concerned about it at all is beyond me since it has nothing to do with what will be current content.

[Apexis]

omfg is there NO ONE who actually READ what i write?!

A. i care because i still have yet to complete the content, and i want the games i play to actually give something that looks like a challenge.
B. no, i did NEVER say ANYTHING like "Omg, they are nerfing naxxramas! Now green-geared pugs can kill Kel'Thuzad without even knowing tactics! I spent 4 month wiping in naxx to get my ilvl213 gear!" what i did in fact say, was that the game should NOT be nerfed, because people are still having trouble with it. NEWSFLASH! IT IS A GOOD THING THAT PEOPLE HAVE A CHALLENGE! IT IS BAD WHEN THEY CAN FACEROLL IT, AND STILL GET REWARDED!

I have read every damn word you have written to this point. I still think you damn wrong! That said, I have 19 other alts to gear across several servers. No matter what this tier content is going to get to the point where I am face rolling it, because I have seen it at least once, if not 30 times. but over 19 other toons. I don't really want to spend the amount of time gearing an alt they way I have been investing in my main. I did the same thing with the other content and find it the best way to gear an alt. Your points are rather mute anyway and your ranting to community that really could careless.

If you have not cleared all the present content by the time Firelands comes out than, that’s your problem not the rest of the communities fault. The guild am in is an old guild with a lot of new players in it. Some have been around since the begin of the game and others a couple months to a couple years. There are various degrees of players out there, we as a guild like the challenges of new content as well as (I have seen a lot of this lately with all the guild achievements and such) people going back and doing old content all the way back to first tier of raids.

If you’re as HC player as you claim to be, than go do firelands when it come out and leave the rest the content to the greater portion of the community. I am sure the greater portion of the 11+ million subs out there really could care one hoot about your distaste for how game should be played in your mind.

I find people, like yourself just need an endless reason to bitch and complain about something. For better or for worse, this game is about money to both Blizzard and Activision. The more happy customers they have the better there bottom line is going to be. If the TBC model was so great, why did the go the way they did in Wrath. In some regards they tried to go back to TBC, after making Wrath way to easy to get gear and level.

Over the course of the last 6 months I have read a lot of threads and posts on many peoples distaste for the way Cata has gone so far. Some think, like yourself it should be even harder than it is presently, other which seem to be the greater majority think the game is rather unforgiving in it present state. Frankly it seems that the greater majority will prevail eventually in this game or Blizzard will find themselves with even a smaller customer base.

Before Cata even hit the shelf I new, Blizzard was going to get slammed over the way they were going to shove this content down the non-everyday players throats. The experiment has been a pretty painful one for them and going to the point where your spooning feeding little pieces of content here and there is going to get really boring for the average player. Not everyone that plays this game raids dungeons. They run dungeons normal and heroic, wpvp/pvp, then you have the ones that just farm there butts off to make money.

Frankly, I do all of this. Raiding in and by it self gets boring, hell most endgame content get boring really fast. The reason I have as many alts as I do is cause I truly hate there is really so little to do besides raiding and dailies. Another reason I am across other servers is to get a better variety of pvp.

[Tanus]

OP, you propose a solution based on a model that you did not even play, so you have no idea what you are talking about. If you haven't done the content yet, then too bad. It's been out long enough for anyone with any desire to see it to have already spent weeks doing it, whether in a guild or pugs. Just because you're lazy and progressing at a snails pace doesn't mean the game has to wait for you. You want a challenge? Then jump into the Firelands content and progress to those raids as quickly as possible. Old content is never a challenge. Get a clue.

[Deleted]

You'll be farming Firelands when 4.2 hits! Why would you care about BWD and BoT, etc.?

[Deleted]

No, the TBC model was terrible. Because of the way it worked people were forced to go back and run old content if they lost players and had to recruit new ones that needed gear/attunements. You also, since you admit you didn't play then, are overlooking or not seeing the nerfs that took place. Nerfing content when new raids were out has long been a part of Blizzards model - and its a good thing. The way it works now is best, it allows people to not take steps backwards if they lose a player, not have to run older content because of recruiting, and it doesn't punish new players who start later in an expansion who then have to work all the way through older content to see the new stuff. You say no one wants to do easy stuff over and over? Who is doing easy stuff over and over? If you cleared this content when T11 was current then you won't be running it during T12. If you didn't clear it then you can more easily see T11 and get some gear to jump into T12. What no one wants to do is have to run old content over and over for the reasons I've mentioned (gearing up new people, attunements, etc). If you played in wrath then you'll know how long and boring it was to do ICC for a whole year - but the TBC style forced a number of people to run the same content for most of the expansion. The current way of doing it is way, WAY better for the playerbase as a whole.

Why do you write 'punishing' players who start late? What you're calling 'old content' will be considered 'new content' to them. They'll enjoy it just as the people who've progressed through it already have. With the TBC model there will be guilds working every tier and eventually they'll be able to advance since Blizzard inevitably nerfs everything. Same with attunements, they were also removed and pugging the SSC/TK attunement was even quite easy.

I'm not going to dispute your crticism of the BT/Hyjal attunements though, but I still like it better than how they did WoTLK/what they are doing right now.

[Wilderness]

Why do you write 'punishing' players who start late? What you're calling 'old content' will be considered 'new content' to them. They'll enjoy it just as the people who've progressed through it already have. With the TBC model there will be guilds working every tier and eventually they'll be able to advance since Blizzard inevitably nerfs everything. Same with attunements, they were also removed and pugging the SSC/TK attunement was even quite easy.

There really aren't guilds at every tier - what you end up with is a few guilds on the top tier that end up having the better geared players from other guilds jump ship to them. And when the guilds in the middle level of progression lose a key player or two then they go backwards in progression and have to either gear up/attune a new player or an alt and try to get back to where they were. People who want to switch mains or who level up later on are indeed punished because they don't get to see all content. If someone switches mains then their whole guild needs to run them through old content enough to get geared and attuned or they have to go to another guild that is working on the "older" content. If a new player hits the level cap then the only way to see all the content is to jump ship through different guilds to get to the highest level of content and that is not easy. If someone started halfway through TBC it was very hard for them to ever get to Sunwell before Wrath hit.

With the way it works now if you hit 80 during ICC you could still go back and run through Naxx, Ulduar, and ToC to see the content. Obviously it was not hard and everyone outgeared it. But that's not the point - it was accessible and people could run through the old raids and see the content, see the fights. You couldn't do that in TBC. The fact is that no matter which system they use, someone who is not around at the beginning of an expansion is not going to see all content while its current. Its just not going to work. But the way we have it now you can run through it and see the fights.

The TBC approach and system just does not work as well from a "let everyone see all content at some point" perspective which is what Blizzard is doing now and what is best from a business perspective. The more people who can raid and see this stuff, even if its older and nerfed, the happier the general playerbase will be. That approach, along with the guild system and what they want guilds to be, just doesn't mesh with how they did it in TBC and I believe that is a good thing.

[CrunkJuice5]

Old content is never a challenge. Get a clue.

people still die to defile on lich king.im sure old content is a challenge to some people

eather way,like getting kingslayer at 85.i wont be impressed if people get titles like defender of the shattered world after firelands is out.im sure my guild will be focused on firelands anyway because were a hardcore raiding guild and thats current content in 4.2

[Sansnom]

what my point with this tread was, is that it would benefit EVERYONE if the raids from the old tier was still the only way to get raid gear, to enter the new tier raid. the old tier should not recive any nerf that didn't happen while the hardcores cleared it. then we might actually have: A game where people would become BETTER at it while playing it, and B a better playerbase.

thanks for reading my post, keep in mind that this is just constructive critizism.
plz share your openions, but remember to state WHY so it's not just destructive critizism or trolling. if your not saying why you mean what, then you are regarded as a troll. if you just came here to troll, then do it by all means. fun stuff is good stuff people [COLOR="red"]

Strongly disagree. You are basing on the assumption that every player in the game has the potential to be a very good player and capable of clearing contents. This is a false assumption. If that was the case, we could not see normal and heroic mode raids because there will be no need of it. Similarly if every one has this potential then we would be seeing more contents being cleared regularly and the number of people finishing the contents should be linear. If I recall Paragon cleared 25M LK heroic first. The next kill took some time after that. They was took the world first for this tier. Why is that? Why didn't another guild get the world first before?

The fact is people's abilities varies greatly.

Finally, I still do not understand why some people are so oppose to this. This is not ICC again. The nerf is only applied to the previous tier normal mode. Any progression raider will be one tier ahead working in Firelands when this happens. Or is being one tier ahead not enough and the no-so good players should be playing in ICC?

[Iron Dome]

Good thing though is if ur in a guild u dont need to run other guild members through this old content b/c some ppl left.
ye the nerfs r annoying, but what can u do.

[Deleted]

There really aren't guilds at every tier - what you end up with is a few guilds on the top tier that end up having the better geared players from other guilds jump ship to them. And when the guilds in the middle level of progression lose a key player or two then they go backwards in progression and have to either gear up/attune a new player or an alt and try to get back to where they were. People who want to switch mains or who level up later on are indeed punished because they don't get to see all content. If someone switches mains then their whole guild needs to run them through old content enough to get geared and attuned or they have to go to another guild that is working on the "older" content. If a new player hits the level cap then the only way to see all the content is to jump ship through different guilds to get to the highest level of content and that is not easy. If someone started halfway through TBC it was very hard for them to ever get to Sunwell before Wrath hit.

With the way it works now if you hit 80 during ICC you could still go back and run through Naxx, Ulduar, and ToC to see the content. Obviously it was not hard and everyone outgeared it. But that's not the point - it was accessible and people could run through the old raids and see the content, see the fights. You couldn't do that in TBC. The fact is that no matter which system they use, someone who is not around at the beginning of an expansion is not going to see all content while its current. Its just not going to work. But the way we have it now you can run through it and see the fights.

The TBC approach and system just does not work as well from a "let everyone see all content at some point" perspective which is what Blizzard is doing now and what is best from a business perspective. The more people who can raid and see this stuff, even if its older and nerfed, the happier the general playerbase will be. That approach, along with the guild system and what they want guilds to be, just doesn't mesh with how they did it in TBC and I believe that is a good thing.

Our opinions differ then. I had no problem re-rolling a bit more than halfway through the expansion and at that point my guild had recently disbanded so there were no help from them(as a matter of fact, I killed a few bosses in Sunwell with that alt-turned-main). There were definitely ways to gear up that didn't require you to fully clear SSC/TK, the rest was like I said earlier puggable, you did not have to guild jump to be able to do that. The only part in your text that I can agree with is about the annoyance of attuning new players, but gearing people in those lower tiers was far from a necessity.

The model Blizzard is using at the moment is in my opinion worthless. What is the fun in steamrolling through nerfed-to-the-ground content? The linear progression in TBC was what made the expansion what it is, the best one so far.

[Deleted]

Very good the casual crowd gets to see the bosses.

[Fifty Snakes]

The model Blizzard is using at the moment is in my opinion worthless. What is the fun in steamrolling through nerfed-to-the-ground content? The linear progression in TBC was what made the expansion what it is, the best one so far.

Fun fact: If you hadn't cleared the current content before the nerf, you certainly won't be steamrolling it in 4.2.

[Deleted]

Fun fact: If you hadn't cleared the current content before the nerf, you certainly won't be steamrolling it in 4.2.

Probably true but that comment is taken a bit out of context. My point is that Blizzards model of nerfing content prior to releasing new tiers is unnecessary.

[Deleted]

If they hand out itemlevel 359 epics in heroic dungeons they have to adapt 359 raid difficulty accordingly or nobody would ever visit them.

The model Blizzard is using at the moment is in my opinion worthless. What is the fun in steamrolling through nerfed-to-the-ground content? The linear progression in TBC was what made the expansion what it is, the best one so far.

you can already steamroll through 5/6, 2/2 and 4/4 anytime with your twinks on a single evening in a pug. youll be able to faceroll nef too afterwards. easy and outdated content will be even easier. i cant see anything bad about that.
besides linear progression wont work for the majority of the playerbase as nobody is willing anymore to farm outdated content. technically it would still be usefull for the casual guilds to farm t11 hms. guess how many will be willingly to do so?

[Lumineus]

AQ40 came out, and there were nerfs to BWL.

Heh. Maybe on later bosses, but it didn't matter because they kept buffing Razorgore to break all the tactics the AQ40/Naxx guilds used to get past him, making it 900% harder to make headway in the instance.

[roahn the warlock]

I was pretty bad in TBC but I didn't mind never seeing BT or sunwell, I was right happy in kara and the eye