The League of Legends thread

[Ergar]

I have to say, you people have some damn good patience with trying to let them see it.

Tbh i was kinda starting to feel like talking to a brick wall.

But yeah, Led + + pretty much summed it up.

[Deleted]

ok, so the spears need a nerf?
Let's nerf the ap scaling, cd or range then maybe?
but what becomes of Nidalee then if this happens? will she be forgotten?

Imo, they should nerf the range on the spears then, so i wil be risky for her and the tank needs to peel for her, instead of she standing off side throwing spears and if things get hairy she can disengage too easy.

[Ergar]

That's the hard part about nerfing her. Unless Riot does a good job at it, she'll probably just end up like Skarner or Kassadin. Think it was Ciderhelm who said something like shifting power away from her Q, and making bushwack an actual aoe nuke. It sounds kinda interesting, but im not sure how it would work out.

Riot did say something about making her cougarform more relevant for damage, when they talked about her rework. Im very anxious to see how she will turn out.

[Ergar]

Or maybe take some of the damage away, and put it on a charge system, like Vel'koz's W. It would increase her risk/reward atleast.

[Tradu]

I actually quite like the idea of making mid-range spears the most effective. That way she still has the option of doing super long range poke, but at the same time she has to be sort of close for maximum damage. That way she trades safety for more damage, while still not having melee range spears being able to 1shot people.
Another option(that has been mentioned MANY times) is some kind of reward for hitting them. So something like Thresh Q, where the base cooldown got increased, but it gets reduced below the old base if you actually hit with it. Another option could be ramping up the damage as she hits spears, and ramping back down as she misses(so a buff similar to Jinx' machinegun, where each hit spear stacks it up, and each miss removes a stack, as well as losing one stack each time the buff duration runs out).

[Drikkink]

That's the hard part about nerfing her. Unless Riot does a good job at it, she'll probably just end up like Skarner or Kassadin. Think it was Ciderhelm who said something like shifting power away from her Q, and making bushwack an actual aoe nuke. It sounds kinda interesting, but im not sure how it would work out.

Riot did say something about making her cougarform more relevant for damage, when they talked about her rework. Im very anxious to see how she will turn out.

Kassadin is still at least viable. Skarner isn't, but this misconception that Kassadin cannot do anything needs to die.

[Ergar]

I haven't seen any Kassadin's after the rework, so i thought they butchered him with his rework. I've never played Kassadin that much myself. Care to explain?

E: Also most youtubers i watch have been saying he got butchered.

[Drikkink]

I haven't seen any Kassadin's after the rework, so i thought they butchered him with his rework. I've never played Kassadin that much myself. Care to explain?

E: Also most youtubers i watch have been saying he got butchered.

He still has the same mobility. He has BETTER survivability against mages than before. His E doesn't hurt as much, but his W hits like a god damn truck. Build Seraphs, ROA, Lich Bane and a Deathcap and you're destroying things. He's worse off against the AD casters than he was, but he's better against the APs than he was. He's a very strong counter to burst mages (but not particularly good against AP assassins).

[Ergar]

I thought the fact that his Q no longer silences, would make him worse against AP mages?

[Deleted]

Kass is my current top 2 pick. He's:

a) stronger early game than before vs ad mids like Talon/Zed
b) still goes bonkers late game, with 5 items (Lichbane included) I'm pretty much taking down anything on a single combo

The only disadvantages I've seen so far are facing nuke mages (veigar especially, if you don't combo him down after riftwalk, boy you're in trouble) and predicting number of jumps you need for a teamfight. The moments when you want to Riftwalk for the sixth and last time but you miss 100 mana -_-

Overall, all the time when I pick him I see a major shitstorm in the chat. Thing is, people rage and cry how nerfed he was without even getting to know his new mechanics.
For me, he came out stronger after the rework.

[Jibjabb]

You can nerf the toxic aspect of Nidalee and give her something else thats more balanced to compensate. I mean look at Gragas. He wasnt "the best" mid lane in the game, he was just one of the good ones but he got changed because he could instakill people with little to no time to react to it, which obviously was unacceptable. Nidalee has a similar problem in that she can safely chuck at people from range and simply landing one causes a severe amount of damage in some cases instakilling. This paired with her very high mobility (just like Gragas) means she should be changed, not necessarily flat nerfed but changed.

Kassadin is def still viable, hes extremely slipperymore so than nid and once fed becomes such a monster thats very hard to lock down, its just harder to get him fed this time around.

[Deleted]

ok, so the spears need a nerf?
Let's nerf the ap scaling, cd or range then maybe?
but what becomes of Nidalee then if this happens? will she be forgotten?

Probably the CD or the manacost. It's the spamminess of her Q that makes her so 'toxic' imo. Something à la Kassadin's new ult could be great.

Anyway, I see her being picked litterally 4 out of 5 games when she's not banned (I always ban her, along with Pantheon and either Yasuo or Leblanc, would ban Kha if I wasn't maining him) - garbage plat 4 elo.

[Jibjabb]

I really hope they nerf the feral flare a bit. Its not just a problem on Yi but its making a lot of attack speed junglers a lot stronger than they should be, especially compared to their counterpart junglers who dont use it. I get the idea behind it, it simply gets too strong too soon, plus I am not big on adding more Nasus Q aspects to the game to begin with. I wouldnt exactly call his playstyle fun or engaging.

[Axethor]

I thought the fact that his Q no longer silences, would make him worse against AP mages?

Kass got better against AP mids like Ori, Ahri, Nid, etc, but worse against AD Mids and Assassins. He still does a ton of damage and can carry games, but he is securely locked into the counter-pick slot, unlike before when he could be picked against pretty much anything. This is why pros don't play him anymore and a few might say he is "shit" because right now, the current meta favors champions that counter new Kass.

It's like Skarner actually. If you read the stonewall article, you can see that Skarner still deals tons of damage, but he can never catch anyone since the current meta (and game in general) has a ton of champs with high mobility. His E also traded shitty ability for less shitty ability that you actually need to level, so he did lose a little power early game.

[sam86]

You do know that Kass 'shield' from Q vanish in few secs, and u can hit him after that, before his Q cd end
His Q shield is good for team fight, but lane ? nope
And even then, A 2.5sec silence that leave u with only AA and can't even flash away (unless u have tenacity) is better any day than a 'magic shield' that does nothing for Caitlyn Q
No Kassadin in general got much weaker than before
I agree that Gragas rework changed him, but I'd prefer a new champion and keep old gragas with change in ap scale
As for Nidalee, no, nerf her spears, no one will take her, if u kill her spears, she may be the worst champion in game, if someone need nerf, there are 6 others who need it more before her

[NotValidAnymore]

So... Nidalee's only spell is her spear, and if they nerf it, she has nothing?

Yeah, she totally doesn't need changes then, so that she's a champion with actual depth. Let's just keep her as she is, where her only job is to throw enemies to the base with a single hit of her "one ability".

[Axethor]

You do know that Kass 'shield' from Q vanish in few secs, and u can hit him after that, before his Q cd end
His Q shield is good for team fight, but lane ? nope
And even then, A 2.5sec silence that leave u with only AA and can't even flash away (unless u have tenacity) is better any day than a 'magic shield' that does nothing for Caitlyn Q
No Kassadin in general got much weaker than before
I agree that Gragas rework changed him, but I'd prefer a new champion and keep old gragas with change in ap scale
As for Nidalee, no, nerf her spears, no one will take her, if u kill her spears, she may be the worst champion in game, if someone need nerf, there are 6 others who need it more before her

Like I said, he's a counter-pick. He's not weaker, but he's less safe. There is a difference. Both now and then, if Kass catches you, you will die. However, you now also have a chance to catch him. If you think Kass is shit, you haven't played him since the rework.

Gragas also needed changes, as mad as you are being a Gragas player. You could not just nerf his Ratios and be okay. If that worked, Riot would have done so. Reworking kits takes a lot more work, time, and money then just tuning numbers. They don't do reworks unless it's abundantly clear something needs to change.

Nidalee will probably receive a rework to move some power around, most likely into her ult. Spears are too annoying and powerful, but you can't just nerf them because she will literally be useless. She will also lose either some mobility or power on her heal to lower the safety her Human Q gives her, because I fully expect that to stay just significantly less powerful.

[sam86]

ِActually i'm not Gragas main, just played him few times, my mains (so far) are Veigar, Nasus, and Thresh to less degree
I hate idea of "rework" because it change champion spells/abilities, as I said, in Dota, I loved old Na'ix, until he got rework, since then didn't play him unless random, You have new ideas ? cool, introduce new champs, don't change old champ, someone probably love him
Same as (if anyone is really old dota player) Kael introduce, he had insane arsenal, i had friend who memorized each combination, only to see him removed later, he was way too OP but that's another story (for those who didn't play dota, Kael had i think 27 spell, he can do anything u can think in game), heck picking kael make game lag because it is loading his spells first
Worst case I prefer is like in dota, where there is maps with legacy champs (old champs before rework, or who got removed), keep old gragas, just not for ranked game anymore, maybe not even for normal, just for custom/ai maps
While I don't miss Gragas myself, I'd like to play some champs before reworks, like Eve when she had stun etc

[NotValidAnymore]

If they never fixed old champions and always made new ones to compensate, there would be way too many champions, and buying old ones would be a waste of points.

[Charge me Doctor]

ِActually i'm not Gragas main, just played him few times, my mains (so far) are Veigar, Nasus, and Thresh to less degree
I hate idea of "rework" because it change champion spells/abilities, as I said, in Dota, I loved old Na'ix, until he got rework, since then didn't play him unless random, You have new ideas ? cool, introduce new champs, don't change old champ, someone probably love him
Same as (if anyone is really old dota player) Kael introduce, he had insane arsenal, i had friend who memorized each combination, only to see him removed later, he was way too OP but that's another story (for those who didn't play dota, Kael had i think 27 spell, he can do anything u can think in game), heck picking kael make game lag because it is loading his spells first
Worst case I prefer is like in dota, where there is maps with legacy champs (old champs before rework, or who got removed), keep old gragas, just not for ranked game anymore, maybe not even for normal, just for custom/ai maps
While I don't miss Gragas myself, I'd like to play some champs before reworks, like Eve when she had stun etc

Too much love to a character with only 1 spell on ~100 seconds CD. And arsenal magus was sick back then, 27 spells and only 6 were used, and they were freaking OPed, remember betrayal? Or levitation? Or mass invisibility? Or inferno? Some of them were removed because they gave him too much utility, others were combined (like wex based aoe damage spell and emp) and bam, now you have 10 spells. And i'm kinda glad that they removed 2 absolutely random AoE spells, inferno and meteor shower the first one because it was, basically, CM ult with more damage and with good random rolls you could obliterate everything, second one was weak version of first one, haven't seen it being used.


Gragas needed changes because he was obnoxious to play against, and required little to no skill to play. Safe farm, no mana and hp problems for whole game, damage reduction, escape, CC and huge burst
Read more red posts to get idea on why they change certain champions, they do that not because they rolled dice, but because these changes were needed.