The League of Legends thread

[Devboy]

got any screen shots for veigar?

[Charge me Doctor]

got any screen shots for veigar?

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/02...ming.html#more
i was talking about tentative gameplay changes, they look awesome.

Q being a long ranged skillshot solves my issue of being mid-ranged mage that relies on his long CD skill (E) to harass enemy, also adds some learning curve for him.

W got buffed, yay.

E is kinda obvious change, like Jainas' (HotS) circle, adds a lot of complexity to Veigar (a lot harder to land it the same way you can land it now) and range buff to compensate the change (so you won't end up not being able to catch fleeing targets as you used to)

R got reduced scaling (by 0,2), while it is a big nerf in numbers, but in reality these ults are huge overkill, so not a big deal (except when you want to melt a tank) and thanks to this damage nerf, R gets quality of life changes! less mana cost and less CD. Awesome, can't wait to test it out

[Ergar]

Love the change to his E. While it's harder to stun people now, i absolutely adore the increased range of it.

[Jibjabb]

I also like the Veigar changes makes it feel like u can actually play against him rather than feeling like if he gets in range of u, u are pretty much dead if he doesnt suck

Id like to see LB as the next mid laner hit, altho she probably needs a more drastic kit change with her tremendous burst/mobility

[Deleted]

He got the mini rework because after 20 minutes, there was 0 counterplay to him other than letting him kill someone, then jumping him, which... is not exactly counterplay :P

[Charge me Doctor]

I hate the Veigar changes. They're bad for the champion.

The E change is the worst offender. It's making Veigar an easier champion by no longer making it rewarding to aim for an instant stun. The delay is too long and it's just a stupid change. His W was used when he stunned people because they would easily dodge it anyways. Having a delay on E means only dumbasses are going to get stunned, dash champions now laugh at it compared to getting stunned when dashing through it before, and mobile champions now completely shit on Veigar.

The range buffs aren't even great. Yeah your Q has more range, it's also now a skill shot so enjoy people hiding behind the minion wave to deal with you. His Ult range is unchanged so NO Veigar is not going to be a long ranged champion when he still needs to waddle up closer to ult someone.

I'm unclear as to if the Q changes makes him get AP from any unit killed regardless of Qing it or not. If so then that's just as dumb as his E in making him more brainless to play. No longer any thought put into what you use your Q for anymore. Instead just max W and clear the wave and farm.

Who thought that Veigar needed to be complete reworked? I hate reworks on champions that didn't require one to function because they don't even get their reworks right a decent chunk of times.

"Aiming for instant stun" is not something that is really hard or risky to do, you just throw it, then W+Q(+R) to get +5 AP, it does look awesome, but it is not awesome to not be able to do anything against it, and after some time it really feels like unfair play, like playing quake 3 with someone who barely touched anything except CoD. It's not about outplaying your opponent, it's about having unfair advantage over him that he can't deal with.
With this change to E (i would also like to see width of actual-stun-area increased slightly), you have to trap your enemy in your E and pick one:
1) drop W on the center (he have a choice, eat the damage from W while being able to retaliate, or eat a stun and dodge W damage)
2) keep smacking him until he runs into a wall and gets stunned, then W to deal damage.
I think that rushing tenacity item is going to hurt Veigar more than now, because you won't get 3 points into a stun since it's not as reliable pick-off tool as it used to be, so ramming into a wall when trapped is a №1 option.

The Q works like Luxs' Q, it pierces through first target, so it's fine and adds little skillfull play on lane for Veigar (which he lacked of) and fixes his issue of not being to trade with characters with higher range. Also it allows you to stack AP faster, and be more effective in teamfights with double Q hits. Ult is going to be "all-in" tool, you risk by getting into middle range when you are sure that you are going to kill your target, or that this damage is required and you will be able to get away. Basically, closer Veigar is to you - higher chances that you are going to get killed, not vice-versa (like now, Veigar appears from nowhere and you become steaming pile of crap), but he is not useless at high range, and have more opportunities to play from under the turret.

I'm pretty sure that it works like it works now, but you will be able to get 2 stacks of AP by killing two units in a row. I can't see how making E harder to land makes him brainless to play.

Well, anyone who played as Veigar, or against him thought that he needs to be reworked. The things they mentioned in red post is not "complete rework", not even close to it. And Veigar was one of champions in dire need of rework.

[Faltemer]

I need to see how veigar plays before I can say whether or not it look good. Obviously everything but E looks better now, but that change could be big. I think he could now be a really good AOE champ since his Q seems to hit 2, plus a big AOE stun e and a big damage w are great.

I had just started noticing most supports don't go Ruby Sightstone even though i always rushed it, but now that I look closer it was dumb of me to do that. Definitely not worth it, and it is good they are looking into it. I would say maybe if you get Ruby, you get the option to put 4 wards down instead of 3. That could make it very viable.

Would love to see them update taric, always liked him. But every time they change him his kit/gimmick stays the same and he doesn't get used.

[Noxina]

Then again, in the end if you don't finish the match quick enough Veigar comes in and land 1.2k Qs on everyone.
But yeah, it is a reason you don't see many Veigars around, he is rather easy to gank imo (no escape tool, only thing he got is his stun, and if that misses - gg). Always loved to play him, curious about how this change will be to him.
And I really don't understand why people are complaining even before it is changed?

[Charge me Doctor]

Because he is losing his ability to stun people on his own, meaning his W suddenly makes no sense aside from a farming tool unless someone else CCs the guy for you. Nobody has slow enough reaction times to walk into the wall when given almost an entire second before it starts to stun.

If Veigar has no ability to stun an enemy champion in lane then he has lost any threat he once had and now pretty much everybody counter him in lane. He had a slim chance against assassins depending on his ability to stun a very mobile target, and against sustained damage mages he could stun them hit them and run. Sitting in the middle of the cage does nothing against mages who have ranged spells to hit you.

Also their reasoning for the E is horrible. They're trying to reward Veigar players for doing the easy thing and just throw the cage around them rather than aiming. With these current changes Veigar would just become a very simple to play, but bad champion.

No, he doesn't , he just need to be better to land his stun, and utilize his E more as zoning tool that just a ~800k range stun, and you still can use W to zone enemy away from minions or drop in in the point where enemy has to stop to last hit effectively denying his farm or harassing his ass. And it doesnt matter, you drop a cage on him, see of he is caught in it or stunned, and use your W accordingly.

Where do you get this from? His strength always was bursting people down, but you still had to harass with your mid range Q, not it's a long range skillshot, which makes it easier to harass (in sense on not eating in the face burst from enemy as soon as you move towards them) and farm. I can't think that anyone "countered" me in lane as Veigar except enemy junglers, since i can always just hug tower and farm here and return with 40% CDR and 300 AP at level 11 to melt faces in teamfights. Landing his stun on enemy is not hard, even if it's mobile assassin (range of LB distortion is almost the same as diamitier of your stun, just drop it on the spot where she used it from and she'll get stunned close to you), you either have to know range of enemy gap closers, or wait for them to use it first. Yeah, he could, and that was the problem, unavoidable stun that follows up with crapton of damage, just like AP Sion back then. Why the hell you sit in your own cage? You should trap enemy in a cage and throw W on him, he will end up with choice of retaliating and eating damage or getting stunned and still eating some damage.

You do understand that now landing E stun is harder than before? They are trying to reward good Veigar players, while bad players can quit him and play something easier. He objectively becomes harder to play, he had three skillshots one of them being very weird shaped delayed stun



I already explained to you how you use your W without stunning your enemy, you trap him in W and force him to either eat a stun or W, you don't need to E>W instantly. As well as using W when someone else CCs enemy, so it's, kinda, fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Surprised people here actually think the Veigar changes are good considering everywhere else people are rightfully saying they've destroyed Veigar with the E change alone.

Ah the old argument "Oh it's so easy to land his stun and there is no counterplay". Yes it's so simple to flash to a target and stun them perfectly just so you can catch them out. If you're able to walk up and stun someone you can burst past laning phase then you're playing with bad players and no champion should be balanced around that(RIP Garen). Veigar is a squishy mage that needs to commit to killing a target and is vulnerable when attempting to burst them. If you're wandering around alone and don't bother to buy a BV then tough luck and learn to play better against assassins in general. I guess Annie should be removed from the game because her flash Tibbers has no counterplay with that logic.

The argument that anyone that can 100 to 0 someone in burst doesn't have counterplay is never going to hold weight Otherwise assassins would not exist in the game because by that logic they'll just win. The only champions that needed to have counterplay put in them are champions like Zed, Kassadin, and Leblanc who would kill a target and then instantly teleport to safety. Veigar doesn't teleport to safety and has many downside to him.

Haven't seen anyone complaining about changes except you.

No, i play vs diamond/plat players and it's as easy to land a stun on them as on gold/silver players, the only issue is getting baited into a gank, that's the only way to lose your lane. Or play vs unfavorable enemy, like Swain, Ahri or other mid range mages who tend to outdamage and outsustain you in early game winning all the trades and laughing at your harass.

Yes, he is squishy mage, he still is, yes, you are even more vulnerable when you attempt to 100>0 target, since you have reduced damage on your ult and you can miss both your Q and W. So, in your opinion whole enemy team should get BV just because i pick Veigar? Since when BV became "must have item" from "situational item"? Why, flash>Tibbers is initiation tool, she rarely burst people 100>0 if not fed as fuck.

No, assassins have to pick their targets correctly (wounded, weak, out of position), if they are not wounded, they have to wound the first, which was quite hard as Veigar due to his range and mana costs, now it's easier to harass people with Q from safety and follow up with killing blow, that's how assassins work, they shouldn't just roll on their keyboard and 100>0 anyone except when they are extremely fed. Yeah, he just stuns whole team pops one of them and walks away laughing

[Volibear]

Playing nemesis draft for shits and giggles, ADC Nami is pretty strong

[Noxina]

Playing nemesis draft for shits and giggles, ADC Nami is pretty strong

I got Lucian in Nemesis, was so fun as the enemy team was all melee x) Think I had 16/3/xx in score, and only had troubles against their Rammus and Alistar that built full amor :P

The game mode is fun, only because of all the weird set ups you get to try x) #bringbackurf

[Charge me Doctor]

New post rework Taric spash art leaked

[Firebert]

I got Lucian in Nemesis, was so fun as the enemy team was all melee x) Think I had 16/3/xx in score, and only had troubles against their Rammus and Alistar that built full amor :P

The game mode is fun, only because of all the weird set ups you get to try x) #bringbackurf

I just had to Jungle Braum, didn't realise his passive had magic damage on hit after a stun.

Good times

[BloodyAngel12]

Piglet got benched.

[Deleted]

Why did I ever stop playing Veigar support? It's just so hilarious.

[Charge me Doctor]

Cuz u cant farm Q!!1 and veigur is uzlez and steals kilz!

He is very squishy to be honest, and his only threat pre level 6 is his stun, which has huge CD. Also unforgiving mana costs. At some point (level 2-3, and after getting BF sword) your opponent can just ignore you and go for ADC, or burst you away if you were not careful enough (see: didn't hid behind your ADC). It works in some match ups (mainly vs Janna and Sona), but in most games you won't be useful lane support.

[Deleted]

Cuz u cant farm Q!!1 and veigur is uzlez and steals kilz!

He is very squishy to be honest, and his only threat pre level 6 is his stun, which has huge CD. Also unforgiving mana costs. At some point (level 2-3, and after getting BF sword) your opponent can just ignore you and go for ADC, or burst you away if you were not careful enough (see: didn't hid behind your ADC). It works in some match ups (mainly vs Janna and Sona), but in most games you won't be useful lane support.

Seems to be going juuuuuuust fine. Also a 16 CD (before CDR) CD on a 2.5 second MASSIVE instant AoE STUN isn't that bad, not bad at all. In lane hitting a E, W and Q plus some hits from ADC gets over half the opponents ADC's health. Only problem being mana indeed. Since you level Stun first, ganks become very easy, especially combined with exhaust and ulti. Because of ult you pretty much always have respectable damage to their AP carry, even without any AP. Also because of ult and stun it becomes quite easy to roam midlane (for easy AP carry kills).

I started playing it again yesterday, didn't lose a single match yet. Hell didn't even come close to losing.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/23481813#matches

[Charge me Doctor]

2,5? it's 1,5 at rank one, E>W>Q combo eats half of your mana doing ~200 damage at level 3. Without maxing Q and W(or investing items in AP) it deals crappy damage (because ~50 damage scaling). I do not think that maxing out E first is a good idea, getting 3 points in it - yeah, to be sure that your W hits even if enemy gets tenacity, but then you have crappy 100 damage Q and W at level 5 instead of doubling damage output of your Q or W.
Ganking on Veigar is easy, yeah, that's probably why we see recent PBE changes, his power is being tranfered from E>W>Q combo to, well, Q and W.

Tho, the game is never ends on lane phase, so Veigar support is perfectly viable in some matchups, but i still stand of Leona/Braum/Thresh outmatching Veigar by far

[Deleted]

So why does literally every pro playing support Veigar max E? I mean sure it's 1.5 at rank 1, which is the entire point of leveling it. You're not playing 2 shot AP veigar. And your calculations seem to miss AA's and your ADC who has 1.5 seconds of free harass while at it. (At your rank 1 t hat is). No one in lane buys tenacity boots either. Botlane that is.

[Anium]

Piglet got benched.

Can't say I'm surprised