The League of Legends thread

[Synaptic]

It did help, but it also forces you to now play as a team before the game has started. It encourages you to think smart on your champions, and be able to be versatile in lanes, by being able to play the different "sub roles". Duellists, passive farmers, Harassers. I can see your point, I just think it's going to make people more versatile in what they can do, or should be able to do.

It should also force communication between your team in champion select, and not the usual "instant lock in of what you want" mentality that's becoming more prevalent

I agree that it will be interesting to open up the same kind of niche-balance in lane that we have in jungle, with farmers, duelists and harassers having advantages over each other in some way. While I'm sure Riot will balance it if it does turn out to be the case, I just hope it doesn't become too hard of a counter in the situations that a counter is created--I don't want the lane to devolve into so much aggression that the mechanics of last hitting take second seat to picking fights in lane at all times.

[Deleted]

I agree that it will be interesting to open up the same kind of niche-balance in lane that we have in jungle, with farmers, duelists and harassers having advantages over each other in some way. While I'm sure Riot will balance it if it does turn out to be the case, I just hope it doesn't become too hard of a counter in the situations that a counter is created--I don't want the lane to devolve into so much aggression that the mechanics of last hitting take second seat to picking fights in lane at all times.

I think that will distinguish the good players from the very good, being able to keep up a steady harass, while last hitting. Not too different from now, but you're going to be punished less for extending surrounded by creeps. I can see why they did it, it will make the lanes more aggressive, because, especially at early levels, having just a wave and a half, and forcing a fight (as early as level 2) could put you ahead a long way.

I guess we'll soon see though. I hope it doesn't become as you said that it's more advantageous to go "Balls out the biscuit tin" aggressive at all times, but to be able to keep a healthy balance of CS, and the right picked fights

[sam86]

Sorry but what you say is simply : don't play Nasus
He is weak early game, he is bad duelist at early lvls (before Q farm) and weak harraser too (use E and you can't farm Q), Nasus doesn't fit at all in this new idea, he can't harras or duel, he must get creep protection to hold top until he can have descent farm, and in case of insane harraser he will ask jungler help
The new system : delete him, anyone will kick him out of lane very easily
Not to mention lets make it worse and enemy team have no jungler, Nasus will make his team lose
Alistar will also shine a lot as support bot, he can take dmg already, and minions will be ignored so he will be auto-win bot vs most other squishy supports since they can't protect their AD carry like him

[Deleted]

I don't always cry for humanity,

but when I do, it's after I solo-queued a game of League of Legends.

[Synaptic]

Sorry but what you say is simply : don't play Nasus
He is weak early game, he is bad duelist at early lvls (before Q farm) and weak harraser too (use E and you can't farm Q), Nasus doesn't fit at all in this new idea, he can't harras or duel, he must get creep protection to hold top until he can have descent farm, and in case of insane harraser he will ask jungler help
The new system : delete him, anyone will kick him out of lane very easily
Not to mention lets make it worse and enemy team have no jungler, Nasus will make his team lose
Alistar will also shine a lot as support bot, he can take dmg already, and minions will be ignored so he will be auto-win bot vs most other squishy supports since they can't protect their AD carry like him

Not true at all; there are top lanes that Nasus will be able to win, but picking Nasus first, even right now, is never a good idea because of the nature of his laning phase.

[Deleted]

and in case of insane harraser he will ask jungler help

As he does already, doh.

Not to mention lets make it worse and enemy team have no jungler, Nasus will make his team lose

As he does already. If Nasus cannot farm he is useless, its been like that for ever, and will be like that as long as he needs to farm his Q

[Deleted]

Sorry but what you say is simply : don't play Nasus
He is weak early game, he is bad duelist at early lvls (before Q farm) and weak harraser too (use E and you can't farm Q), Nasus doesn't fit at all in this new idea, he can't harras or duel, he must get creep protection to hold top until he can have descent farm, and in case of insane harraser he will ask jungler help
The new system : delete him, anyone will kick him out of lane very easily
Not to mention lets make it worse and enemy team have no jungler, Nasus will make his team lose
Alistar will also shine a lot as support bot, he can take dmg already, and minions will be ignored so he will be auto-win bot vs most other squishy supports since they can't protect their AD carry like him

No Nasus? Yes, thank you. Most overpowered shit I've come across.

[Deleted]

Sorry but what you say is simply : don't play Nasus
He is weak early game, he is bad duelist at early lvls (before Q farm) and weak harraser too (use E and you can't farm Q), Nasus doesn't fit at all in this new idea, he can't harras or duel, he must get creep protection to hold top until he can have descent farm, and in case of insane harraser he will ask jungler help
The new system : delete him, anyone will kick him out of lane very easily
Not to mention lets make it worse and enemy team have no jungler, Nasus will make his team lose
Alistar will also shine a lot as support bot, he can take dmg already, and minions will be ignored so he will be auto-win bot vs most other squishy supports since they can't protect their AD carry like him

Nasus already isn't really that great a pick imo, he is easily counterpicked, then with a good counter, just deny his farm, grats, your game is now 4v5.
Also, I don't think this will have that much of an effect on bot, and Alistar is pretty much a top support already.

[Lysah]

So if you pick a champ with pretty low dueling ability(especially early game), and I take a champ that is very good at early game dueling, I should be able to just ignore the minions and ignore the fact that I should be last hitting, and just repeatedly kill you over and over?

Yes. Except, I will still smash people who outpick me in a lot of cases if the minions don't interfere. But if they can play well enough to beat me 1v1 they deserve to, regardless of picks. Some lanes you just 'gonna lose, like when you're slardar versus pugna necro top.

[Deleted]

I've been playing nidalee for quite some time now, and i have to ask..
Do you guys consider rageblade to be a core pickup?
I'm starting to doubt it myself =p

And regarding the minion damage, i'll have to agree with Lysah, they do quite a bit of dmg in the early levels..

[Starsurge]

I don't always cry for humanity,

but when I do, it's after I solo-queued a game of League of Legends.

I know how you feel dude, I really hate humanity after solo queue...

[Deleted]

No Nasus? Yes, thank you. Most overpowered shit I've come across.

To be honest, Nasus is easily one of the most balanced champions in the game.

Yes. Except, I will still smash people who outpick me in a lot of cases if the minions don't interfere. But if they can play well enough to beat me 1v1 they deserve to, regardless of picks. Some lanes you just 'gonna lose, like when you're slardar versus pugna necro top.

Thing is, people who can bait you into tanking minions ARE playing well enough to beat you and that's most likely their strategy. If you want the game to be 100% straight-up dueling maybe you should try making some custom games?
(My DotA knowledge stretches as far as 'Pugna is a skeleton' so yeah.)

[Deleted]

Do you guys consider rageblade to be a core pickup?
I'm starting to doubt it myself =p

Erm... no.
Its horrible unless you want to PUSH PUSH PUSH.
After the changes to his Nyanform she has turned more into a AP carry with good support skills mid-late game.

Or you can always play her as an AD bruiser but that has nothing to do with Guinsoos

[Synaptic]

Yes. Except, I will still smash people who outpick me in a lot of cases if the minions don't interfere. But if they can play well enough to beat me 1v1 they deserve to, regardless of picks. Some lanes you just 'gonna lose, like when you're slardar versus pugna necro top.

If you think laning should be all about dueling your lane opponent, then maybe Street Fighter would be a better game for you, honestly; mechanics are just as important a part of the game, and as Styles mentioned before, you should really be able to balance last hitting with harass, and then choose fights at opportune fights, not go ballsdeep whenever you choose just because you are the better dueling champ.

[Lysah]

Thing is, people who can bait you into tanking minions ARE playing well enough to beat you and that's most likely their strategy.

No, they aren't. They're getting into a fight they can't win, going "oh shit!" when they're at 10% health, running away to their tower, and watching you die to minions chasing as they go "oh thank fucking Christ for overpowered minion damage."

I said it like a dozen posts ago I'll say it again, not a single person "calculates" that, despite what they say in all chat.

[Synaptic]

They're getting into a fight they can't win.

But they did win.

I said it like a dozen posts ago I'll say it again, not a single person "calculates" that, despite what they say in all chat.

Whether you want to believe it or not, people do take it into consideration.

[Lysah]

But they did win.

Whether you want to believe it or not, people do take it into consideration.

Their ability to make mistakes that actually end up being victories is why minions are being nerfed. Again, if I was wrong, they wouldn't be changing the game. You seem to mistake me for a low ELO player. One of the largest problems I've been trying to highlight is the ability for ranged champions to beat melee champions regardless of what the picks actually are or the skill level of the players, simply because the melee will be punished severely for trying to fight back on the minion wave. There are, of course, exceptions, before you jump down my throat with a n(1) argument, but this is a pretty general rule.

[saberon]

Whether you want to believe it or not, people do take it into consideration.

And for every person that takes it into consideration, 20 people didn't. And a game balanced around people winning by pure luck and/or chance is terrible. The nerf, assuming it is not too hard , is warranted, and will serve to balance out the disparity between people who factor the creeps in and those who don't.

[Synaptic]

And for every person that takes it into consideration, 20 people didn't. And a game balanced around people winning by pure luck and/or chance is terrible. The nerf, assuming it is not too hard , is warranted, and will serve to balance out the disparity between people who factor the creeps in and those who don't.

But there is no luck or chance. You knew those minions would hit you. They didn't "luckily decide to hit you". Just because YOU make a mistake and extend into that minion damage doesn't mean they got lucky.

This isn't about the damage they deal being overpowered, and "well riot is changing it so they agree" is a really poor defense, because for all we know they are just reducing the damage by 1. The fact is, you should know the damage that the minions deal, and whether they knowingly baited you or not, you took the bait. That isn't them being lucky, that is you making the wrong decision.

Once again, whether they intentionally bait you or not with the minion wave, the fact that you dive into it after them isn't them losing the fight or getting lucky, it is you failing to take the minions into consideration and being punished for it. There is nothing random about it. There is no chance involved in it: the minions will switch to you 100% of the time in that situation. A much safer play would be to continue to last hit and use your health advantage to continue to trade, then force them out of lane or go for a kill when the minion advantage isn't favoring them so much.

[Lysah]

The damage they do isn't luck. The luck is the part where they made a horrible mistake and won because of it.

Realize what you're arguing for is a game in which this Nidalee can royally screw up her lane with bad duels left and right, run away with a sliver of health, and still end up killing a full health Renekton if he chases her. This means she has basically zero risk in lane phase because no matter what she does overpowered minions will be there to save her. They're pushing toward a game where individual skill actually means anything, which is why the heal nerfs happened, which is why they're trying to shake up masteries and spells, which is why they're nerfing minions. This won't likely be the end of it, either, just another step in the right direction.