The League of Legends thread

[Rampant Rabbit]

Then you really do have to elaborate your question.

I am legitimately confused as to how people can still have trouble lasthitting at level 6-7+
Not just "Ha, those people are just noobs." but actual, legitimate confusion as to how anyone could not lasthit well at that stage. Assuming they're not too lowlevel to have Spellsword in the first place.

I'm not talking about lvl 6-7+ in this case. You already pointed it out that your base AD will greatly increase your last hitting capability.

I was referring to Spellsword being a last hitting assistant at lower levels, just like other masteries, which are more AD focussed rather than AP, making them less desirable to pick if you look at them in the big picture (early > late game). It could allow you to ignore the Butcher, and Brute Force masteries.

Assuming you've got a decent AP rune build, you'll start with 10-25 AP from your runes, plus 7 raw AP from your masteries, and not to forget the 5% AP increase.

You'll gain 1-2 damage at the start. Which is about the same as the spending 1 mastery point Butcher or Brute Force. This only gets higher with the amount of AP you've got. I'd say it's a fair pick compared the other options you have.

Except I said it's useless if you're going to go hybrid. If you have 500 AP you are not a hybrid.

Except, hybrid Teemo also has a fair amount of AP in his build?

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 07:44 PM ----------

They don't.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2861427

Well that's a bummer

[Deleted]

*shrug* Replace it with a Rageblade/Gunblade or Deathcap. Whatever you want. Nashor's Tooth already brings more value than a point in Deadliness *which is on the same tier*. Hard to deny a combination of those items being used by Hybrid.

At 60 AP it breaks even. One single AP item (Abyssal, whatever) will already make Spellsword more worthwhile than Deadliness, every other piece of AP (Baron buff, Sheen, Elixer even) will make it that much more potent.

You do not need to like it, but mathematically it is a very strong choice for a mere one-pointer if you build any AP at all​.

Yes, I know it breaks even at 60 AP, the point is that Deadliness is better earlygame and items are pretty expensive, especially after the gold farm nerf. I'd rather take 3 AD so I can slap people around a bit early than have 3-8 more damage lategame on a hybrid.

I'm not talking about lvl 6-7+ in this case. You already pointed it out that your base AD will greatly increase your last hitting capability.

I was referring to Spellsword being a last hitting assistant, just like other masteries, which are more AD focussed rather than AP, making them less desirable to pick if you look at them in the big picture (early > late game). It could allow you to ignore the Butcher, and Brute Force masteries.

Assuming you've got a decent AP rune build, you'll start with 10-25 AP from your runes, plus 7 raw AP from your masteries, and not to forget the 5% AP increase.

You'll gain 1-2 damage at the start. Which is about the same as the spending 1 mastery point Butcher or Brute Force. This only gets higher with the amount of AP you've got. I'd say it's a fair pick compared the other options you have.

I don't see why a hybrid would get more AP than quints , which would put it at 1.1 damage early on, I'd still call it meh. I can't imagine 1 damage being a significant difference.

Except, hybrid Teemo also has a fair amount of AP in his build?

I'm pretty sure I already presented the numbers I used for this calculation. By now it's just agree or disagree.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I don't see why a hybrid would get more AP than quints , which would put it at 1.1 damage early on, I'd still call it meh.

You do realize that this particular point in the discussion isn't about hybrids, but APC's in general, right?

I'm pretty sure I already presented the numbers I used for this calculation. By now it's just agree or disagree.

This is my bad. I forgot to ask what the amount of AP that the hybrid Teemo had in your calculations.

[Duilliath]

Yes, I know it breaks even at 60 AP, the point is that Deadliness is better earlygame and items are pretty expensive, especially after the gold farm nerf. I'd rather take 3 AD so I can slap people around a bit early than have 3-8 more damage lategame on a hybrid.

By contrast, do you also not take Magic Pen% or Armour Pen% masteries or Lifesteal masteries? Those are similarly useless early on.

Not all masteries are for early game. I'll never argue that Spellsword is a must-have early game. I do however feel it adds more scaling to on-hit/hybrid builds, which is something that was horribly lacking. This one way of solving it without them losing out too much on it.

Furthermore, I would hesitate to call Deadliness more useful early game. It is 3 AD *at level 18* for one point. Even at level one, with naught but AP quints, Spellsword will provide more benefit for smacking people around.

//edit: Sidenote, I mixed up Deadliness and Brute Force position in the tree. BF gives 1.5 AD, non-scaling. Clearly 1.1 damage *scaling* will outweigh that pretty easily and early on.

[Isrozzis]

With Xerath, new penetration (We assume that we have 80%Pen and 53Pen):
(200MR - 80%) - 53 = 13 MR
(100MR - 80%) - 53 = -33 MR (so Ad Carry is fu**d in endgame)

heh, AP/AS Teemo is gonna be ADCarry killer and nemesis.

afaik you can't get to negative MR with flat penetration. With black cleaver you used to be able to since it shredded the amount they had. According to LoL wiki, flat penetration can never take someone below zero. So I'm not really sure about the black cleaver thing, but it doesn't matter now anyways since it applies %s in it's current state.

So if they only had 100 MR, you would take them to zero and not negative.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 12:54 PM ----------

Well that's a bummer

The way they work is that the stacks reset if you hit a new target. If you hit three targets at the same time, they would never stack. If you do build hurricane on her though, silver bolts still applies to the target that you are shooting. Hurricane has no interaction with it.

[Rampant Rabbit]

The way they work is that the stacks reset if you hit a new target. If you hit three targets at the same time, they would never stack. If you do build hurricane on her though, silver bolts still applies to the target that you are shooting. Hurricane has no interaction with it.

Yeah, I just read that. Makes sense to make it work like this. It would be ridiculously OP otherwise.

[Deleted]

You do realize that this particular point in the discussion isn't about hybrids, but APC's in general, right?

Alright, let's make it 2 damage.
If you can't lasthit with 65 damage, you're probably not gonna lasthit with 67.

This is my bad. I forgot to ask what the amount of AP that the hybrid Teemo had in your calculations.

About 200, this is with AP quints, Gunblade, Triforce, whatever AP masteries there are and an additional item of your choice.

By contrast, do you also not take Magic Pen% or Armour Pen% masteries or Lifesteal masteries? Those are similarly useless early on.

Those are far stronger lategame and they don't have anything otherwise interesting in their tiers. I wouldn't really take Lifesteal masteries because lolutility.

Not all masteries are for early game. I'll never argue that Spellsword is a must-have early game. I do however feel it adds more scaling to on-hit/hybrid builds, which is something that was horribly lacking. This one way of solving it without them losing out too much on it.

On-hit builds are still fairly lacking if you ask me. It basically assumes that you have to be a mage to have a useful on-hit build and that's it, what about the people who liked going Wit's Ionic Malady Kassadin man.

Furthermore, I would hesitate to call Deadliness more useful early game. It is 3 AD *at level 18* for one point. Even at level one, with naught but AP quints, Spellsword will provide more benefit for smacking people around.

Stop using weird masteries that aren't even relevant. ._.
I meant Brute Force.

[Boomcats]

Things you can carry with since the new patch:
AD sion (the 100% AS 100% crit item with his ult)
Wukong if you stack ArP (black Cleaver and LW and such)
Master Yi
Kayle with Guinsoo's

Anyone else find anything silly broken so far? The most broken thing is AD sion right now, you can easily 1v3 most toons.

[Deleted]

Anyone else find anything silly broken so far? The most broken thing is AD sion right now, you can easily 1v3 most toons.

Didn't people say Teemo with Hurricane and that Liandry's Torment item were OP on PBE? Or did they fix that?

[Duilliath]

Teemo is stupidly overpowered with some of those new items. They should just delete the little blighter. Mind you, I'd say the same if he were extremely underpowered. Or just fine.

[Isrozzis]

ok. Irelia.

Broken now. I heard you wanted an item that had AS, AD, MS and tenacity on it. Ya lets give that to her. It's pretty scary now.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Alright, let's make it 2 damage.
If you can't lasthit with 65 damage, you're probably not gonna lasthit with 67.

I'll simply refer to a previous post as a last attempt to help you see the point I was making all this time.

It's not supposed to make a big impact on anything. Spellsword can be compared to the Butcher mastery. A mastery which some AP's would prefer to pick over the flat AP they could take. Some would even choose to run with AD masteries. (Brute Force)

This talent allows you to ignore these AD focussed masteries, and actually spend points in the AP focussed masteries.

About 200, this is with AP quints, Gunblade, Triforce, whatever AP masteries there are and an additional item of your choice.

I can agree that Spellsword would be a rather ineffective pick with that item build. Your example is clearly a more AP/AD based hybrid build.

When I think of hybrid Teemo, I think of the popular AP/AS hyrbid Teemo, especially with the upcoming item changes.

Let's say we're using an updated item build:

Your core would be Malady, Nashor's Tooth, and a Deathcap. These items alone already give you 230 AP + 35% AP = 310.5 AP. Spellsword and Malady combined will deal 15% of that amount each hit. Spellsword alone would already be dealing 15.5 damage. With Malady it would do a total of 61.6 additional damage per hit if you also add the 15 bonus damage it does.

Runaan's Hurricane would also be in this build, so your attack speed will be through the roof.

I'm guessing, however, that this will become the best way to build Teemo, so comparisons will become rather pointless unless this build becomes subject to nerfs.

-
My main point is that Spellsword really isn't a mastery that should be looked down on.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 08:49 PM ----------

ok. Irelia.

Broken now. I heard you wanted an item that had AS, AD, MS and tenacity on it. Ya lets give that to her. It's pretty scary now.

Zephyr is an extremely scary item. Especially considering that the amount of gold you spend for it isn't all that much..

[Gallahadd]

might just be me being stupid... but when do all the changed go live on EUW? I'd planned to spend today rebuild pages etc and trying out the new items, but none of them are live :'(

[Duilliath]

Guess they wanted to just break NA only and then bring it to the other servers later on.

[Vvhooya]

im playing on a mac so it takes more time to get the patch fixed :/

[Fencers]

A few things on my mind:

1. New UI is wonderful.
2. Zed has the most satisfying sound design of any champion sans maybe, Jax.
3. New items. So confusing. D:
4. What the fuck is with all the AP bullshit added to the game??
5. New jungle kinda blows.

[Deleted]

I'll simply refer to a previous post as a last attempt to help you see the point I was making all this time.

Still don't think it would make a difference.

My main point is that Spellsword really isn't a mastery that should be looked down on.

All I ever said was that it's pointless for hybrids or on-hit builds like the Kass one I listed above.

[Fencers]

Feel like creeps do more damage than before. Twice now I have gone in for a gang and lost a significant amount of HP from creeps. Similar situations in the past I just whatever creeps and gank with nary a scratch.

It's likely just getting used to everything but minions hurt! D:

[Kurdiern]

Oh joy. New patch and it's week before finals. Then after finals I'm heading to Japan for a week.

Looks like I get to miss the "I have no idea what I'm doing" phase of a new patch. A massive one also. Though I seriously doubt I'll be missing anything aside from Teemo's and Kog'maws every game with Hurricane.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Still don't think it would make a difference.

Early game, both masteries would be on par, so no, there wouldn't be much of a difference. However, there's late game. Going for Butcher/Brute Force would cause those points to seem wasted once you hit mid game whereas Spellsword scales into late game for APC's.

All I ever said was that it's pointless for hybrids or on-hit builds like the Kass one I listed above.

I see. Forget what I said then.