4.2 dk pvp

[Ieft]

spoiler: unholy will be better as dk mage priest

Time will tell but I doubt it.

Shadowcleave will reign supreme though.

[Stanton Biston]

Ehh, wouldn't say im a random considering i have 1000+ posts on aj

spoiler: unholy will be better as dk mage priest

Doing something wrong for a long enough period of time doesn't suddenly make it right.

[Store1989]

Ehh, wouldn't say im a random considering i have 1000+ posts on aj

Oh gawd, Lopez has made it to mmo-champ !

[Frosties]

as someone who doesnt play a dk im inclined to trust the person who comes out and states hard evidence and backs up his 'theories' with evidence from talent trees etc. compared to you. who goes 'lolol'. seriously that is plain stupid.

Ya that same person that says cause DC heals his ghoul makes that a Defensive CD? ya ok champ, rofl...

[xBreak]

Ya that same person that says cause DC heals his ghoul makes that a Defensive CD? ya ok champ, rofl...

Are you just trying to troll?

That's a legitimate question.

Because I have yet to meet a DK who does not know if you Lichborne you are able to heal yourself with Death Coil. If you aren't trying to troll then I feel bad for you; I also wish that age-filters would work better.

[Frosties]

Are you just trying to troll?

That's a legitimate question.

Because I have yet to meet a DK who does not know if you Lichborne you are able to heal yourself and if you aren't, then I feel bad for you. I also wish that age-filters would work better.

Age filters? lol really, i expect some sort of retort but alas its just miss miss miss...

[xBreak]

Age filters? lol really, i expect some sort of retort but alas its just miss miss miss...

In other words you're just trying to troll.

Alright, nice to know. Hope you get banned soon for being such a fail.

[Deleted]

In dk / mage / priest

You need to cheer up bro.

Apparently I didn't make myself clear enough. There. Is. No. Season. Going. On. You. Can't. Do. Arena.

How can you possibly be at 2600 as DK/mage/priest after 4.2? You can not.

Ehh, wouldn't say im a random considering i have 1000+ posts on aj

spoiler: unholy will be better as dk mage priest

So what? Lopez is at monoglad DK hero and he has like eleven thousand. Still a random. Just pipe down.

[Malic]

How can you possibly be at 2600 as DK/mage/priest after 4.2? You can not.

Maybe its not the class? Maybe its you. L2P and wait till s10 starts b4 QQing...

[Ieft]

Apparently I didn't make myself clear enough. There. Is. No. Season. Going. On. You. Can't. Do. Arena.

How can you possibly be at 2600 as DK/mage/priest after 4.2? You can not.

Reading comprehension fail.

[Deleted]

Unholy, sigh...can someone tell me how to fix my ghoul. It doesnt gnaw due to auto claw, if i bind claw to my abilities it still wont gnaw...help =.=

[Deleted]

Maybe its not the class? Maybe its you. L2P and wait till s10 starts b4 QQing...

What are you even on about? I don't even play that mongoloid-infested class. Again, I'm going to break it down like I would if I was explaining this to a 5 year-old.

The guy on the previous page implied that he was going to play frost in DK/mage/priest because it will be better than unholy even though he has clearly not tried it out at a competitive level seeing as the only arena you can do right now is TR. If you think that, in theory, frost will be better for said comp then sure, go ahead, but don't come boasting about how you're 2600 rated when you haven't even tested the spec against proper players to see how good or how shit it is. Sure, it'll be 2600 viable but he'd need to actually be good for that. All I'm saying is I doubt he has the skills one would need to push frost to that kind of ratings post-patch. It's like saying frost/rogue/priest, the only viable comp for a frost page prior to 4.1 and all throughout WotLK was easily pushable to 2600. Which is wasn't.

TLDR; You're a nobody and you didn't even understand what I said, you need to sit down.

[Mundayz]

Because I have yet to meet a DK who does not know if you Lichborne you are able to heal yourself with Death Coil. If you aren't trying to troll then I feel bad for you; I also wish that age-filters would work better.

This gave me the lulz.

[Dyrtnap]

There is so much skewed info in here. I've played DK at 2500 and got that rating playing a non meleecleave. I'm not a pro but I'm not some 1800 scrub thinking they have a grasp on something they don't either. This is long but read it and you will see some points of view that aren't always brought up with this argument.

Disclaimer: We have some small amounts of info from Wargames so things ARE NOT CLEAR. For another week or 2 we won't have much beyond small level testing.

Neither spec is going to do well against meleecleave. Period. End of story.

DK's don't have much trouble vs casters so imo I take less of that factor into account here. Why? Because our problem is against a meleetrain.

Both spec's will have a niche role so don't count out either too quickly.

Damage:

UH has HUGE ramp up times. High overall damage but only truly dangerous damage with Enraged pet (that is going to be much less useful now that pallies are back + mages) UF and Garg up(i.e. a broken pet that attacks wtf ever it feels like unless you spam a 15 line macro) and trinks/FC up. UH is a VERY strong spec in the damage dept. Oh wait I forgot that 200% crit heals really effects a spec that really relies on slow damage with little to no burst and NS. I've seen crit heals near 100k that's a huge stack of NS just gone when a healer comes out of a CC oops natures swiftness GHW for 80k nvm all those runes GONE.

Frost DW will be the ONLY viable frost spec right now barring some change to HC. Primuz game me the idea so I tested it out with frost so some of what I'm sharing here isn't my own idea. His idea was to use HB's and FS as the primary damage while using RI and CG instead of FC. The theory being that the 30% to our major damage sources can create very strong burst. It has probably the most burst potential of any spec in the game. KM is proccing at such outrageous rates that it's very scary. In a few wargames I've had over 50% crit ratio on my FS's imagine s10 T2 FS with a near 50% crit rate. I can see both the HC and NS specs working well but for sure the HC/FS with NS on UH runes is amazing burst.

That burst potential has a good chance of making certain meleecleave very strong for Frost. I can see TSG, Ebola, DK/Ret/RSham and possibly Rog/DK/healer being in these categories. I think Hpal and Rsham are the only options because both have huge burst heals and SL totem and BoP/Freedom can be the things that give frost(and DKs in general) the extra oomph it needs survival wise.

Survivability:

A: Pure reduction:

Frost brings 4-6% damage reduction without sacrificing AP like UH would have to. Anyone saying that Desc is the ONLY way to go is ignorant. With the 4.1 playstyle it was the "better" option because of how dumb Desc is. Losing Dark Succor make a 1m possibly 7sec blanket much more attractive. Frost can still keep on target with using HB and CoI alone Desc was just icing on the aids cake that is a DK's slows.

100% AMS and AMZ are huge very huge. The abilty to get RP when being attacked by any magical source is huge also. But in the pure reduction dept thats all UH has a gain in is against magical damage. The math is 15% bigger AMS minus the 4-6% near constant of BB puts it in the 10% better category. But again DK's aren't plagued with caster problems.

B: Survivability against Meleecleave: The "Real" issue here.

1: Kiting

CoI root is decent and when below high duelist levels where a healer will be on the ball with dispels it will be nearly as strong as DA + Desc imo or maybe equal. The comps that will play frost won't last long enough to win a mana war so the Dispel cost isn't a factor. Also Frost has OaPH which is a very decent talent.

Da + Desc is a big thing and a strong mechanic. But here's the thing DA will fall off while kiting. Also UH DK on the run isn't a danger to Plague Deer. Charge and Gnaw are also going to be good ways of peeling/kiting but they are also big parts of UH's kill chains since they won't be a DPS that will burst something down like many 2nd DPS's will.

2: Frost LB vs UH LB heals.

UH: Many that talk about the LB difference forgets that while UH kites it has to spam CoI to generate RP. UH has a slow RP generation rate in general and HUGE ramp up times in general so often RP is spent trying to get runes back so you won't often be sitting around at 100 RP. AMS will help with this against melee other than Warriors and Ferals. But the heals are bigger and cheaper.

Frost: Frost can CoI kite while spamming HB to get more RP back than UH while doing damage I think that nullifies the cheaper RP cost for UH but not the heal size.

3: Oh shit buttons.

Neither has a real "oh shit button" in general but UH's superior AMS and AMZ count towards that. HC being useless unless playing with mages and druids does not qualify as one because the root would have been the peel you needed and you would probably be playing UH with that comp anyways.


Conclusion:

At this point if you completely count Frost out your doing it wrong and being completely one minded and following the forum kids without trying things out. It will work with some Meleecleaves better than UH. They will have to be TSG style comps that kill you in the span of their immunes or lose. Pre 4.1 Frost was superior in pretty much all Meleecleaves but especially TSG imo it will continue to be. It might also win out in a double Healer Disc + Rdruid/HPal comp as well but that's a wild guess I just came up with.

UH will work for all caster/DK/Healer comps in a superior way. I think in general it will be superior. I think it has slightly more tools and slightly better survivability. I think that if the pets got fixed it would further cement this.

[Ieft]

The guy on the previous page implied that he was going to play frost in DK/mage/priest because it will be better than unholy even though he has clearly not tried it out at a competitive level seeing as the only arena you can do right now is TR. If you think that, in theory, frost will be better for said comp then sure, go ahead, but don't come boasting about how you're 2600 rated when you haven't even tested the spec against proper players to see how good or how shit it is. Sure, it'll be 2600 viable but he'd need to actually be good for that. All I'm saying is I doubt he has the skills one would need to push frost to that kind of ratings post-patch. It's like saying frost/rogue/priest, the only viable comp for a frost page prior to 4.1 and all throughout WotLK was easily pushable to 2600. Which is wasn't.

TLDR; You're a nobody and you didn't even understand what I said, you need to sit down.

[Deleted]

TLDR; You're a nobody and you didn't even understand what I said, you need to sit down.

You seem to have misplaced the [/QUOTE] there, it was supposed to have been put after "sit down" and not right after "which is wasn't" (typo, I meant to write "it" and not "is", but that's fairly obvious).

Some people... Oh man. Zero arguments yet they try to be witty. Why do I even bother.

[Ieft]

Some people... Oh man. Zero arguments yet they try to be witty. Why do I even bother.

No I replied to what you were saying as you didn't understand what I said, stop trying to act smart. If you need I'll break what I actually said down into five year old talk for you.

[Deleted]

Act smart? In front of a bunch of peasants? Why would I do that? I just find it hilarious that you cannot argue any of my points and then try to look cool by copying what I said. Or well, I did. Not any more. The fun stops when they stop fighting back, starts getting pathetic and I'm not really the sadist kind.

Good bye.

[Ieft]

Act smart? In front of a bunch of peasants? Why would I do that? I just find it hilarious that you cannot argue any of my points and then try to look cool by copying what I said. Or well, I did. Not any more. The fun stops when they stop fighting back, starts getting pathetic and I'm not really the sadist kind.

Good bye.

Copying what you said as it's more applicable to you than anyone else, further justified by your inability to realise this.

[xBreak]

This guy clearly didn't read the thread thoroughly. While he does have some good points, leaving stuff out will obviously make one spec look better than another to somebody uneducated of the class.

Also.. "Anybody saying Desc is the only way to go is dumb!" Read the thread again.

People who don't read and try to reply are dumb. I clearly told him that Desecration was the spec to go last season in which I followed up with Unholy is better this season and that he can go the weaker specs if he prefers them, that I didn't really care.

I'll let you read the topic over again and hopefully you'll realize you're missing aspects of Unholy that I already discussed in this thread. Which helps specifically for melee cleaves.. -_-.

I know he prefers Frost over Unholy, I was just trying to inform him that Unholy will do better this season as it is right now, but if he prefers Frost then obviously he can play it. I wasn't trying to tell him that he must go Unholy, I mean Frost is viable obviously but looking at everything Unholy appears to have more potential right now. If he finds it more fun though, he'll personally preform better as Frost I guess.