Wotlk PvP more lasting than Cata PvP was intended to be

[Deleted]

One thing struck me odd as I watched the European Blizzcon battle.net invitational yesterday. These arena matches were so short compared to the lvl 80 arena matches at the last Blizzcon in autumn 2010.

Wasn't Cata PvP suppose to be more balanced and lasting? Well... you kill people faster now than before. It's gone the completely wrong direction.

What do you think?

[Thalais]

It was, but blizzard made changes for PvE and again it affects PvP. Feral Druids hit too damn hard, because in PvE, they hit too damn soft.

Also if your remember in WotLK:
Resilience did a lot more than it does now.

What blizzard needs to do and people have said this since BC or before:
Separate PvP and PvE. What this means:
When you go into a PvP instance, all your abilities are reduced to a balance portion.
By doing this, you can adjust PvE without causing PvP to be what it is now; Burst ... Dead.
There are warriors with a 1 shot macro, aka Swifty's 1 Shot Macro.

There are many things blizzard can do but they don't and sadly, this is how the game is going to be and this is why they are losing subs and next qt they will lose even more subs, not because the quests or PvE isn't enjoyable, but because people want to PvP and WoW isn't giving them what they want. New games are also coming out so that is the real reason why WoW subs will drop IMO.

[savvasp]

It was, but blizzard made changes for PvE and again it affects PvP. Feral Druids hit too damn hard, because in PvE, they hit too damn soft.

Also if your remember in WotLK:
Resilience did a lot more than it does now.

What blizzard needs to do and people have said this since BC or before:
Separate PvP and PvE. What this means:
When you go into a PvP instance, all your abilities are reduced to a balance portion.
By doing this, you can adjust PvE without causing PvP to be what it is now; Burst ... Dead.
There are warriors with a 1 shot macro, aka Swifty's 1 Shot Macro.

There are many things blizzard can do but they don't and sadly, this is how the game is going to be and this is why they are losing subs and next qt they will lose even more subs, not because the quests or PvE isn't enjoyable, but because people want to PvP and WoW isn't giving them what they want. New games are also coming out so that is the real reason why WoW subs will drop IMO.

I agreed with what you said until the inevitable "WOW WILL DIE BECAUSE OF X" . PvE and PvP separated would be great though .

[Thalais]

I agreed with what you said until the inevitable "WOW WILL DIE BECAUSE OF X" . PvE and PvP separated would be great though .

Never claimed they would die, I just said they would continue to lose subs.

Either way, the main portion of the post is that PvE does affect PvP when they buff classes. As does PvP affect PvE when they nerf classes.

The easiest thing blizzard could do is just Separate PvE and PvP. They already have abilities that do this:
CC's don't last as long on players as NPC's
Abilities like CS for warriors have reduced AP for players, but stays the same for PvE.

They have the tools and have already shown they can do it, they just need to do it and stop showing they could do it.

[lopk]

It was, but blizzard made changes for PvE and again it affects PvP. Feral Druids hit too damn hard, because in PvE, they hit too damn soft.

Also if your remember in WotLK:
Resilience did a lot more than it does now.

What blizzard needs to do and people have said this since BC or before:
Separate PvP and PvE. What this means:
When you go into a PvP instance, all your abilities are reduced to a balance portion.
By doing this, you can adjust PvE without causing PvP to be what it is now; Burst ... Dead.
There are warriors with a 1 shot macro, aka Swifty's 1 Shot Macro.

There are many things blizzard can do but they don't and sadly, this is how the game is going to be and this is why they are losing subs and next qt they will lose even more subs, not because the quests or PvE isn't enjoyable, but because people want to PvP and WoW isn't giving them what they want. New games are also coming out so that is the real reason why WoW subs will drop IMO.

Last time I heard, Blizzard's reason for not splitting abilities into PvE /PvP (which, trust me, has been suggested a LOT) is because it would be too confusing and overwhelming for new players. I understand the concern, but let's be serious here; they're neglecting end-game balance to make sure that this game is playable by ages early childhood to on the deathbed.

[Deleted]

Never claimed they would die, I just said they would continue to lose subs.

Either way, the main portion of the post is that PvE does affect PvP when they buff classes. As does PvP affect PvE when they nerf classes.

The easiest thing blizzard could do is just Separate PvE and PvP. They already have abilities that do this:
CC's don't last as long on players as NPC's
Abilities like CS for warriors have reduced AP for players, but stays the same for PvE.

They have the tools and have already shown they can do it, they just need to do it and stop showing they could do it.

They dont do it because they don't like abilities that function completely differently in different situations. ie Deep Freeze. They have already said in blue posts they don't want more "Deep Freeze" type abilities which act completely differently in PvE to PvP. They want skill and knowledge to transfer across both platforms and to be clear and obvious to new players too. If you use Frost Shock (to use an example from my class) in PvE and it slows, but then in PvP it roots the person in an ice block for 8 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown, you'd be like "WTF?". If all your asking for is for different numbers but mechanics to all work the same, then say you go to try and hit someone with say Lava Burst, hits for 40k (random number) in PvE, but then you go to use it on someone at 20k hp in PvP thinking they will die and it hits them for 10k cos its nerfed in PVP plus resilience, you'd be like "WTF?" again.

Blizzard don't want two games in one, and don't want you to have to learn your class twice. Thats the reason they dont do this.

[Roose]

Also if your remember in WotLK:
Resilience did a lot more than it does now.

What blizzard needs to do and people have said this since BC or before:
Separate PvP and PvE. What this means:
When you go into a PvP instance, all your abilities are reduced to a balance portion.
By doing this, you can adjust PvE without causing PvP to be what it is now; Burst ... Dead.

Resilience is stronger than ever. When have we have come anywhere close to 40% damage reduction? Resilience is OP if anything. Abilities hit insanely hard though too. I had a 50k AB in an arena the other day with 3900 resilience. Not supposed to let them get there I know, but that should never happen.

I do agree about separating pvp and pve. That, or go with the 1 tree per class is pvp kinda like Rift. People are just finding ways to get around the damage reduction of resilience and strength of healers. Adaptation. Blizz needs to adapt as well.

[Psychos]

One thing struck me odd as I watched the European Blizzcon battle.net invitational yesterday. These arena matches were so short compared to the lvl 80 arena matches at the last Blizzcon in autumn 2010.

Wasn't Cata PvP suppose to be more balanced and lasting? Well... you kill people faster now than before. It's gone the completely wrong direction.

What do you think?

Except they aren't shorter. Beastcleaves and Wizzcleaves could destroy a target in a global at high levels of play. Most of the games that were broadcasted actually lasted longer than WoTLK matches.

[Jwiski]

I've been having way longer matches in cata than in wotlk

[Eazy]

Why? Because Cata has other items, abilities and talent trees.

[wooootles]

You don't get flogged to red HP with a Lavaburst/ChainLightning combo in Cata

[Xzan]

Actually, the PvP now is in fairly good shape. There will always be some minor imbalances here and there of course...

If you remember the lvl80 matches, you will probably also remember how boring they were... The healers today are going oom. And I believe all the matches in Warszawa ended up with loss for team whose healer ran out of mana first. With one exception in Dalaran where the shammy went drinking and then fell behind with healing and couldn't get the DK back up due to CC and no defensive cooldowns left.

I will also go as far and say that looking at WoW arena as an e-sport it's far more enjoyable to have ~5min matches where you see stuff happen than watch 30+minutes of game where there's very little going on (except for Zoocleaves, lol) . And in case someone is in danger the healer could bring em up very fast. You don't see that happen today.

So if those arenas we witnessed there weren't in good shape, I don't know what could be. I do know for sure though that WotLK arenas sucked bad in comparison.

[Kakokun]

The problem is that blizzard wants to balance their PvP around PvE rather than balancing their PvE around the PvP.

[Thalais]

I don't want to go into the balance discussion of PvE effecting PvP and vi-verse.

What I believe is this:
If resilience is the only PvP stat, then it should incorporate all PvP issues, not just Damage. Reducing Healing helps in faster games but also helps in longer games for dps without healers.

If everyone had lower CC duration, then no one can claim one class is better than the other in pvp based on class.

[Deleted]

Well at the end of wotlk (or well, not very end, but around icc release and until last patch before cata) was the most balanced ever. They messed it up though, as we all know. And the nerf to resilience didn't make things better.

[Wow]

Resilience is stronger than ever. When have we have come anywhere close to 40% damage reduction? Resilience is OP if anything. Abilities hit insanely hard though too. I had a 50k AB in an arena the other day with 3900 resilience. Not supposed to let them get there I know, but that should never happen.

You could get that by the end of wrath and it lowered crit dmg and they stacked and lowered crit chance about 20%. I remember in full wrathful maxed res people could get crit dmg 50% lower lol, I don't think its stronger now.

[Deleted]

Resilience is stronger than ever. When have we have come anywhere close to 40% damage reduction? Resilience is OP if anything. Abilities hit insanely hard though too. I had a 50k AB in an arena the other day with 3900 resilience. Not supposed to let them get there I know, but that should never happen.

I do agree about separating pvp and pve. That, or go with the 1 tree per class is pvp kinda like Rift. People are just finding ways to get around the damage reduction of resilience and strength of healers. Adaptation. Blizz needs to adapt as well.

Resilience before last nerf was working really good, now adding res after 3,5k gives a very small increase and makes it slightly useless except for classes that have no other choice to stack it