Question About All the Hype on Demo

[rap87]

So, from reading up it seems that in short the hype about demo is that if you time all of your trinket procs, meta, and ds with your "DoomGuard" this substantially increases Demo's DPS enough to compete with affliction? I've always liked affliction and will probably stay affliction. I do like to keep up though and I'm always Demo in 5 mans or when I get bored or for the gimic AoE trash fights.

If, this is the case though regarding above...isn't it a little bit annoying with the long cooldown of the Doomguard? DPS go crazy then you wipe and then it might not be up in time...wish Blizz would fix that cooldown...

[Belloc]

It depends on the fight, really. Generally speaking, a doomguard isn't going to make or break your DPS. What you really need to pay attention to are timing your procs for meta, which has a significantly shorter cooldown. For instance, if you have a mastery proc, you wait until that's up and then hit meta. Meta snapshots your mastery, so you will have that mastery proc for the entire duration of your demon form, even if the proc expires.

Also, you want to time Demon Soul with Meta. Fortunately, Demon Soul's cooldown is very close to Meta's. Simply wait for it to come off CD and pop both of them.

It's really not that hard to manage, especially if you use power auras. Set up an aura for every proc and cooldown and cast accordingly.

[rap87]

Yeah, I'm aware of doing this for Affliction and BoD. I use Need to Know for tracking trinket procs and ICDS. When I get good trinket procs I will reapply BoD if its warranted. However, I was under the impression that Demo hadn't been on par with Affliction until they found out about the Doomguard triple dipping so to speak on mastery and then him hitting like a truck...

[Belloc]

Demo is currently just barely under affliction. Both specs suffer when Doomguard is on cooldown -- neither spec benefits more than the other. I suppose it all depends on the fight, but it's not hard to perform well as demonology as long as you know when to use your cooldowns.

[Penguin FTW]

neither spec benefits more than the other.

From the Doomguard?

[ircien]

no i don't think

[saosin]

Doom guard is a huge cooldown for demo, compared to when in affliction, my doomguard does 700k~ dmg in demo while it's only doing aprox 230k in affli and im not even geared for demo (stacking mastery).

They should really make doom guard have a bloodlust like effect so its cd reset when you die couse to only have it every second try really sucks...

[Jacus]

My doomguard in a 25 man raid (with pot, lightweave, power torrent, DMC:Voclano, Theralion's Mirror) will do between 940k and 975k in the 65s it's out so it's a massive CD for demo.


I agree, the CD would be soo much better it if death would reset it but to be honest I don't think it will happen. Our guardians have been working like this since the beginning of Cata and it's the same for fire elementals. CD was fine (more or less) at the beginning but now that it is triple dipping it does so much damage that you really notice it when it's on CD.

[Deleted]

In my opinion demo is the superior spec atm. not only for aoe but also for single target tank and spank dmg.

Last week my guild was raiding 10 man baleroc hc and i had alot of time to test specs with diffrent reforging strategies and demo seems to just rape affli, with affli being my better played spec, and any other spec cause of the doomguard.

In my opinion the doomguard scaling is broken atm. Yesterday we finally downed baleroc:

worldoflogs.com/reports/1ji2cnfzv1cq3jyb/sum/damageDone/?s=13102&e=13466#Prime (not allowed to post a link yet, so feel free to copy the link)

So overall 27k dps without standing in melee range, except for crystal tanking. So nearly no shadowflame and immo aura.

Stats reforged to hit cap, after that everything to mastery.

Doomguard:
dmg done: 1053471
dps: 17765.1

Overall demo dmg is fine/lacking, but from my point of view it is bad class design to be balanced around such a retarded dmg cooldown, that does 1kk dmg with 1 global and on top of it has a 10min cd, that doesnt reset on death.

Doomguard needs to be nerfed and demo nuke dmg needs to be buffed.

Bring back 30-35% execute range, buff hand of guldan dmg, buff felguard dmg.

[Jahrastafari]

Demo is currently just barely under affliction. Both specs suffer when Doomguard is on cooldown -- neither spec benefits more than the other. I suppose it all depends on the fight, but it's not hard to perform well as demonology as long as you know when to use your cooldowns.

Between the Demonology's mastery stacking, Moonwell Chalice and the Doomguard's 6% damage per point of mastery, the Doomguard is orders of magnitude more important to Demonology than it is Affliction.

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 08:25 AM ----------

Overall demo dmg is fine/lacking, but from my point of view it is bad class design to be balanced around such a retarded dmg cooldown, that does 1kk dmg with 1 global and on top of it has a 10min cd, that doesnt reset on death.

Doomguard needs to be nerfed and demo nuke dmg needs to be buffed.

Bring back 30-35% execute range, buff hand of guldan dmg, buff felguard dmg.

I think you're spot-on with your take. Personally, I anticipate we'll see Demonology re-tuned in 3.3/3.4 resulting in a Felguard that scales above the the felhunter, improved scaling in our nukes and a signifanct drop in mastery scaling of the Doomguard. Overall our output will remain the same or slightly higher.

[Malefic]

Managed to test Moonwell Chalice + Theralion's last night on Baleroc. Here's some of the numbers I was managing to pull;

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=24494&e=24634

Look at Doomguards damage there, it's stupid.

As others have said Doomguard needs to be nerfed damage wise and dropped to 5minute CD, or given a 5minute CD with a 10m ' exhaustion ' debuff.

Sadly I didn't have Doomguard up when we killed it otherwise I woulda done many deeps. .

[oraz]

Yep demo is way to dependant on Doomguard it really is painful not having it up per pull on progression, as long as they dont hotfix the triple dipping and give nothing in return which is what scares me..

Sad part is demo is only competing against Affliction cause of a bug ;/

[Deleted]

Yep demo is way to dependant on Doomguard it really is painful not having it up per pull on progression, as long as they dont hotfix the triple dipping and give nothing in return which is what scares me..

Sad part is demo is only competing against Affliction cause of a bug ;/

what bug ?

[saosin]

Another problem with demo that i've thought about... They kinda painted themself into a corner with warlock pets, Felhunter hit so hard becouse of we can stack so many debuffs on bosses. But if they wanna make felguard viable they can't just buff felguard dmg so it outdps felhunter, imagine a felguard running around and random critting 70k in pvp for example. If they gonna buff felguard dmg they gotta add some mechanic, like hand of guldan adding a new effect or something

[Jahrastafari]

Another problem with demo that i've thought about... They kinda painted themself into a corner with warlock pets, Felhunter hit so hard becouse of we can stack so many debuffs on bosses. But if they wanna make felguard viable they can't just buff felguard dmg so it outdps felhunter, imagine a felguard running around and random critting 70k in pvp for example. If they gonna buff felguard dmg they gotta add some mechanic, like hand of guldan adding a new effect or something

You mean like the stacking demonic frenzy buff that slowly escalated its dps on a target like they removed in 4.0?

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 11:25 AM ----------

what bug ?

The Doomguard has a 6% damage per point of mastery gain instead of the correct 2%, as well as doubling up on the Demonic Pact buff. This makes for a monster Doomguard, if timed well.

[Deleted]

I find that the trouble with Demo being such a cooldown dependant spec is that it works best when you can accurately plan your cooldown use, which tends to only happen when you're used to the fights, which tends to be when they're already past the point where they're hardest!

The more of your gear you use for mastery the more cooldown dependant the spec becomes, and also the slower it becomes: Shadow Bolts are hellishly slow when you've reforged and regemmed away all your Haste for Mastery rating. This slowness of casting is also a problem when you're less used to the fights as it's harder to guage where to stand and how to be economical with your movement when you're less used to the encounter.

If you don't prioritise Mastery then you're less crippled by failure to utilise your cooldowns, but you also sacrifice the potential strengths of the spec.

It may be worth practicing with the spec with a more Aff/Destro friendly Haste-heavy build to offset the weaknesses until you're happy with the spec and encounters then go for the Mastery build to take advantage of the power when you're able to take advantage of it.

[saosin]

You mean like the stacking demonic frenzy buff that slowly escalated its dps on a target like they removed in 4.0?

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 11:25 AM ----------

No I was refering to shadowbite doing 30% more dmg per debuff you have on target, hence why it's soo good to use Shadowflame on cd

Gonna add some to make my point clearer, since felguard dont have such mechanism it's gonna randomly hit for very high numbers in situations where it shouldnt if they don't come up with something.

[Malefic]

what bug ?

Doomguards are triple dipping mastery.

What that means in basic terms is it is taking your mastery into account, 3 times. Each point of Mastery is effectively increasing Doomguards damage by 6% instead of the tooltip stated 2%.

[Hoocha]

So meta snapshots your stats at the time of cast, but does doomguard take your meta stats or actual stats?
I've been opening with

Prepull
------------------
Soulburn
Soulharvest
Pre-pot

Pull
--------
Fel storm
CoE
Demon soul/moonwell
put up dots and nuke a few times
summon felpuppy (instant from prepull soulburn)
(Heroism was happening about here on our attempts tonight)
Wait for at least 1 between proc powertorrent/volcano (wait for 2 if none are going to fall off)
Metamorphisis
Imo aura
refresh dots
Pop doomguard (all of the buffs from when I popped meta have fallen off)

Using this method my doomguard would only get ~450k damage done which is a fair bit less than you guys have been reporting? /reports/cmqowla7r55v8nhl/sum/damageDone/?s=10992&e=11391 is an example (is there any easy way to see which buffs you had up at the time of each cast?). On one of the attempts he did more damage (~650k) which is what I would expect for my level of mastery (besides moonwell full affliction gear). And on other attempts he did less (~250k) so it cant all be wrong. I'm mainly just confused about what meta does and does not snapshot(mastery only?!)

Looking at that it might be advantageous to save demonsoul for after the meta...

If anyone can point out any obvious errors I'd be forever in your debt.

Otherwise I'm loving demo! A good change from affliction being a demon is the cooooooolest and I like having multiple nukes (shadowbolt,incin and sf)

[Penguin FTW]

Meta only snapshots your mastery, all the other buffs will just give you more spell power to hit harder, which is then increased by whatever % buff your meta had from your mastery at the time of use. Doomguard is affected by all your stats, so it's ideal to pop him during lust with your mastery trinket first, and then as many of your spellpower procs up as possible while still keeping that mastery buff for him.