do you want a redesign for ret?

[Badpaladin]

Nothing wrong with the retribution spec, only the players behind it.
What i feel is wrong with the spec atm, is its underperforming dps.
Could the dps be improved just a bit it would be a very viable class to bring into raids.

We got a ret in g1, and my god he is doing awesome dps. So again, its the players behind the spec being the problem, and to some extent the not to high dps they produce at the same time. But, amazing players makes amazing dps. Bad players dont.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

As far as data is concerned, retribution is behind every "primary" DPS spec in the game (tied with enhance, who are also in a bad place).

[Pivotpony]

Crusader strike and Divine Storm should stop sharing CD, and DS should grant one HP.

That would be enough for me, I think.

[Unferth]

Im so fucking sick of how Ret is. Im fucking sick of going 2 mins and getting 3 procs.

Our class is so fucked up. My raid dps goes fluctuates by +-10K because I either got good procs or I didnt.

Im sick of fucking standing their and hitting CS and not doing ANYTHING till CS comes up again.

This is not "skill" this is bullshit. Don't act like this shit takes skill because it fucking doesn't. None of the classes require skill because if they did nobody would play this game.

I like Ret the way it is, CS, filler, filler.

Really? Because that's not what it is. At all. thats what it is at the start of a fight. what do you do when nothing procs and everything is on cooldown?

[Deleted]

The only thing i want...is an 8 or 10 sec CD on TV...and holy power only for inq and WoG. And maybe TV refreshes inq.
then i would think like i still have balls in some situation.

i would like to see what a arms warri would say if he had to use 3 heroic strike before he could use his mortal strike...

please be lenient english is not my native tongue.

[Jaitee]

remove DS from the shared CD take away its interaction with holy power give it no CD but make sure its single target damage isnt good enough that we spam it single target and win this could be done through a mechanic as simple as does 50% weapon damage + 33% more for every enemy over one that it hits up too a max of 100% increased damage

give CS a 3 second CD

allow haste to reduce the CD on judgment at a 1 too 1 ratio so 100% haste it has no CD and haste also increases the duration of inquisition at a 1 too 1 ratio again so 100% haste 100% increased duration

[Deleted]

Make CS 3 sec cd
Ret fixed

[Arterus]

Ret was faceroll in WOTLK, it's still faceroll in Cata, the only difference being you now must count to 3 and refresh a buff every 30 seconds.

As a Paladin who's played (raided) all 3 specs since Vanilla. Holy Power can diaf.

Nearly every class in the game has a pretty simple rotation. During WoTLK Rets rotation wasn't even at the top of that "faceroll" list. For far less effort you could have played a warrior for example and output more dps in the same gear. The same held true for nearly every class in the game.

Retribution in WoTLK was a far more solid experience. This was even more true when Exorcism was added to the normal rotation as well as the addition of the 2pc t10 bonus later in the expansion. The priority system was solid, and the spec gave the ability for the exceptional players to truly make their mark by adjusting small things.

In Cataclysm the entire system feels clunky. It was much worse before the adjustments in the 3.1 patch. Its almost annoying to play at times.

[Deleted]

Ret in arena currently is a support class (freedom, bop, heals, sacr). I don't actually like that. DK in my team is doing much more damage than I do. Don't blame me though - Vanguardy stated that he also did much less damage than DK or warrior in his team. But ret has an impressive burst (I'd like to state that it's the game, but have no fact to prove it), of course if he stays on target and not being controlled.

I don't like to off-heal though, but that's my personal preference. I'd gladly trade our off-heals to some sustained damage to be on par with other dd classes.

Oh and inquisition. Upkeeping it =/= fun, really.

[Grimbold21]

I dont understand all these "ret is fine" replies. How is it fine to be under top10 ? You may give me the "its not about the meters" answer, or maybe its just me, but perfoming good in said meters as a dpsers is related to how much fun you're having. You could have the best specc in the game - in terms of playstyle - but if you were at the bottom, where's the fun in that?

The problem is - in my opinion anyway - that the spec isnt fun at all and your dps is crap. The specc is boring and unatractive and your best moment is those 30 seconds where you pop all your cds and then its all up and downs, but, no matter what, you'll finish bellow 10th.

[Vuagnon]

Do you see such threads like this being as frequently posted as here in other class forums? Why are the Paladin class forums are always flooded and focused with ideas and suggestions of redesigning or improving its specs one way or another more than any other subject? Perhaps the majority of the Paladin playerbase have so much free time, are so creative and enjoy spending time on the forums to engage the brainstorming almost every single day more than actually playing the game they are paying for.

Or is there something terribly wrong going on?

[Darkcrowpnoy]

Blizz just doesn't know what to do with ret... at first they want us to off-heal in pvp, now they don't. They said they don't want us to be bursty... heck that's almost all I do in RBG/Arena - wait for the right moment then go GWARHGGHAHGASHGASGH

[Kelesti]

Word of Glory no longer has a cooldown for Retribution, but using it removes Zealotry.

Redesign Holy Wrath to work a la Howling Blast.
Talenting into Sacred Shield also always increases Word of Glory when cast on yourself by 3% of your health pool, per Holy Power.
Selfless Healer heals yourself by 15/30% of the amount of the targetted player.
Remove the Holy Power gained from Divine Storm. If Divine Storm hits 3+ targets, Inquisition gains 6 seconds.

Censure and Glyph of Exorcism scale with Haste (extra ticks on the glyph), and the effect of haste rating for Sanctity of Battle increased.


Tweaks, without giving into the need for a total redesign.

As for the complaints about "dead time" and not pushing any buttons, clearly you've never actually tried a Fury Warrior.

[LordDios]

I personally enjoy pvp ret as it is, tho i don't know any better. Someone will always bitch about their class/spec. there's 30 of them, someone will always be convinced they can be made better

[Agathon]

well i rerolled and raid as a warrior now - so that should answer if i like current ret and if i would like another ret revamp.
i only raid with my ret in a twink raid one night a week that clears firelands (only shannox on hc yet) and i still find it painful to bare for the 2-4 hours i have to endure it a week. its just soooo awful. yay cds are up 40k dps.....oh nevermind cds are gone and i am dropping down to 20k and iam staying there while everybody and there mother passes me. (well it is a caster group :/) i remember a staghelm wipe this week where over 2 minutes in i had not crit once with any ability ^^ i dont have top gear on this char anymore but still, crit is way to low to be fun, parried cs is unfair, everytime i holy wrath i mumble fuck you and going oom when using hw and conc on cd is also really cool.
so: hw sucks, conc sucks, critchance sucks, sustained dmg sucks, too few fillers, too much emphasize on cs that has a shit mechanic when being parried in a tier where you have to stay in front of some bosses, no meaningful offheals anymore , savage roar blows.
i keep topping charts or at least 1-5 on my warrior, thanks.

[terrahero]

-Judgements of the Bold mechanic for Prot and Ret removed. Instead Prot and Ret get a baseline 3% mana every second just from speccing into either trees.

-Judgement generates 1 holy power, baseline effect.

-Judgements damage increased by 100% across the board.

-Art of War no longer procs from auto attack. Instead it procs from your damaging Judgement spell. Chance to proc increased to 40%

-Divine Purpose reworked. It no longer gives fillers a 15% chance to proc Divine Purpose. Instead your Art of War now makes your Exorcism, when empowered, generate 1 holy power.

-Divine Storm no longer shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike.

-Sanctified Wrath. Avenging Wrath no longer lets you use Hammer of Wrath freely. Instead your Hammer of Wrath will reset the duration on Inquisition to its full 3 holy power duration.

-Sanctity of Battle also reduces the cooldown on Judgement.

-Crusaderstrike has its cooldown instantly reset whenever it Misses. If Crusaderstrike gets parried, blocked or dodged it will still generate 1 holy power, but will not have its cooldown reset.

Id also like to do some things with Long Arm of the Law, but meh.

[vanguards1]

I played ret in wotlk and I have to say... its better now. Ret is much more enjoyable now than it was in wotlk and I have no problem whatsoever playing ret in both PvE and PvP (although some classes just own rets. but hey, every class can be beaten by another one.)

[Kelesti]

-Judgements of the Bold mechanic for Prot and Ret removed. Instead Prot and Ret get a baseline 3% mana every second just from speccing into either trees.

-Judgement generates 1 holy power, baseline effect.

-Judgements damage increased by 100% across the board.

-Art of War no longer procs from auto attack. Instead it procs from your damaging Judgement spell. Chance to proc increased to 40%

-Divine Purpose reworked. It no longer gives fillers a 15% chance to proc Divine Purpose. Instead your Art of War now makes your Exorcism, when empowered, generate 1 holy power.

-Divine Storm no longer shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike.

-Sanctified Wrath. Avenging Wrath no longer lets you use Hammer of Wrath freely. Instead your Hammer of Wrath will reset the duration on Inquisition to its full 3 holy power duration.

-Sanctity of Battle also reduces the cooldown on Judgement.

-Crusaderstrike has its cooldown instantly reset whenever it Misses. If Crusaderstrike gets parried, blocked or dodged it will still generate 1 holy power, but will not have its cooldown reset.

Id also like to do some things with Long Arm of the Law, but meh.

Judgement changes are interesting. You're not factoring into the point that with more Holy Power, Templar's Verdict damage would actually have to come down by a fair bit.

I'm not sure about the Art of War change. Definitely not liking the new Divine Purpose. Current DP is like Hot Streak, you notice when you get it, and it's awesome to push that heavy hitter. Exorcism is less awesome than Templar's Verdict, and you aren't pushing it more often. In fact, less, because you're only getting one shot per Judgement cycle.

Sanctified Wrath.... oooh that's actually a pretty awesome idea. I like that. A lot. A lot a lot.

Crusader Strike and Divine Storm changes have me >:| in more ways than one, but that Sanctified Wrath... wow. That's good.

[Consata]

The problem with ret isnt the fact that there is something wrong with the spec, talents, abilities and so on. Its the fact that a rogue dose more healing then us, hell a warrior with enrage regen dose more then what we can do with our 10sec 10k heal (not to mention the fact that we get that 10k insted of doing 40k dmg). This is the fact for most hybrids atm and i think its wrong. Atleast the way i understand the way of hybrids / pure dps classes work is that pure dps classes have more offence and hybrids have more defence

At the moment it isnt like this at all which is what i want.

OT: Zealotry reduces the cooldown of Divine Storm to 1 secound in addition to its current effect OR When you have Zealotry activated, your DS grants you 3 HP in addition to its current effect

[SuperomegaOP]

they shouldnt have messed with the old wrath ret... majority wants it back on 99% of the polls about it...

in pvp they were o so very good... but they had nothing to fight against ranged classes in a duel... maybe hunters sometimes... cleanse was ok... but sometimes it took 2-3 times to get a snare off if u had multiple dots and thanks to old dispel resist talents it became even harder...

all they had to do was put in more unique abilites that actually served us use... cough*rebuke*cough and some gap closer that isnt as bland as long arm of the lawlolol

if they tuned down the burst damage and sustained dps even a bit and gave us something else to put in our rotation that was fun and not 1234 as so many people think


put to this point... the worst thing about the new ret is that they took out instant fol out of art of war.... i was devastated when i heard they took it out in beta and recently just gave it to holy... TO HOLY ARE U KIDDING ME?

i actually tried to find a private wrath server JUST to pvp with a ret again... but i decided not to and havent taken wow seriously since i first tried out ret back in beta...

ive been looking at swtor forums for a few months now... the threads are the same dull things because of the NDA but its something to look forward too



EDIT* oh and did i mention that back in wrath judgement was our hardest hitting move and now its the weakest... it only does like 1k difference or so depending on inq and gear

[TripleSix]

I like like ret very much in it's current state. I don't have problems DPS-wise in PvE and can deliver serious hurt in PvP. The only things, that are bothering me is the degree of CD-reliance, Divine Purpose RNG and the fact, that wings are too easily dispelled..
Other than that I have nothing to complain.