Random Arena

[Deleted]

Certainly, many of you are familiar with the situation of endlessly and fruitlessly searching for people for your arena team, especially as an alt if you have no means to invoke a link of a high rating achievement... the honest way.

Maybe you're on an RP realm where the PvP community is very small.

You got through many instances that require a great deal of emotional intelligence, the ability to deal with other people.

Loads of time is spent searching, many things can go wrong: From the situation when the healer you recruited may go offline just as you recruit the DPS, and the DPS going offline just as you recruit another healer, all the way to actually forming the team, which would be actually playing good but never logging in again and ending up disbanded.

Keeping the team together feels like a godly effort, going to 2.2k with a PuG is like crossing a very fragile bridge. You wanna cross ASAP, before that damn bridge collapses.



In any of those situations, finding an arena team and getting high rating actually looks like a very daunting process.

Random Battleground seem to be a great success, and this is what gets us to the point:
What if there was Random Arena?

So much less time would be spent searching for people, and you'd be actually able to focus on end-game PvP!
I know, "There are so many ways it can go wrong!" you think. I did my homework though! Hold on tight now.

It reminds you of Skirmish does it? What did ppl queue in Skirmish for? 2vs2.
But we know 2vs2 is horribly broken. Random Arena would only be in the 3vs3 bracket.

Well, ye. I ended up pugged with 2 nubs in greens GG!
I noticed matchmaking systems Blizz made of late are pretty clever. To be eligible for Random Arena one would have to wear at least full Vicious. During the queue and the preparation, to prevent some exploiting or trolling, you cannot change the items you wear, or your spec. No PvE items will be allowed in Random Arena.

"Way to go I'm a healer and I got pugged with 2 other healers ffs." OR "Oh dammit all 3 of us are HUNTERS."
I gave that some thought. As I said above, matchmaking systems are pretty clever, and PvP items are not so many. To be eligible for Random Arena, you must wear a valid item configuration, otherwise the button is gray.

If you are a Ret paladin, and are wearing some +int PvP items the button will be gray.
If you are a shadowpriest and have some disc items though, it will be valid.
The basic rule is not to have the 'wrong main stat'. All items must be Str, Agi, or Int only, and fitting in with the spec.

There will be 2 roles for Random Arena. Healer and DPS. Perhaps the DPS can be split in Melee and Ranged, but that would make the queues long.
All setups will be 2 DPS, 1 Healer. You don't chose the role. The system identifies your set and chooses the role. It shows up on your interface.
While queued or during preparation, you can't change items or specs.

Also, the system shouldn't put 2 people of the same class in the same team.

Hey Diez but what if they 'cleverly' queue up as premade for an unfair advantage?
Random Arena would never PuG you with people on the same realm as you.
I know they'll find a way to cheat that though, if you run into someone in Random Arena, you won't team with him again for the next 30 or 60 minutes. It'll be horribly boring to try exploit it. I'm not certain on what impact it'll have on the queues.

In 3vs3 a lot of things happen, blam gates open, we'd have to set up Skype in like 30 seconds to setup something fast before those suckers hop on us!
As Random Arena is... random, you'll end up queued with a setup you likely never heard of. You'll be able to see the enemy team on the Scoreboard during preparation. You can read their specs and see the roles. You will be able to setup ahead of time. You'll be able to plan more than just "Go healer" even without voice chat.
Preparation will last 15 seconds longer too, just so you plan more.

Ok, Ok, how does it work? No more regular arena!?
Hold your horses, you can still do the regular arena Regular and Random 3vs3 will also count as different brackets.

You'll gain rating for winning, depending on MMR, just like in normal Arena. Also you'll get Conquest Points, at the same rate as regular Arena. You'll be teamed with people at your MMR, against people at your MMR

There will be no battlegroup for this. Every English EU can get paired, unless he is on ignore list or is on the same realm, and they can be paired vs the other language servers!

There are two ways this would go:
At 2.2k you can get the Elite set, as it's 3vs3. And probably also gain titles in the same way as Arena, the Regular 3vs3 and Random 3vs3 counting as separate brackets. Title rewards'll be given by ranking across Battlegroups.
OR
Simply gain 35 conquest, 35 honor after cap, counting on your arena cap, without changing any rating or Arena or RBG MMR, which would be handy for the 'LF Cap' situation, you wouldn't have do disband anything, should your team be offline for a while.

Ideally, that will mean less time searching, and more time actually PvP-ing!

TLR
Read it thoroughly or you'll end up sounding very silly.

[Slickx]

I read it 3 times and I still don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

[ZombyChan]

I read it 3 times and I still don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

Protip: he typed it in english.

Not sure what's not to get, he's bringing up the idea of random arenas. Queue up, get two random people.

[winkysmnm]

I was right there with you until you said no pve gear. Considering I run Volcano - Challice as a frost mage i think i will be grumpy if i dont get to use those regardless.

[savvasp]

Random Arenas implemented . X decides to join
X Joins with a non-viable spec
X finds Y and Z (XYZ really bad)
XYZ finds MLS and easily loses
Forums gets spammed with threads : "LOL BLIZZ CAN'T THINK OF IDEAS SHOULD GET FIRED GAME SUX I PLAY [INSERT GAME HERE] BECAUSE ITS BETTAZ"

I can already see it

Seriously tho : 2v2 Skirmish is all i want ..

[Rukh]

I like it, I think it would be great fun to have to make sauce with what you're given. Remember, its just as good a chance the opponents are the ones with nonviable nab specs.

[Eazy]

I like it, really. It remind me of Skirmishes. Everyone was doing them in free time, also people would train how to PvP better.

[Bob Dole]

I like it. I've said for years that PVP in WoW needs more chaos, and this would be beautiful, beautiful chaos.

[Deleted]

Random Arenas implemented . X decides to join
X Joins with a non-viable spec
X finds Y and Z (XYZ really bad)
XYZ finds MLS and easily loses
Forums gets spammed with threads : "LOL BLIZZ CAN'T THINK OF IDEAS SHOULD GET FIRED GAME SUX I PLAY [INSERT GAME HERE] BECAUSE ITS BETTAZ"

I can already see it

Seriously tho : 2v2 Skirmish is all i want ..

Yep that's the risk of random, one may occasionally run into a FOTM, or that it might be a bad combo.

However that would not be a problem with the system, it would be a class balance problem. If class balance is sorted, then there will no problem with the system.

I thought of this system more as an option for those who have trouble finding teams due to lack of community, and to have more random PvP encounters at a higher frequency, with less bargaining and negotiation and waiting for people to be online would make the game much nicer.

Lack of PvE items would help balance things in a way, because PvE items make matters highly variable and unstable, soon we will have the legendary staff and things would go crazy like with Shadowmourne. Many balance issues in arena appear because of PvE items. See Shadowmourne, see Unheeded Warning, Deathbringer's Will, it goes on

[kombucha]

Arenas require too much coordination for this... at least if you actually want to win consistently. The idea has some good intention behind it, but when you think about it from a practical standpoint it doesn't pan out.

Think about the worst possible group you've been grouped with in say WSG. Now think about the time where you're lucky enough to get a 2200+ rated person or a nice premade 5-man team in your random WSG, now... think about the fact that anyone who is of any respectable skill in Arena already has friends to play with and would have no use for this feature. Now, think about the fact that friends who would group together and do well in WSG could just as easily make an arena team themselves and thus have no use for this feature. Suddenly you're left with all the really bad people you get grouped with randomly in WSG, only this time it's just you and 2 other people, in a situation where coordination and communication are a necessity for success.

...yeah.

Also I want to point out that having a full set of S10 Vic honor gear does not atomically make a person ready for arenas, resilience keeps you alive, but skill and knowledge wins the match for you. Also (as has been said) some PvP trinkets are BiS or PvP, and lastly the communication required for Arenas is needed most during the match, not before it, and the scoreboard idea wouldn't do much to remedy this.

Arena's are meant to be the next step up, AFTER you've dredged through all those randoms, getting geared and learning your class. Tossing random people into Arena who don't have adequate experience is just a bad idea, no what what way you look at it.

Again, novel idea with good intentions, but simply doesn't work in practice.

[Deleted]

Certainly, many of you are familiar with the situation of endlessly and fruitlessly searching for people for your arena team, especially as an alt if you have no means to invoke a link of a high rating achievement... the honest way.

Maybe you're on an RP realm where the PvP community is very small.

You got through many instances that require a great deal of emotional intelligence, the ability to deal with other people.

Loads of time is spent searching, many things can go wrong: From the situation when the healer you recruited may go offline just as you recruit the DPS, and the DPS going offline just as you recruit another healer, all the way to actually forming the team, which would be actually playing good but never logging in again and ending up disbanded.

Keeping the team together feels like a godly effort, going to 2.2k with a PuG is like crossing a very fragile bridge. You wanna cross ASAP, before that damn bridge collapses.



In any of those situations, finding an arena team and getting high rating actually looks like a very daunting process.

Random Battleground seem to be a great success, and this is what gets us to the point:
What if there was Random Arena?

So much less time would be spent searching for people, and you'd be actually able to focus on end-game PvP!
I know, "There are so many ways it can go wrong!" you think. I did my homework though! Hold on tight now.

It reminds you of Skirmish does it? What did ppl queue in Skirmish for? 2vs2.
But we know 2vs2 is horribly broken. Random Arena would only be in the 3vs3 bracket.

Well, ye. I ended up pugged with 2 nubs in greens GG!
I noticed matchmaking systems Blizz made of late are pretty clever. To be eligible for Random Arena one would have to wear at least full Vicious. During the queue and the preparation, to prevent some exploiting or trolling, you cannot change the items you wear, or your spec. No PvE items will be allowed in Random Arena.

"Way to go I'm a healer and I got pugged with 2 other healers ffs." OR "Oh dammit all 3 of us are HUNTERS."
I gave that some thought. As I said above, matchmaking systems are pretty clever, and PvP items are not so many. To be eligible for Random Arena, you must wear a valid item configuration, otherwise the button is gray.

If you are a Ret paladin, and are wearing some +int PvP items the button will be gray.
If you are a shadowpriest and have some disc items though, it will be valid.
The basic rule is not to have the 'wrong main stat'. All items must be Str, Agi, or Int only, and fitting in with the spec.

There will be 2 roles for Random Arena. Healer and DPS. Perhaps the DPS can be split in Melee and Ranged, but that would make the queues long.
All setups will be 2 DPS, 1 Healer. You don't chose the role. The system identifies your set and chooses the role. It shows up on your interface.
While queued or during preparation, you can't change items or specs.

Also, the system shouldn't put 2 people of the same class in the same team.

Hey Diez but what if they 'cleverly' queue up as premade for an unfair advantage?
Random Arena would never PuG you with people on the same realm as you.
I know they'll find a way to cheat that though, if you run into someone in Random Arena, you won't team with him again for the next 30 or 60 minutes. It'll be horribly boring to try exploit it. I'm not certain on what impact it'll have on the queues.

In 3vs3 a lot of things happen, blam gates open, we'd have to set up Skype in like 30 seconds to setup something fast before those suckers hop on us!
As Random Arena is... random, you'll end up queued with a setup you likely never heard of. You'll be able to see the enemy team on the Scoreboard during preparation. You can read their specs and see the roles. You will be able to setup ahead of time. You'll be able to plan more than just "Go healer" even without voice chat.
Preparation will last 15 seconds longer too, just so you plan more.

Ok, Ok, how does it work? No more regular arena!?
Hold your horses, you can still do the regular arena Regular and Random 3vs3 will also count as different brackets.

You'll gain rating for winning, depending on MMR, just like in normal Arena. Also you'll get Conquest Points, at the same rate as regular Arena. You'll be teamed with people at your MMR, against people at your MMR

There will be no battlegroup for this. Every English EU can get paired, unless he is on ignore list or is on the same realm, and they can be paired vs the other language servers! Rewards'll be given by ranking across Battlegroups.

At 2.2k you can get the Elite set, as it's 3vs3. And probably also gain titles in the same way as Arena, the Regular 3vs3 and Random 3vs3 counting as separate brackets.

Ideally, that will mean less time searching, and more time actually PvP-ing!

TLR
Read it thoroughly or you'll end up sounding very silly.

I'd like random arena if it only rewarded honour. A much smaller amount than in random bgs but still something so you can choose to do both

[Rukh]

Arenas require too much coordination for this... at least if you actually want to win consistently. The idea has some good intention behind it, but when you think about it from a practical standpoint it doesn't pan out.

Think about the worst possible group you've been grouped with in say WSG. Now think about the time where you're lucky enough to get a 2200+ rated person or a nice premade 5-man team in your random WSG, now... think about the fact that anyone who is of any respectable skill in Arena already has friends to play with and would have no use for this feature. Now, think about the fact that friends who would group together and do well in WSG could just as easily make an arena team themselves and thus have no use for this feature. Suddenly you're left with all the really bad people you get grouped with randomly in WSG, only this time it's just you and 2 other people, in a situation where coordination and communication are a necessity for success.

...yeah.

Also I want to point out that having a full set of S10 Vic honor gear does not atomically make a person ready for arenas, resilience keeps you alive, but skill and knowledge wins the match for you. Also (as has been said) some PvP trinkets are BiS or PvP, and lastly the communication required for Arenas is needed most during the match, not before it, and the scoreboard idea wouldn't do much to remedy this.

Arena's are meant to be the next step up, AFTER you've dredged through all those randoms, getting geared and learning your class. Tossing random people into Arena who don't have adequate experience is just a bad idea, no what what way you look at it.

Again, novel idea with good intentions, but simply doesn't work in practice.

As already said, you wouldn't be against premade teams. You'd be against other unorganized teams. Every other person would have the same chance of getting the l2p nab. The opponents you get and smash for an easy win, the other people trying to get high ratings, everybody. Teams would still be better for getting good rating, but this would allow people who have trouble getting a team, or just want to do some quick pick up games to do something.

[asb]

I miss skirmishes. I really don't see why they removed that feature, and I would like it back. I'm not sure that I'd like it to return in this way, though. It really seems like a feature designed just to feed a conquest cap to players that don't feel like doing it with the current system. You say that it would save time and let you focus on endgame PvP, but this wouldn't be endgame. It would be more like giving you a rating based on your W:L ratio in random battlegrounds. I just can't see this as a real measure of skill. Your wins would be dependent on the skill of your randomly paired teammates, and to a lesser extent your exact team composition. However, if there is a way to possibly balance a random arena team like this, you've pretty much covered the best possible scenario for it. Every team being melee/ranged/healer with no PvE gear allowed certainly sounds about as close as it could get.

I'd just like skirmishes back in the form they once existed, but with premade group functionality removed. It wasn't for points or balance, it was for fun when you were bored. Or maybe it was supposed to be for practice before doing ranked games, but that's not really necessary. I liked an environment wherein both teams could randomly have a terrible comp or gear, but since it was just for laughs you did what you could and it didn't matter. Adding extra rules and rewards would make it a very different thing.

Suddenly you're left with all the really bad people you get grouped with randomly in WSG, only this time it's just you and 2 other people, in a situation where coordination and communication are a necessity for success.

That's pretty much what I was thinking too, but he also said he'd consider passing out arena rewards for this bracket. I assume a lot of players would be chasing a title here since it would probably be easier (or at least more subject to chance).

[Deleted]

Again, novel idea with good intentions, but simply doesn't work in practice.

Yep, yore post made good points, but it's as I said, that's the risk of random There'll be no such thing as flawless most likely. And nabs in purples often turn out more useful than nabs in greens, if your rating goes up, then you won't run into the nabs.

One aspect does get me worried though. If a bad player ends up with 2 good players and well even if he's bad, his MMR would also get boosted. Of course they would very likely lose to setups that have 3 good players in them. Worse yet, it could go the other way around.

I'd like random arena if it only rewarded honour. A much smaller amount than in random bgs but still something so you can choose to do both

Something like that could work. Or perhaps grant 35 conquest per win, without granting any rating or having any ladder, it would be an alternative for the "LF 2vs2 for cap". Not mention the instant action.

[Krimson]

It's kind of a good idea. I would definitely take advantage of this feature on my alts, who I don't necessarily have the time to run serious teams with.

They have this in SC2 so it's not really a stretch to do it in WoW. You can queue for ranked 2v2 / 3v3 / 4v4 matches by yourself and get matched with random teammates of a similar MMR.

[Alvito]

I read it 3 times and I still don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

Another "let me queue for arena by myself and get 1, 2 or 4 random teamates" thread.

Why would you want to just take what the random search engine would give you? We have all seen the idiots roaming the BG maps would you really want one of those brain dead ppl in a arena group with you? Doing arenas with strangers with little to no set up time, vent or game plan would be a nightmare.

---------- Post added 2011-08-05 at 02:47 PM ----------

It's kind of a good idea. I would definitely take advantage of this feature on my alts, who I don't necessarily have the time to run serious teams with.

They have this in SC2 so it's not really a stretch to do it in WoW. You can queue for ranked 2v2 / 3v3 / 4v4 matches by yourself and get matched with random teammates of a similar MMR.

SC2 doesn't have the ballance issues between races or huge mismatches that different class combos have against others like WoW does.

[Bombkirby]

I was right there with you until you said no pve gear. Considering I run Volcano - Challice as a frost mage i think i will be grumpy if i dont get to use those regardless.

My thoughts exactly.

How about this: You need a certain amount of RESILIENCE to be allowed to queue. Our stat screens keep track of our total resilience so it should be a snap.

[Stanton Biston]

If there was a solo queueable arena that awarded conquest points, it would:

Gut the other areas of PvP of participants
Induce lots of whining about welfare epics
Devalue world PvP farther
Exaggerate feelings of the lack of a community
And force a reworking of titles because some battlegroups wouldn't have the 200 teams needed to get their first Gladiator, assuming the system works like that.

All in all, Blizzard would never do it.

[kombucha]

As already said, you wouldn't be against premade teams. You'd be against other unorganized teams. Every other person would have the same chance of getting the l2p nab. The opponents you get and smash for an easy win, the other people trying to get high ratings, everybody. Teams would still be better for getting good rating, but this would allow people who have trouble getting a team, or just want to do some quick pick up games to do something.

So you're saying "It's ok, because both sides will have no idea what they're doing..." That by itself doesn't sound fun to me personally. Also, consider the fact that there are people of varying skill levels and experience who would potentially use this feature; even with a lowish rating like 1200, a person will still have a severe advantage over the new guy who's Quing up for the first on his first toon after grinding BGs for a week.

Stanton also brings a REALLY important point; more solo-Q content would further damage the meager server communities we have now. Anyone who was around in Vanilla will remember that BGs had a nice flavor for a lot of people because everyone involved was from the same server... granted, I by no means WANT 6 hour BG Qs back, but I'm just making a point.

[Siberia]

If there was a solo queueable arena that awarded conquest points, it would:

Gut the other areas of PvP of participants
Induce lots of whining about welfare epics
Devalue world PvP farther
Exaggerate feelings of the lack of a community
And force a reworking of titles because some battlegroups wouldn't have the 200 teams needed to get their first Gladiator, assuming the system works like that.

All in all, Blizzard would never do it.

^ This unfortunately.

If Blizzard is going to be releasing any PvP content, I'd hope it would be something actually different and not just another way to queue for the same thing we already have available. (no offense)