Limited 25 mans

[Maneo]

I fail to understand Blizzards logic. On Cenarion Circle I think with the Horde and Alliance combined there are now maybe five 25 mans running.

Such as my 25 man group has fallen apart.

Initially was going to look for a 10 man. After thinking about it for a bit, I realized I enjoyed 25 mans a great deal more then the ten man due to the interaction with more people and over all community of it.

Now in all honesty I am trying to decide if leaving WoW (to search for greener MMO pastures may be the answer).

With the lockouts being shared by 10 and 25 man (limiting the number of players you can get for a 25) I don't see the lack of 25 man raids improving in the near future if at all. I highly doubt Blizzard has any plans to remedy this themselves.

Soon the 25 mans will go the way of the 40 man, leaving me with a decision. Will 10 mans ever be as enjoyable for me as a 25 and saddly I think I already know the answer to that.

[Cocoa]

It's really too bad that Cenarion Circle is the only server you could look on for a 25 man guild to join.

[Maneo]

Yeah I catch your sarcasm yes I could transfer to another server.

However I have all my toon slots filled with five 85s (and my wife with her 3 85s) having every profession covered, and bank toons with a load of gold to match.

Oh and then there are my friends on this server... and the fact it costs 25 bucks to xfer ( if I xfered every toon it would be over 200 dollars)

Also from my understanding all servers have very few 25 mans now days

[Video Games]

Yes 25 mans are dying on a lot of servers, but what is the point if this thread anyway?

[Maneo]

Honestly

A. to see if anyone else feels that 25 mans are going the way of the 40 mans
B. If anyone else is as saddened as I am about A.
C. And to vent a little been playing the game since Vanilla, had taken breaks in the past, but never thought about just quitting as I am now

[Mammoth]

It has always been the case that the number of possible 25 man guilds has been limited. It would be wrong to assume that you deserve to run one just because you want one. Players are always fickle, 25 man guilds are constantly recruiting and losing members. If the server has too many 25 man guilds you find you lose players to the other 25 man guilds as people shift to guilds with further progress, causing yours to crumble. This is the natural way of 25 man guilds.

[Maneo]

Although I understand the point you are getting to Mammoth.

Until this xp I have always had a 25 man (vanilla I had 40).

At the beginning of this xp I was in a 10 initially (for a few weeks) , then got into a 25 man that I have been in for sometime (it just died last week). After networking and doing some research Alliance on my server only has two 25 mans at the moment.

So although 25 mans have always been a bit more difficult to get into, with there only being two its almost impossible.

[Video Games]

Well my server went from like 104 to 3. And 2 of those killed most of the bosses in 10 man.

[Téuntjûh]

Loads of people are still rolling 25 man and enjoying it.
Don't see my 25 man guild stopping soon.
Well go on for some xpansions

[Deleted]

25 mans aren't diminishing greatly on large realms, only dying realms.

This has always happened, long before 10 man raids even existed (kara and za excluded of course). You've just never been on a dying realm before.

It's not blizzards equalizing of 10 and 25, it's just a symptom of a dying realm. You can blame them for losing so many western subs sure, but I don't think there's much point reminding them of the obvious.

[Mudkiper]

There are.... two 25 man guilds on my realm! One of which is 1/7hc, the other is mine at 6/7hc.

[Minto44]

Not much you can do about it. "Looking for another MMO" hah, if you like PvE, WoW is the only option. The "raids" in other MMO's are so far behind WoW that it isn't even funny. PvP is another thing. And if you like grinding and item hunting there are several options, but raids? No.

[MagicSN]

Not much you can do about it. "Looking for another MMO" hah, if you like PvE, WoW is the only option. The "raids" in other MMO's are so far behind WoW that it isn't even funny. PvP is another thing. And if you like grinding and item hunting there are several options, but raids? No.

Actually I think few MMOs these days HAVE something like a 25-man. In LOTRO for example, where the base size (which is in WoW "five") is "six", they originally introduced a 24-man (6x4) raid and shortly after a 12-man-raid (6x2). The 24-man soon became a shadow of the 12-man (okay, the 12-man was definitely the funner instance!). After that they never introduced a 24-man again, and said they don't plan to for the future, currently. If I remember right DDO had 10-man's (long time ago since I played this, and actually I was not yet on raid-level with my character).

I think in other MMOs (could be wrong) it is the same like in those two, the base raid size being "roughly around 10, plus/minus some".

The issue is I think MMOs are now much more also for casual players who do not want to spend all their freetime in a online game. And for such people it is much easier to raid in PUG raids/very loose alliances without strict schedules. And it is easier to organize something like this in the smaller size (actually I think this is more "heavy" in other MMOs
than WoW, though I admit my only outside-WoW experiences are LOTRO and DDO).

[Minto44]

Actually I think few MMOs these days HAVE something like a 25-man. In LOTRO for example, where the base size (which is in WoW "five") is "six", they originally introduced a 24-man (6x4) raid and shortly after a 12-man-raid (6x2). The 24-man soon became a shadow of the 12-man (okay, the 12-man was definitely the funner instance!). After that they never introduced a 24-man again, and said they don't plan to for the future, currently. If I remember right DDO had 10-man's (long time ago since I played this, and actually I was not yet on raid-level with my character).

I think in other MMOs (could be wrong) it is the same like in those two, the base raid size being "roughly around 10, plus/minus some".

The issue is I think MMOs are now much more also for casual players who do not want to spend all their freetime in a online game. And for such people it is much easier to raid in PUG raids/very loose alliances without strict schedules. And it is easier to organize something like this in the smaller size (actually I think this is more "heavy" in other MMOs
than WoW, though I admit my only outside-WoW experiences are LOTRO and DDO).

I wasn't talking about only raid size. Mechanics are horribly outdated, compare a boss fight in WoW to anything else and it'll fall awfully short to WoW. I havn't played LOTRO, but I have played:

RIFT (On the Bloodiron PvP server I got server first on all tier 1 instances and half the tier 2 instances, as well as the 10 man raids/rifts)
Warhammer
Aion
Just about all Nexon games
Just about all Aeria games
EvE online
DDO
Everquest 2 (not 1 though)
All the Phantasy Star Online games (the best MMO's outside of WoW if you ask me since item hunting is actually fun. I still play Phantasy Star Universe on the japanese servers)
Ragnarok online
Guild Wars

To name a few popular ones. Nothing compares to raiding in WoW, which is the only reason I still play WoW. When another game manages to create raids even 80% as good as WoW's raids I will probably quit. It's not that other games do not have raids. They just can't compare in difficulty and execution.

[Maldobar]

Always keep your gold around 50k and don't make too many alts. This will ensure that you do not get rooted to one server.

But, like you, if 25mans do go away--I would quit first before joining a 10man lamefest.

[Magisleeper]

Right now 10 man raids are tuned low enough where you dont -require- any certain classes to kill most bosses on normal or HM. This is different in 25man as class stacking is almost an absolute with alot of HM bosses and due to a shared lockout and shared gear most people prefer to just go to a 10 man to raid now than 25s, and alot of classes are left out in the cold as far as 25m progression especially in HM.

Before shared lockout and shared gear 25man was something to shoot for and a goal because if you wanted the best loot, best achievments/fancy mounts/titles for bragging right you needed to raid 25. Now that its shared its no suprise people gravitate towards the easier option, which is 10man.

Besides removing the encentive for 25 man raiding except for person preference, they essentially signed their death warrant by giving an easier alternative with the same rewards. Used to be if you were in a 25 and having trouble you could send some 'scouting parties' into the 10man, get the mechanics down, learn the tricks and come back to the next raid with that knowledge. Now you cant do that without sacraficing a raid week by killing all the 10man versions.

[Stevoman]

OP has five 25m guilds on his realm? Mine has two, and we are one of them. >_>

Makes recruitment both painful and more selective. Our player base tends to be of higher overall quality because the people applying for us specifically want 25m over 10m and are prepared to rise to the challenge and put in the wipes, but the overall number of applicants is low because 10m has gotten so popular on this realm. "One step up from a trade channel PUG" 7/7reg 10m guilds are a dime a dozen, just like 1/13H 10m guilds were last tier. There is no denying that, as far as reg modes go, 10m is easier overall, and most of this game's playerbase just wants to farm reg mode and get easy gear. Puts 25m guilds in a difficult position when recruiting.

It tends to separate those who want to progress from those who just want easy gear. We are far from top-100 and progress a bit slower than top guilds, but typically finish at least half of most heroic encounters (11/12H T10, 8/13H T11), so still head and shoulders above the rest of the guilds on our realm.

[Deleted]

It seems to be the same in alot of places, on ER-EU there are only a handful 25 man team also, i am glad the team i found is a great one, but recruitment for new players is so hard for 25 man since everyone has a 10 man team or 2.

Thankfully we even had someone move over from another server and slowly people are trickling in so we can keep going.

[Maneo]

Yeah I think I am just going to let my subscription expire.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic .. please get here soon.

[Deleted]

Quite a few 25's still on my server, i think 4/5 of the top guilds are all 25's and all with some heroic bosses down.
As long as the top guilds raid 25's, there will always be others who want to do likewise (at least i hope so).

But i feel your pain at being "trapped" on the realm you are on, with lots of 85's and the likes swapping servers isn't as easy or as simple as a solution .