Premier League 2011/2012

[Jackmoves]

Comparing leagues is very very difficult, and saying things like put barca or real in the PL they still do good is something that can't be realistically compared. For example in England most major clubs compete in 4 competitions. That means 3 games in 7-8 days most of the time, depending on how high you aim. EPL allows for more aggressive play, while in Spain its more technical.

As for who can beat Barca in 2 games, well Arsenal was pretty close last year, until the ref decided to take mater into his own hands .

Agreed, but I havn't seen an english team put real pressure on Barcelona or Real for that matter in quite a long time, last time I really thought they would lose was the final back in Paris, but then Henrik Larsson turned it around.

To be honest, only an arsenal fan could blame the ref in that match serie, the ref in the away game for arsenal was pretty shakey, Barcelona had a penalty in that game that wasn't given but was quite clearly a penalty for anyone who saw the replay, then there was the sending off of RvP, he had been forgiven two textbook yellow cards prior to it, he had it coming, and could(should?) have been sent of earlier then when he was. Getting sent off for taking a shot after the whistle is silly in such a game but as I said, he shouldn't even be on the pitch at that point since he had done things that warranted a red card earlier in the game, if I remember correctly there should have been a 2nd red card in the game as well, the arsenal defender that caused the penalty.

Edit: and had Arsenal gone through, it would have been a real shame, they had what 1 shot at goal at nou camp (which didnt even had to be saved since it went wide)? 30% ball possession and generally created zero threat or chances, they were massively outplayed.

[Larath]

People still thinking RVP is even close to Messi LOL..

The only thing RVP has going for him this season is his goals and even then Messi as scored 20+ more, anybody who has ever watched a game of football in their life can see Messi's all round play is 100+ better than RVP no matter where he plays, seriously some people need to learn a thing or 2 about football if you think RVP is even close to him.

Only person you can compare to Messi is Ronaldo and even then he's a little behind him, Messi's scored 100+ goals in less than 2 seasons, won a CL and La Liga trophy,won the Ballon d'Or and Fifa world player of the year what 3 years in a row?

He's scored over 50 goals so far this season and Xavi/Iniests have been nowhere near influential as usual, Infact there getting raped in La Liga yet Messi is the one who shines every single week if it wasn't for him they wouldn't be 10 points from top they'd be about 20.

There's loads of world class players in the same bracket IMO (RvP,Rooney,Sneijder,Iniesta,Xavi,Silva etc) there top players but still 1 bracket behind Messi and Ronaldo, you get a player Like Messi once in a hundred years when he retires he would of broken every record on the planet.

You mean like the Ballon d'Or he won when sneijder had taken the dutch team to a final in the world cup and won CL, league and the italian cup with Inter and generally been a much better player then messi said year? Sneijder not winning that one just put a bad reflection on the award.

[mirodin]

Edit: and had Arsenal gone through, it would have been a real shame, they had what 1 shot at goal at nou camp (which didnt even had to be saved since it went wide)? 30% ball possession and generally created zero threat or chances, they were massively outplayed.

Oh i agree with this, they played piss pour, Bendtner had the only chance and ofc the great player that he is managed to miss the goal. But in no way did RVP deserve to be sent-off in that game. I expected Barca to win after Cesc made that legendary backheel in the first half.

[Northern Goblin]

You mean like the Ballon d'Or he won when sneijder had taken the dutch team to a final in the world cup and won CL, league and the italian cup with Inter and generally been a much better player then messi said year? Sneijder not winning that one just put a bad reflection on the award.

This. I don't deny that Messi is an amazing player, but even still he gets overrated because people seem to think he's got the feet of Jesus himself. He's part of an absolutely amazing team that is easily one of the greatest squads of all time.

If he was as great a player as people say, he'd have carried Argentina further in the World Cup, and not looked a disappointing mess.

[Jackmoves]

Wasn't Robben the one that made the Dutch team work, they played like shit until he got back from his injury if I remember correctly. Their games in the group stage was really poor, not trying to bash on Sneijder, but as far as I remember it wasn't until Robben started to play that the dutch started to look dangerous.

[Deleted]

This. I don't deny that Messi is an amazing player, but even still he gets overrated because people seem to think he's got the feet of Jesus himself. He's part of an absolutely amazing team that is easily one of the greatest squads of all time.

If he was as great a player as people say, he'd have carried Argentina further in the World Cup, and not looked a disappointing mess.

Argentina was an embarrassment at the 2010 world cup because of Maradona he didn't have a clue what he was doing, Id bet my house that if he was managing Spain they wouldn't have won it either.

If everybody was judged on World Cup performances then Klose from Germany would be known as one of the greatest players to have ever lived with the goal record he has and you'd think Rooney (and most of the England team) was a non-league player.

It blows my mind that people think he's overated when he's scored over 100 goals in 2 seasons, even if he wouldn't have scored a single goal his all round play is clearly world class he can do anything, I also find it weird Fengore how you keep claiming he needs Xavi and Iniesta around him when he scored a 30 yard cracker against us in the CL final just a few months back.

You just need to compare the stats of the 2 players and look at the quality of goals over the past 5 years there's only 1 clear winner.

Im done on the whole Messi vs RVP (makes me lol that he's even being mentioned in the same breath tbh) debate now anyway for me Messi is on another planet to anybody else and the greatest player iv ever seen, everybody has their own opinion though and I respect (Yet pity) your view.

[Geomatician]

Not really taking sides on the argument, as it's not a highly interesting one for me.. BUT!

The problem with messi (and any non spanish player at Barcelona) is that Barcelona isn't just about the first team, or the Barcelona 'b' team. It's about the entire system. The system Cryuff brought to the club. Players come at a very young age, live with their team mates, eat with their team mates, go to school with their team mates. i.e. live, breathe and eat Barcelona. Messi went to Barcelona at 14 (correct me if I'm wrong). He went through this system. He developed with fabregas (although not for long), iniesta, xavi, et al playing the barcelona way.*

I can only imagine what that development can do for a player but I would say that if you're a player from a country outside of Spain it may have a negative impact on the ability to perform for country as you've been brought up in this way from a young age half way around the world from your home.

In saying this Messi still has been pretty good for Argentina, 67 appearances 22 goals is pretty good compared to RVP's 25 (4 of which against San Marino in Sept) goals in 62 appearances.

There is hopefully alot of years left for both of them as both in their own way are great to watch. RVP would be even better if he was with a real club ofcourse and not Woolwich!

---------- Post added 2012-03-13 at 05:37 PM ----------

Wasn't Robben the one that made the Dutch team work, they played like shit until he got back from his injury if I remember correctly. Their games in the group stage was really poor, not trying to bash on Sneijder, but as far as I remember it wasn't until Robben started to play that the dutch started to look dangerous.

It was John De Jong with his Kung Fu that made the dutch team work!

[JustaBigBird]

Ronaldo > Messi, Ronaldo is the greatest ever. Performed for club, performed for country and dominated in his prime like a hat-trick against a strong M Utd team at home. End of conversation.

[Northern Goblin]

Scouse Derby tonight.. dunno why but I can actually see Everton stealing this one.

[JustaBigBird]

Scouse Derby tonight.. dunno why but I can actually see Everton stealing this one.

He who shall not be named would have probably exploded on this thread if he could respond to that.

[Deleted]

Ronaldo > Messi, Ronaldo is the greatest ever. Performed for club, performed for country and dominated in his prime like a hat-trick against a strong M Utd team at home. End of conversation.

Shit attitude, and even statistically speaking, not as good.

Messi f'ed up bad in the world cup, but nobody can deny he's an incredible player, who stays on his feet instead of taking an easy dive opportunity. He's also backed up by the best team I've ever seen play, especially Xàvi and Ineista.

As to RvP, I think he's the best player in the English Premier League, and an amazing player.

Rooney needs to sort out his first touch, and I don't know if I'm the only one who notices this, but HE PLAYS TO DEEP. He's always too f'ing deep; I don't know what he's playing at or why Fergusson lets him do it.

Caroll is the same as Torres : they need confidence; or they're pretty bad.

Just a few thoughts before going back to class; take them as you will.

[JustaBigBird]

Shit attitude, and even statistically speaking, not as good.

Messi f'ed up bad in the world cup, but nobody can deny he's an incredible player, who stays on his feet instead of taking an easy dive opportunity. He's also backed up by the best team I've ever seen play, especially Xàvi and Ineista.

As to RvP, I think he's the best player in the English Premier League, and an amazing player.

Rooney needs to sort out his first touch, and I don't know if I'm the only one who notices this, but HE PLAYS TO DEEP. He's always too f'ing deep; I don't know what he's playing at or why Fergusson lets him do it.

Caroll is the same as Torres : they need confidence; or they're pretty bad.

Just a few thoughts before going back to class; take them as you will.

How did he have a shit attitude?

[Northern Goblin]

How did he have a shit attitude?

Might have confused Ronaldos

[Deleted]

Ronaldo > Messi, Ronaldo is the greatest ever. Performed for club, performed for country and dominated in his prime like a hat-trick against a strong M Utd team at home. End of conversation.

I agree Ronaldo was one of the best in recent years but its hard to call him best ever when he was Injured for about 4 years and spent the last 3-4 years of his career at a pretty poor level (Over weight and really under-achieving), same story with Ronaldinho tbh for a few years he looked untouchable then he just lost interest, my favourite player from that era was Zidane he was amazing.

[JustaBigBird]

I agree Ronaldo was one of the best in recent years but its hard to call him best ever when he was Injured for about 4 years and spent the last 3-4 years of his career at a pretty poor level (Over weight and really under-achieving), same story with Ronaldinho tbh for a few years he looked untouchable then he just lost interest, my favourite player from that era was Zidane he was amazing.

That goal vs Leverkusen in the champions league, OH MY!!!!

[Larath]

I agree Ronaldo was one of the best in recent years but its hard to call him best ever when he was Injured for about 4 years and spent the last 3-4 years of his career at a pretty poor level (Over weight and really under-achieving), same story with Ronaldinho tbh for a few years he looked untouchable then he just lost interest, my favourite player from that era was Zidane he was amazing.

I'd put Ronaldinho above messi but thats probably a personal preference cause of the way he carried a barcelona team with worse players then messi have and I enjoyed watching him more.

[Northern Goblin]

There are days when Gerrard plays and you think it's 2001 and England just beat Germany 5-1.

Tonight was one of those days.

[Larath]

There are days when Gerrard plays and you think it's 2001 and England just beat Germany 5-1.

Tonight was one of those days.

Indeed, Gerrard is one of those players that got that little bit of extra, that said I really dislike Spearing and feel for liverpool that have to play him.

[Geomatician]

Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, puskas, di stefano, platini, eusebio, best, zidane, beckenbauer.

None of the current players in world football warrant being on the same list as these guys.

[Northern Goblin]

Didn't Zidane say that Scholes was the best midfielder of his generation (which Zidane played in?)