[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Edge-]

Tera has no barriers for content, except more char slots etc. But as a sub you get shorter cd on dungeons, more dailies etc, which could be considered walls. All of them still include a store with boosts and other stuff as well, which is not on my pros side.

No, those are benefits. Walls remove and/or restrict, befits add and/or expand. You're like, reversing definitions now to try to fit some strange train of thought.

And as stated earlier, FFXI/FFXIV are the only sub based MMO's without a cash shop. Both EVE and WoW have them, so expecting modern MMO's to release without them is kinda silly. Not to mention that as a F2P game,Tera relies on their cash shop to generate revenue...so it's kinda necessary.

[Deleted]

Honestly for a game that's supposed to be bit more cartoony looking and such. Aesthetically it has a lot of brown. Obviously not all of them, but quite a lot of them.
How's that a content wall. You get access to it with no charge.

Still walling you off compared to the paying customer. How is 2 character slots not a wall?

Did everyone really know? It seems more people realize you are moving the goal posts every time you post.

Everyone but you it seems. Not everyone is forcing their opinion on everyone like it was fact like you do.

Not to mention discussing a game you had no intention of playing after the sub model reveal.

[RoninaThorstone]

Just stop it, everyone knows i meant in game.

Yes, everyone knows you like bigger paywalls.

[zito]

How is 2 character slots not a wall?

It would be a wall if there was no character slots.

Everyone but you it seems. Not everyone is forcing their opinion on everyone like it was fact like you do.

You are doing the same...

Not to mention discussing a game you had no intention of playing after the sub model reveal.

picking a fight much?

[Deleted]

It's not a content wall when it gives you the content....



What if the sky was purple? It doesn't matter

Depends on how you define content. If the paying guy can do something 5 times a day, and i can do it 2, im behind a wall he isnt.

It doesnt matter? How the hell would you know? Or can you see into an alternative universe where Tera, SWTOR and the others started as F2P or whaT?

No, those are benefits. Walls remove and/or restrict, befits add and/or expand. You're like, reversing definitions now to try to fit some strange train of thought.

And as stated earlier, FFXI/FFXIV are the only sub based MMO's without a cash shop. Both EVE and WoW have them, so expecting modern MMO's to release without them is kinda silly. Not to mention that as a F2P game,Tera relies on their cash shop to generate revenue...so it's kinda necessary.

If you compare the none paying guy to the paying guy, he is restricted. If you want to see it as a benefit for the paying guy, thats up to you.

It all depends on what is in the shop for the 500th time, since apparently greed has overcome what worked when Wow launched, no shop, nothing more than the sub.

[wombinator04]

P2P games having cash shops now is really pissing me off. So your going to make us pay for the box, a sub, then throw a cash shop in our face as well. Well that sounds great doesn't it. WoW is getting to that now, In full swing.

B2P is the best model I've seen so far that doesn't come off as greedy and ridiculous because, oh look, you only have to pay for the box. GW2 nailed it imo(couple of mistakes here and there, but still great).

[Agent Drew]

Well not really. There were more bugs, less features, less content, etc. Since the transition they have added more content and more features than previously. So..whether you dislike a cash shop has nothing to do with the quality of the game.

And if the game stayed sub it would still have had less bugs and more features a year later. It was a new game, so of course it'll improve over time. Problem was that they released a game worthy of f2p, but with a sub attached. They couldn't get the money they needed and had to switch to f2p to survive. Had they came out of the gate strong with a good mmo that had good endgame it likely would still be sub now.

I don't like their cash shop, I don't like how they seem to be very engaged in developing for it, but even I can't deny what they have done for the game since going F2P. It's in a much better state from a pure content and polish perspective. That's the only objective information one can give. It has more content and is more refined in its design. Whether you or I like that design is irrelevant.

Again, now that it has a payment model people are willing to play that game under than yes. But they wouldn't have to do that if they didn't release a half assed game to begin with.

While I appreciate your willingness to admit that quality isn't dicatated by payment model, you still fell into the same trap.

Trap? That's cute.

You have 'found' that devs can focus on content. How have you found this?

In the fridge. I just came to that conclusion based games I've played. I've never had much fun with f2p games. I just feel like I'm being nickel and dimed. I know some really like f2p, and that's fine. It's just not for me.

It's been analyzed pretty intently and found to be factually inaccurate.

And where did YOU find this? I actually have it from "unquestionable sources" that f2p was first devised by the Taliban. True story

World of Warcraft prior to Mists did an awful job at providing content with the overwhelmingly largest subscription revenue.

Not sure where these "facts" are coming from but while there has certainly been downtime between patches for wow that lasted well past their time (dragon soul), overall content has been pretty steady, it just tends to come in large clumps as oppose to many small patches. Plus, I can get it all in game. Except for the occasional mount or pet, but again there's exceptions to every rule here.

Meanwhile, F2P games have had several expansions, system revamps, and regular content updates. GW2 releases regular updates without even a subscription.

And how good are they? Let me ask you? If any of those games killed their cash shops and went sub, would you still play them? I hear people say how there are so many f2p games out there that are good, but I doubt they'd maintain that stance if they suddenly had to sub, even if all the cash shop items became available in game.

It's understandable to think a cash shop somehow gets in the way of development, especially when there are a few bad apples, but it's just not the reality of the situation. Especially since there are different teams to work on those things. As my buddy bard says, the intern doing recolors in mspaint aren't going to be designing your raids.

Again, I'm not doubting that some f2p games actually get it right for the most part, I just don't see any of interest to me, nor do I trust the payment model overall. Didn't we agree that payment model =/= game quality? It's a two way street. While sub won't guarantee quality, there's also no guarantee that f2p/b2p is a better option for all mmo's. I simply prefer sub.

A subscription doesn't guarantee you anything other than access and it certainly hasn't proven its worth over time.

Little in life is guaranteed. Just cuz you get burned in one game doesn't mean you have to swear off all others like it.

Rift is probably the only subscription game to earn it with content production. That's not a lot of evidence for your opinion, especially since they also went F2P now.

I'll give you evidence for MY opinion when you justify your favorite flavor of ice cream to me. FACTS DAMMIT!

It would be nice if we lived in a world where we knew our subscription money would guarantee quality and quantity of content, but it's just not true in any line of business.

Would also be nice if we lived in a world where everything is guaranteed, but that's life. I can't guarantee that I won't get attacked by a polar bear wielding a hammer made out of elephant tusks as I leave my home, but a little faith here and there doesn't hurt. That's why I sub on a monthly basis only. The ones I really shake my head at are the people who get six months to a year at once for a brand new mmo at launch, then freak out when they wasted all that money.

[RoninaThorstone]

Depends on how you define content. If the paying guy can do something 5 times a day, and i can do it 2, im behind a wall he isnt.

It doesnt matter? How the hell would you know? Or can you see into an alternative universe where Tera, SWTOR and the others started as F2P or whaT?



If you compare the none paying guy to the paying guy, he is restricted. If you want to see it as a benefit for the paying guy, thats up to you.

It all depends on what is in the shop for the 500th time, since apparently greed has overcome what worked when Wow launched, no shop, nothing more than the sub.

Restriction =/= a wall.

A wall is something your can't get around like a 60 dollar box price or a subscription fee to log in. A restriction is like only having 5 bags when you could have 8. You can deal with having only 5 slots, you can work around it. You can't log into WoW without a subscription.

[zito]

Depends on how you define content. If the paying guy can do something 5 times a day, and i can do it 2, im behind a wall he isnt.

It's not a wall when you have access to it. Period. You can't change that fact no matter how you spin it. You are complaining about someone getting more benefits then you because they payed to do that, but that's not a wall.

It doesnt matter? How the hell would you know? Or can you see into an alternative universe where Tera, SWTOR and the others started as F2P or whaT?

What IF questions have not mattered or anything, it's pointless worrying. That was my point, ignore it more kthx.

[RoninaThorstone]

And if the game stayed sub it would still have had less bugs and more features a year later.

Umm... Yeah. How did that work out for those who didn't switch to F2P? Like warhammer or tabularasa? Are they still getting features, debugging, ect?

[Deleted]

It would be a wall if there was no character slots.



You are doing the same...



picking a fight much?

Still a wall, its just after 2 char slots instead of 0.

Im not in the one saying what i say doesnt hold any truth because its just personal opinions, then come back to do the same thing myself, that is just double standards.

Did he need you to talk for him?

Its lovely when the F2P mob gang up like you guys do, its beautiful. Too bad the game has a sub, wheather you like it or not.

[RoninaThorstone]

Still a wall, its just after 2 char slots instead of 0. Too bad the game has a sub, wheather you like it or not.

It's not a wall. Your definition of 'wall' is incorrect.

And all things it due time. After Wildstar has milked the unsuspecting subscribers, they will switch like everyone else. Maybe not in a year, but probably within 2 years.

[Edge-]

If you compare the none paying guy to the paying guy, he is restricted. If you want to see it as a benefit for the paying guy, thats up to you.

It all depends on what is in the shop for the 500th time, since apparently greed has overcome what worked when Wow launched, no shop, nothing more than the sub.

The leaps on logic you are making to try to justify your point of view are extremely impressive.

There's positive bonuses, and negative restrictions. If there is a positive bonus for doing something like paying a subscription, that's in no way a negative restriction for the free player. The base game is the free experience, with the subscriber benefits being a bonus. You don't see the guy who got a bonus/raise because he worked his ass of and say, "I'm being paid less now!", because what you're getting paid hasn't changed, it's exactly the same.

SWTOR has a negative restriction model for their free players. They are heavily restricted, and they need to subscribe to lift those restrictions. That's what you're thinking of.

And companies want to make money...that's kinda what they do. Putting in an optional cash shop like WoW is doing in no way negatively impacts the existing gameplay and only provides optional purchases for those that want them.

What worked in 2004 isn't necessarily going to work in 2013. Times change. Shocking, I know.

- - - Updated - - -

P2P games having cash shops now is really pissing me off. So your going to make us pay for the box, a sub, then throw a cash shop in our face as well. Well that sounds great doesn't it. WoW is getting to that now, In full swing.

What constitutes, "throwing a cash shop in your face"? The existence of a cash shop button in the UI?

[zito]

Still a wall, its just after 2 char slots instead of 0.

It's not a wall, look whos trying to push their opinion of a wall on someone else.

Im not in the one saying what i say doesnt hold any truth because its just personal opinions, then come back to do the same thing myself, that is just double standards.

Yes, yes you are...

Did he need you to talk for him?

I'm not talking for him. Don't put words in peoples mouths and start a fight.

Its lovely when the F2P mob gang up like you guys do, its beautiful. Too bad the game has a sub, wheather you like it or not.

I have no problem with a sub if it actually guarantees something but it doesn't, it hasn't in any game for almost a decade unless were talking cosmetic subs like TERA and Rift, but paywall subs like WoW? No.

[Deleted]

Restriction =/= a wall.

A wall is something your can't get around like a 60 dollar box price or a subscription fee to log in. A restriction is like only having 5 bags when you could have 8. You can deal with having only 5 slots, you can work around it. You can't log into WoW without a subscription.

Just because you can deal with it doesnt mean everyone else can. If someone plays 20 hours a day, farming for most of it, those 5 slots wont be enough.

And yes, being restricted is the same thing as being walled off, just a different kind of wall, maybe a more good looking one, its still there though.

[Holtzmann]

Guys, please... can't this discussion be moved to its own thread? It's gone way beyond Wildstar at this point. I know there isn't much about the game to discuss given the NDA, but still. :/

[Edge-]

Just because you can deal with it doesnt mean everyone else can. If someone plays 20 hours a day, farming for most of it, those 5 slots wont be enough.

Well then, good thing character slots are pretty cheap and there are only 3 additional slots per server! Picking those up will be cheaper than subscribing for 3-4 months.

[zito]

being restricted is the same thing as being walled off

If it was the same thing we wouldn't have 2 words for it in the same world.

It's not the same thing... no matter how you spin it.

[Elim Garak]

Well then, good thing character slots are pretty cheap and there are only 3 additional slots per server! Picking those up will be cheaper than subscribing for 3-4 months.

As if character slots is the only paywall in f2p games.
As if character slots is the only thing you get for a sub.

[RoninaThorstone]

And yes, being restricted is the same thing as being walled off, just a different kind of wall, maybe a more good looking one, its still there though.

Um... No, unless you are able to walk through walls, it's not the same as a wall.

That's like saying content is gated unless you can deal with the bosses being harder. That's not what gated content is. Gated content is when you can't progress because you literally can not go into the bosses room until next week when they make it available.