[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Remilia]

Yes, only one does it with one's time and the other with one's credit card.

No, both does it with their time.
Not sure how you can comment without knowing how the game works.

[zito]

Yes, only one does it with one's time and the other with one's credit card.

Your point being what? You jump topics like a drug addict popping pills.

[RoninaThorstone]

And your point being?

It's pretty much a cardinal sin (and I think you know that... or at least hope you do)

Again, something that STOPS you from playing is a 'wall', 'barrier', 'shield', 'levee', ect.
Something that makes it difficult to play is a 'restriction', 'encumberment', 'limitation', ect.

In terms of paywalls, subscription games have the most, then B2P has less, then F2P has the least.
In terms of restrictions, F2P games have the most, then B2P has less, then subscription has the least.

edit: They are different because one is annoying to play with and the other means you can't play at all.

[Holtzmann]

Wildstars buisness model is not part of wildstar?

This conversation hasn't been about Wildstar's business model for a long time.

Besides, can anyone point me to the big book of Internet laws that say F2P games must ALWAYS have so and so, and that P2P games must ALWAYS have this and that? Because comparing games is pointless. Even within P2P or F2P models themselves you have variations. A game's business model does what its developers/publishers want it to do. There is nothing keeping a new game from doing things differently, except the restriction that F2P games must have some sort of microtransaction system to keep it afloat.

[Elim Garak]

No, both does it with their time.
Not sure how you can comment without knowing how the game works.

TERA's in-game cash shop is available at their site. One doesn't require even to log into the game to see what one can buy in there. Lots of time savers aka XP boosts, Rep boosts, etc. Loot in lock-boxes, etc.

You were saying?

[Viscoe]

Guys, please... can't this discussion be moved to its own thread? It's gone way beyond Wildstar at this point. I know there isn't much about the game to discuss given the NDA, but still. :/

I'm with you here.

I'm popping into the thread once a day and skimming to see if this whole fight is over. Too bad the raging debate about F2P vs B2P vs P2P is like, the most activity this thread has seen in a while.

I can't believe the DevSpeak got like one tenth of the attention that this argument got. And it's hardly about W* anymore. I remember we were discussing W*'s questing and we started getting into other games (namely GW2) and the conversation got redirected because it wasn't about W* anymore. But... the same thing is happening now. The merits of the various systems has NOTHING TO DO with Wildstar. Wildstar is a sub with a possible F2P future and a possible cash shop coming. That's... kind of all there is to say about it. Arguing about how much fun you have in Tera because you can log in and do everything without paying isn't Wildstar. :/

[Druidjezus]

Want to buy those statistics.

I don't have any statistics, however I worked for an MMO for a while that did the flip. Ultimately there were people who paid nothing at all to play, but the majority who stuck around spent, on average, 40% more per month than they would have for a subscription to buy boosts. Now, that was a very different game from most of those discussed here and it's extremely grindy (no level cap) and PvP based, and a small population so the competition between players was VERY tense and people did whatever they good to get an edge.

Not saying that would carry over to other games. For example, after Lineage 2 went F2P I played it for several months without spending a dime. However, logic tells us that if a game is making more as a F2P game than a P2P game, then people are paying enough for the "premium" stuff, whatever that is, to offset the entire sum of all subscription dollars when the game was P2P. So, SOME people are paying for it. Obviously a larger player base will help make it so they need less money per player, but while it may be small, additional players in an MMO do have a marginal cost, so they are probably making at least close to as much as a subscription (on average) off of each player.

If someone is playing a F2P MMO and not paying ANYTHING for it, they're not the typical player, and an exception and not the rule. The F2P games are giving away the crack and selling the pipes, lighters and dark alleys; they're not making a killing off of imaginary players.

[Remilia]

TERA's in-game cash shop is available at their site. One doesn't require even to log into the game to see what one can buy in there. Lots of time savers aka XP boosts, Rep boosts, etc. Loot in lock-boxes, etc.

You were saying?

XP boosts don't do shit, same with rep boosts. You have to 'farm' for both. You need to farm for lock boxes in order to get the useless things in there that you farm also.

[Elim Garak]

It's pretty much a cardinal sin (and I think you know that... or at least hope you do)

Again, something that STOPS you from playing is a 'wall', 'barrier', 'shield', 'levee', ect.
Something that makes it difficult to play is a 'restriction', 'encumberment', 'limitation', ect.

In terms of paywalls, subscription games have the most, then B2P has less, then F2P has the least.
In terms of restrictions, F2P games have the most, then B2P has less, then subscription has the least.

edit: They are different because one is annoying to play with and the other means you can't play at all.

You are confusing a wall with The Great Chinese Wall. Obviously. Wall doesn't STOPS you from playing. It only stops you from playing the WAY YOU WANT.
You can dig under the wall - i.e. grind.
Or walk sideways - play differently. I'm yet to see a game with such a wall that stops you from playing completely.
Definition of a wall doesn't include anything about its width, height and length. Right?

- - - Updated - - -

XP boosts don't do shit, same with rep boosts. You have to 'farm' for both. You need to farm for lock boxes in order to get the useless things in there that you farm also.

XP boosts increase XP gains by 100%. Nothing you say? Twice less time spent grinding mobs.
Lock boxes can be bought. Less time grinding them.
Everything you grind can be gained QUICKER with a credit card.

You just don't want to see it.

[Deleted]

Want to buy those statistics.

Those statistics arent really that hard to find. try seaching on superdataresearch on google you should get all the statistic you want.
Cant link the site myself since i dont have enough posts=S

[Agent Drew]

Since Rift pumped out twice the content over it's chocolate period and put out an expansion that felt like two northrends stuffed together and THAT went F2P with a devoted fan base... I can't see many people 'earning it' if that doesn't cut it.

I wanna say I hit about level 5 on rift before stopped playing. I don't know but it felt just so bland, nothing much setting it apart in either gameplay or aesthetic. So with rift I wonder mostly what took it so long.

[RoninaThorstone]

You are confusing a wall with The Great Chinese Wall. Obviously. Wall doesn't STOPS you from playing. It only stops you from playing the WAY YOU WANT.
You can dig under the wall - i.e. grind.
Or walk sideways - play differently. I'm yet to see a game with such a wall that stops you from playing completely.
Definition of a wall doesn't include anything about its width, height and length. Right?

And you are confusing a physical wall with a figurative wall.

Can I log into my account and play my 10 level 85 characters in WoW without paying 10 to 15 dollars (depending on how many months I purchase)? No. I am blocked by a paywall entirely.

[Remilia]

XP boosts increase XP gains by 100%. Nothing you say? Twice less time spent grinding mobs.
Lock boxes can be bought. Less time grinding them.
Everything you grind can be gained QUICKER with a credit card.

You just don't want to see it.

Again, XP boosts walls you how? You're spending your time to do stuff. It's not like you push one button and you're max.
You mean the appearance loot boxes? All strongboxes must be farmed.

[Elim Garak]

And you are confusing a physical wall with a figurative wall.

Not at all. Figurative walls retain every quality of real walls but their physicality.
You are just really grasping at straws here.

Can I log into my account and play my 10 level 85 characters in WoW without paying 10 to 15 dollars (depending on how many months I purchase)? No. I am blocked by a paywall entirely.

That is not an in-game paywall that we discuss in here. What's next? The need to buy a box is a paywall too? It is in technicality - but it's not what we discuss here. Right? So why are you bringing them up?

If you are gonna insist on it - we are done here.

Again, XP boosts walls you how? You're spending your time to do stuff. It's not like you push one button and you're max.
You mean the appearance loot boxes? All strongboxes must be farmed.

Don't try to wall your way out of this argument which isn't about walls. But if you are interested - GRIND walls you. XP boost is the payment. Duh.
And no I mean loot boxes that contain enchants.
Plus strongboxes need a key to open, though you have to grind the boxes - which is faster with enchants and shit - you don't need to grind the keys. You can just buy them - I'm pretty sure - a smart fella can convert his real money into game money and buy strongboxes with game money from grinders - no? Even if no - still no need to grind the keys. What's the point of strongboxes without the keys? None whatsoever.

I don't understand why do you still argue. It's pretty obvious - the paying players get it easier in f2p games.

[Deleted]

lvl 20 dungeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSGqXenYud8

[Angarin]

lvl 20 dungeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSGqXenYud8

Looks awesome, even though I couldn't understand half of what he was saying.

[RoninaThorstone]

That is not an in-game paywall that we discuss in here. What's next? The need to buy a box is a paywall too? It is in technicality - but it's not what we discuss here. Right? So why are you bringing them up?

???

That's exactly what everyone is talking about. That is what the pay wall in a B2P game IS. THAT IS WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PAYMENT MODELS AND PAYWALLS.

[Remilia]

Don't try to wall your way out of this argument which isn't about walls. But if you are interested - GRIND walls you. XP boost is the payment. Duh.

Wat

I don't understand why do you still argue. It's pretty obvious - the paying players get it easier in f2p games.

Aside from you not understanding the game concepts and mechanics (hint, there's more to enchanting than that), I was saying you both need to take time to farm which you blatantly ignored.

[Kelimbror]

I'm with you here.

I'm popping into the thread once a day and skimming to see if this whole fight is over. Too bad the raging debate about F2P vs B2P vs P2P is like, the most activity this thread has seen in a while.

To be very, very fair...this is all from Wildstar's recent decision. Everyone were instructed time and time again to not discuss it until it is announced. We have now have half a year's debating to catch up on. This is decidedly the reaction that Wildstar gets for choosing such an archaic and blatantly stupid payment model.

While it doesn't sound like it's talking about Wildstar, it's all relevant. Everyone in here is here because they either a) Are interested in Wildstar or B) Like to troll everywhere. We can't discuss B, so let's assume it's all A. Everyone is here because they are interested in Wildstar.

CBT is over for now
Game is being redesigned more or less
Release has been pushed back a year

Only thing left to discuss is why it's the most idiotic decision Carbine could have made to have this payment model. Maybe they will stumble in here and see this microcosm, look at the other microcosms having similar discussions, and realize they pissed a lot of people off with a money grubbing, poorly implemented model.

[RoninaThorstone]

To be very, very fair...this is all from Wildstar's recent decision. Everyone were instructed time and time again to not discuss it until it is announced. We have now have half a year's debating to catch up on. This is decidedly the reaction that Wildstar gets for choosing such an archaic and blatantly stupid payment model.

While it doesn't sound like it's talking about Wildstar, it's all relevant. Everyone in here is here because they either a) Are interested in Wildstar or B) Like to troll everywhere. We can't discuss B, so let's assume it's all A. Everyone is here because they are interested in Wildstar.

CBT is over for now
Game is being redesigned more or less
Release has been pushed back a year

Only thing left to discuss is why it's the most idiotic decision Carbine could have made to have this payment model. Maybe they will stumble in here and see this microcosm, look at the other microcosms having similar discussions, and realize they pissed a lot of people off with a money grubbing, poorly implemented model.

Which is a shame. I finally have a better work schedule and it just closed.

Luckily, I will have plenty of time to max out the new frames in firefall.