[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Keren]

Hm, call me negative, but somehow it sounds like the none announced classes are not unique and fun enough in their playstyle to show gameplay footage... :/

[Lumocolor]

Isn't there some unwritten MMOC rule around here that you don't go in another games thread and keep posting about how much the game play sucks, the chosen art style is bad, how many bugs the beta has, how much their payment plan sucks compared to GW2 and that you won't be playing it over and over again??

Not going to name names, but dang if you arent interested in the game please stop coming in to pad your post count and filling the thread with troll and useless extra posts.

I don't like league of legends but i don't spend 2hrs a day in their thread telling them why i think it's bad and arguing with the people that like it.

[athlonmax]

Isn't there some unwritten MMOC rule around here that you don't go in another games thread and keep posting about how much the game play sucks, the chosen art style is bad, how many bugs the beta has, how much their payment plan sucks compared to GW2 and that you won't be playing it over and over again??

Not going to name names, but dang if you arent interested in the game please stop coming in to pad your post count and filling the thread with troll and useless extra posts.

I don't like league of legends but i don't spend 2hrs a day in their thread telling them why i think it's bad and arguing with the people that like it.

I think it's the biz model that struck some of them the most. They were hoping that this game is at least B2P ala GW2. Once Carbine announced the sub model, i saw many comments on the game play/questing/animation being bad from the last beta test(CBT2/CBT3) is not worth for this game to be a sub model.
Also something about being a new IP MMO,it shouldn't be a P2P model because it won't attract many people to pay for it.

I don't know man,maybe they were hoping too much for this game going to be a B2P model.

[l33t]

Guys, please, stop. I totally love how you're trying to make a very mediocre GW2 game a saviour of the genre. It is a very niche game, and the only fact that it is not sub based doesn't mean that sub based games are invalid choice. Remember, not a pay method destroyed Swtor, but the lazyness of devs who weren't creating enough content.
If Wildstar will be at least 60% that good as they tell, I'd be very willing to pay sub. If it won't be good, I won't play it, no matter what's the pay system.
Also, I'd love them to give much more info on the game, not only on housing, but on other aspects too. Telling the same stuff again and again quickly becomes old.

[Vespian]

Guys, please, stop. I totally love how you're trying to make a very mediocre GW2 game a saviour of the genre. It is a very niche game, and the only fact that it is not sub based doesn't mean that sub based games are invalid choice. Remember, not a pay method destroyed Swtor, but the lazyness of devs who weren't creating enough content.
If Wildstar will be at least 60% that good as they tell, I'd be very willing to pay sub. If it won't be good, I won't play it, no matter what's the pay system.
Also, I'd love them to give much more info on the game, not only on housing, but on other aspects too. Telling the same stuff again and again quickly becomes old.

Which 60%? 60% of what they say does not equal 60% of the content. GW2 is mediocre at best. I do agree with that, but is that a reason to assume that F2P is not a valid strategy? In the current market, with an overflow of MMO's, subs might not be what people are looking for currently and that can damage the game, regardless of how many of the promises actually make it into the release.

[Deleted]

they should probably have the new classes ready for the next beta so they can properly test them.

[Kelimbror]

Guys, please, stop. I totally love how you're trying to make a very mediocre GW2 game a saviour of the genre

No one is doing this.

It is a very niche game

This is completely untrue.

I think it's the biz model that struck some of them the most. They were hoping that this game is at least B2P ala GW2. Once Carbine announced the sub model, i saw many comments on the game play/questing/animation being bad from the last beta test(CBT2/CBT3) is not worth for this game to be a sub model.

Once people don't care to have hope for the game (not saying this is me) they often get pretty liberal with criticism that was held back for various reasons...NDA included. At the time I'm sure they were thinking in their head that 'this is just beta and it will improve' as any rational beta player would think. But when you hear such a boldly illogical announcement as the game will have a box cost and a subscription, the immediate take away is that the developers are greedy or cocky, but 100% feel the direction of their game is good enough for a subscription.

This puts the criticism scale into the highest possible category there can be and suddenly the game is found wanting. You don't go to Walmart, buy a $5 T-shirt and then complain about how awful it looks, the material is rubbish, and then have it tear in a year and then complain to have your money back. However, you do rave about how great it turned out to be and awesome it is you only spent $5 for it.

This is what is happening with Wildstar. It could have used it's unique aesthetic, semi interesting design, etc to make the best B2P game we've seen yet. Most of its flaws could be overlooked because you were getting a chance to see some of the truly marvelous stuff at a great cost. What happened instead is Wildstar basically saying that they are going to sell their Walmart T-Shirt for $100.

Also something about being a new IP MMO,it shouldn't be a P2P model because it won't attract many people to pay for it.

As people who want every MMO to do well, you are correct. It's like watching your dog eat its own poop.

I don't know man,maybe they were hoping too much for this game going to be a B2P model.

No, it was assuming that greedy companies have learned to not pigeonhole their developers into the 'trying to tackle wow' cliche. More than anything, that's what the sub model means. Instead of learning that all of these games do better without subscription, instead of seeing WoW losing subs and thinking there's a chance the model is starting to be a problem, all they see is a weaker target than it was 4 years ago and they rush like a bull straight to a red cape that will be quickly snatched away from them.

Leaving them to stare at a half emtpy stadium of people laughing at them.

[RoninaThorstone]

Guys, please, stop. I totally love how you're trying to make a very mediocre GW2 game a saviour of the genre. It is a very niche game, and the only fact that it is not sub based doesn't mean that sub based games are invalid choice. Remember, not a pay method destroyed Swtor, but the lazyness of devs who weren't creating enough content.
If Wildstar will be at least 60% that good as they tell, I'd be very willing to pay sub. If it won't be good, I won't play it, no matter what's the pay system.
Also, I'd love them to give much more info on the game, not only on housing, but on other aspects too. Telling the same stuff again and again quickly becomes old.

GW2 isn't the savior of the genre. Just one of many examples of a non subscription model working. Wildstar needs to make it's investment back quickly, so most people who understand that a monthly pay wall is a less than stellar idea think that B2P is a good compromise. It obviously won't get as many players as F2P, but should they ever have to transition to F2P (pretty much guaranteed now that they are going sub) it would have been easier. The goal is to make sure that new MMOs get as many players as possible.
You use swtor as an example... What about Rift? Trions dev team on rift put out twice the content of WoW over 2 years... the complete opposite of lazy and still went F2P. And they are doing much better now as F2P.
It doesn't matter if you personally will or will not play the game. We have a decade of evidence that payment model MATTERS. Games that were hemorrhaging and on their way to shutting down their servers, that switched to f2p, turned their game around. Most of them are still going today, putting out new content, expansions, ect.
Most of the time I am responding to people asking me "What do you mean the beta was 'meh'?" or "What problems?". That's why it's being repeated. Because people keep asking. You don't have to read it.

You don't seem to get the root cause of why the subscription announcement removed our NDA of silence. Like, two weeks before the subscription announcement, they acknowledged that they have a ton of work to do and that they have to push back their game due in large part to the feed back of beta testers... And then they announce that they are going with... A subscription model? Really? You know your game isn't up to par and you are going to price match WoW? Hmm.

So now we wait till CTB4 to see how much they improved their game.

[Keren]

Some stuff. Don't know if there's a better quality version.

thre is many stuff that wasn't told till now - wow o0

[akaTheDude]

I think WildStar is promising primarily because of the philosophy the devs are following. They're not ashamed about catering to the really hardcore players, even if they are a tiny minority, and they're very much endgame focused.

I hope they stick to their guns on this one. IMO, hardcore players are what make the game. If the game is a "give me, give me, give me" type game.....what is there to work for in the game? Where is the carrot on stick? In an MMO, I need that carrot on the stick or I get really bored...really quick.

[Elenion]

This seems like the most polished WoW clone to date... and yet still a clone. Course, they're adding their own spin to it but it still feels and looks like WoW.

On the other hand, while FFXIV does not bring anything revolutionary to the table, but it feels real fresh. I haven't had a real urge to play MMO since long time ago.

So other than this and that features, etc. what fundamental difference or fresh things are there in this game that makes it stand out? As of now, it looks like a putting in 3 days old pizza back in an oven.

[Kelimbror]

So other than this and that features, etc. what fundamental difference or fresh things are there in this game that makes it stand out?

You realize you just glossed over everything that makes any game unqiue by labeling it 'this and that features' and then expect someone to give you an answer of what is different...right? This is tantamount to a rhetorical question, because no answer will be right to you.

Like it or not:

it's an upgraded combat system. Just about everything is aoe ready, there are dodge abilities, sprints, and double jumps. These all have implications for PvP and PvE.

Paths aren't incredibly unique, but it does give you a way to supplement a large portion of quests to your playstyle. No game does that right now.

Housing is the best of any game, in that you get heavy customization and also functionality not matched by another game.

Lots of other features have been announced, but not spoken about enough to show it's differences. Basically what you see on the surface is a stylized aesthetic and traditional questing. It certainly has a long way to go and as it stands I feel is not a 'WoW clone' but just not distinguished enough from WoW from a design perspective.

If they follow through on all their intentions (which they haven't shown they can do this far) then it will be in a much better state.

- - - Updated - - -

IMO, hardcore players are what make the game.

No offense, but your opinion when compared to factual information doesn't ring true. Casual players make up the vast majority of MMOs, so clearly they 'make the game' as you succinctly stated. I do think catering to both is a good approach, but at some point you have to question why you spend so much money making a feature for 10% of your playerbase and not on the other 90%.

Growing pains that other games are certainly going through right now. Wildstar aims to develop progression and content for both playstyles. This is a good thing.

[Fencers]

Calling Wildstar a WOW clone is rather far fetched. At best, a misuse of the term in vulgar speech. At worst, a fundamental misunderstanding of game design.

Particularly in contrast to FF14, the post is somewhat illogical.

[llDemonll]

Wildstar isn't a WoW clone, anyone who thinks it is needs to play the game

I haven't kept up with this game but when it was first announced I did read a bit about it. My impressions after playing for ~20 minutes at PAX was that overall it is pretty decent so far, granted I didn't get very in depth with it. The starting area was pretty typical, kill this, do this, bring me this, find this place, etc., etc. Combat was pretty good, I like the whole "aim your attacks" thing, BUT PVP sucked. This aim your attacks makes PVP frustrating because it is like two vanilla WoW paladin's fighting each other. You fall asleep before the battle ends. Trying to aim attacks and actually have them hit made the battles take much longer than they should IMO. I got bored a few times and just ran off.

The animations and graphics and all that jazz were quite nice. Very fluid animations for running and skills and the likes, and the graphic style (WoW has the same cartoonized style) I prefer to the games trying to be realistic

[Kelimbror]

Trying to aim attacks and actually have them hit made the battles take much longer than they should IMO. I got bored a few times and just ran off.

I assume most people in competitive PvP will use the autoaim feature. If someone doesn't, they are going to be at an extreme disadvantage.

[Stormkhan]

Imho, Carbine made a pretty big mistake by announcing bits and pieces of the game over such a long time.

This wouldn`t have been the case, but sadly the release date got pushed to 2014, and they couldn`t (and cannot) give away every bit of information otherwise there`d be no element of intrigue left.

Due to this unfortunately situation Wildstar (at least to me) seems like an already launched game, whereby nothing new is being launched; and people have already started comparing it to other mmos that have failed. Which, in fact, is far from the real case; geme luks gud.

[Lycanroc]

Imho, Carbine made a pretty big mistake by announcing bits and pieces of the game over such a long time.

This wouldn`t have been the case, but sadly the release date got pushed to 2014, and they couldn`t (and cannot) give away every bit of information otherwise there`d be no element of intrigue left.

Due to this unfortunately situation Wildstar (at least to me) seems like an already launched game, whereby nothing new is being launched; and people have already started comparing it to other mmos that have failed. Which, in fact, is far from the real case; geme luks gud.

Now, the stuff they've announced seems fresh and good, but the implementation of their mechanics has met with poor criticism, which is why people here are upset. According to the things we've heard, most people do NOT believe that it's worth a box price and sub.

I meant to post this weeks ago, but I've been away:

B2P (GW2) model pros and cons:
+ Player feels less entitled to new content.
+ A player can pick up the game and drop it at any time, without the worry of spending money.
+ Players can spend their money as they choose.
+ Developers get money from the boxes sold and the in-game store.
- If the box doesn't sell well, the company has had a major loss and the game fails. (This is a big one.)
- Content may not get pushed out quickly, unless they have an insane team like Anet.

F2P pros and cons:
+ Player can pick it up more easily.
+ Player can choose what they pay for.
+ Player feels less entitled.
- Content may not get released as quickly.
- (Not much of an issue here.) Player may have to pay to win, although doubtful, since p2w models don't do well for non-Asian gaming markets.
- The company could lose money.

P2P model pros and cons:
+ The company may gain more monetary success at the beginning of a game.
+ Large-scale content may be easier for the company to release.
- Most players can only afford one MMO at a time, and most P2P model players would be WoW players.
- WoW player market is difficult to compete with.
- Players feel extremely entitled to the things they want.
- P2P MMO may be hard for a market flooded with new P2P mmos for people to pick up.

[Vespian]

I assume most people in competitive PvP will use the autoaim feature. If someone doesn't, they are going to be at an extreme disadvantage.

Just so I get the picture on this auto-aim thing;
- This is PvP only?
- This turns the game into what is essentially a HOTKEY MMO as TB once described it, or for more accuracy, a TAB-Targeting game?

[llDemonll]

I was unaware they had an auto-aim feature

[Kelimbror]

- This turns the game into what is essentially a HOTKEY MMO as TB once described it, or for more accuracy, a TAB-Targeting game?

Yep. Ask Zito about it...it's what they've been raving about in being so angry this isn't action combat.

I was unaware they had an auto-aim feature

Me too, but I've seen it in action. Pretty sure it even completely turns your character for you so it is worse than other games.

As it stands it seems the skill shot design is only viable for questing and anything in a PvE setting where you may have to use a spell on something untargetable. I haven't heard them mention a concept like this and it's gimmicky for a raid boss at best..so..yeah.

It's a little disappointing for people to say the least. For me personally, I have no problems with it as I like hotkey combat just fine.