Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Master Guns]

According to what the Z team felt from their ki, Cold was already stronger and he was only in his second form, while Frieza was in his final, and enhanced by his cybernetic implants. If both were in their fourth (original) forms, Cold would squash Frieza like an insect.

False. It's stated in the Manga that Freeza is much stronger than his father, who is not ever revealed to actually have any other forms. We only insinuate that because his model looks similar to Freeza's second form, but this is pure speculation.

It's also disproved by the fact that he had ample time to transform against Trunks, but didn't, and stalled for time other than to transform. If Cold had another form, he would have transformed, no question, his life was on the line.

[GennGreymane]

well transformation requires time, freeza needed some time even small to get to form 3, trunks was a no shit kinda guy. he would have finished him in that time. also cold may have been unable to control his higher power, which is why he is in form 2 instead of 1.

[Zoma]

False. It's stated in the Manga that Freeza is much stronger than his father, who is not ever revealed to actually have any other forms. We only insinuate that because his model looks similar to Freeza's second form, but this is pure speculation.

I just re-read that part of the manga, and I didn't see anything that says Frieza is much stronger than Cold. All it said about Cold's power was that it was a huge ki like Frieza's, with no reference as to whether it was more or less.

It's also disproved by the fact that he had ample time to transform against Trunks, but didn't, and stalled for time other than to transform. If Cold had another form, he would have transformed, no question, his life was on the line.

That's open to interpretation. I always viewed it as him under-estimating Trunks. Maybe he really did think the sword was the reason Trunks won. Also keep in mind that Future Trunks is pretty much the only person that doesn't sit back and let people transform.

[Master Guns]

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

His father is standing right next to him when he says this. There is no evidence that state Cold is stronger than freeza, only damning evidence to the contrary, IMO.

It's also stated in the official Japanese guidebooks (a canon source of information by all fan standard) that Cold is inferior to Freeza power level wise.

[GennGreymane]

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

His father is standing right next to him when he says this. There is no evidence that state Cold is stronger than freeza, only damning evidence to the contrary, IMO.

It's also stated in the official Japanese guidebooks (a canon source of information by all fan standard) that Cold is inferior to Freeza power level wise.

in his second form

[Master Guns]

The guidebooks don't mention him having different forms.

Freeza also states that he created his forms to suppress his power, due to him being so powerful that he was unable to control his energy.

If cold is vastly inferior to freeza to begin with, there would be no need for him to have forms. Forms are only a way to manage and tier energy.

[rad586]

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

His father is standing right next to him when he says this. There is no evidence that state Cold is stronger than freeza, only damning evidence to the contrary, IMO.

It's also stated in the official Japanese guidebooks (a canon source of information by all fan standard) that Cold is inferior to Freeza power level wise.

Don't forget about the size of Freeza's ego. That's why he is saying those things, even though I do recall him saying at one point that the only people he ever lost to were Goku AND Freeza's father.

[Master Guns]

That was anime filler when he said that his father beat him. In the manga he says that goku is the only person to ever get dust on him in a fight. In no way did he say he actually beat him or hurt him.

I mean, I'm only arguing from the PoV of the manga. Because that's what I prefer, it's Toriyamas original work, and it wasn't written by Toei animation, which DBZ the anime was. So I'll always side with the manga. I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything. I'm really not trying to.

It's just that, when debating about DBZ, I have a theory:

If it's said in the manga, and isn't contradicted anywhere, it's fact.

If it's said in the anime, and contradicted by the manga, it's false.

If it's said in the manga, and is contradicted by the anime, it's still fact, because the change in the anime is Toei filler.

I just base my ideals and debates off that chart.

Other quotes from the manga to support my theory:

Chapter: 332 (DBZ 138), P6.1-2
Context: after Trunks kills Freeza
Cold: “My, you are capable, aren’t you? Marvelous, truly more than I imagined…To think that you could wipe my son Freeza out in that instant…How about it? Will you take Freeza’s place and become my child? Certainly you, the strongest in the universe, are qualified to join my clan.”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan.”

That second quote implies that Freeza (organic) was the most powerful until Goku showed up.

[Deleted]

These are good points... i also never jumped the train which said king cold would be on a Level with Perfect Cell if he transformed.
The fact that the "Frost Demons" learn new forms to decrease their power instead of increasing it means that Cold is probably so weak that he doesn't need to go to his first Form to control his energy. The only Form that increases Powerlevel is Cooler's but the Movies are quite non-canon and most likely alternative Timelines.

But if King Cold is weaker than Freeza why would they come to earth to challenge Goku? They know that he is a lot stronger than Freeza was even at 100% Power and even if King Cold was only a little bit weaker than Freeza or on the same Level there is no chance for them to beat him. Freeza had a Powerlevel of 120mio on Namek and it pretty sure didn't increase by getting cut into half, nearly dying and getting some Mecha-parts attached, Goku had 150mio on Namek and it rather increased because of training on the planet where he learned instant teleportation and Zenkai. And two 120mio fighters never beat a single 150mio Fighter.

[Master Guns]

Freeza indeed got stronger than on namek when he came to earth.

[Zonas]

Wasn't it said that King Cold and Freeza were at the same strength at the time? I can't remember the exact words, but I do think they say how they are almost identical. So, if King Cold was only at his second form, then it would be probable that he could be stronger. He seemed to have as much of an ego as Freeza did anyway, it wouldn't be surprising to think he wasn't at full power, in order to show off, then didn't have the time to change when Trunks showed up.

It would also beg the question that, if Freeza was stronger than his father, why was King Cold the head of the evil... whatever they are empire?

On the train of thought about Robo-Alien, it got me thinking. Was there supposed to be more to Future Trunks than what they showed. I mean, I've never really looked into the manga, so I'm not sure how they portray him in comparision. But look at how he's like when he first shows up. With his stupid handsigns for his energy attacks and sword moves. Then, when he shows up in later episodes, he's dumbed down into another punching bag. Hell, I think the only other time he uses the sword is against 18 that one time, where she immediately breaks it. Only for it to come back in Super 13, for it to get smashed entirely.

It just seems like a sudden shift in what they were trying to do with him from when he fights Freeza, to when we see him throughout the rest of the series. Not to mention he's apart of one of the dumbest moments I've seen in DBZ. You probably know what I mean, when Vegeta's entire fight with Cell's second form is highlighted by Trunk's inner turmoil about showing up his daddy, then for it to have no actual meaning because, for some reason, extra muscle mass somehow slows you. You know, despite the fact that, throughout the series, size really had nothing to do with speed.

[Master Guns]

No, that was never said lol. I have no idea where you are getting that. It's never stated in either the manga or the anime that Cold and freeza are equal in power.

King Cold was the head of the Planet Trade Organization because he was the King.

Much like King Vegeta was the King of the Saiyans even though the Prince of the Saiyans was much stronger.

[GennGreymane]

hard to say, kid vegeta was not stronger than his father,but eventually surpassed him.his father did not train like young veggie did.

also maybe cold cant suppress his power in a form 1 like freeza can, because he has too much powa.

[Deleted]

I watched all Dragon Ball as kid. Gosh so many hours spent watching it.
And one of my favorite moments of from whole series is the moment when Goku fights with Frieza and become Super Sayan for the first time

[Deleted]

I always assumed King Cold wasn't as strong as Frieza and that the form he showed up in was his final one. And he ruled over the Planet Trade Organization just because he has done so before he got his sons and they never fought him for it. It makes the most sense to me, because in the original timeline it was Goku that killed both of them instead of Trunks. And Goku wouldn't kill King Cold without letting him transform, so I'm assuming he simply couldn't.

[AndyF1069]

In the anime, Frieza states to Goku "You're the first person to truly hurt, besides my loving parents that is". Don't know how reliable that is, especially as we never saw a second parent from any source.

[Rendia]

I think the problem some people are forgetting is, Frieza's "4th Form" was actually the Acrosian's NATIVE form. That means it was really his base form, not a transformation. If we accept that as true, Cold was more powerful because he was ~equal to Frieza at 100% + Mechanical improvements while he was only at his 3rd form (counting backwards, which it should be done that way).

[Master Guns]

In the anime, Frieza states to Goku "You're the first person to truly hurt, besides my loving parents that is". Don't know how reliable that is, especially as we never saw a second parent from any source.

It isn't reliable because that completely changes the wording of the manga.

In the manga, freeza says (after goku does a kamehameha against him and does no damage) "Hmm..ho ho..impressive..you got me dirty..you're the first person to get me dirty besides my parents."

He was just mocking goku, but in the anime they change the wording.

[Deleted]

He was just mocking goku, but in the anime they change the wording.

Also, who knows if Frieza was born with the same powers as he has when he fights Goku. Maybe his 1% form is his normal, and his 100% is trained/powered up?

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Also, who knows if Frieza was born with the same powers as he has when he fights Goku. Maybe his 1% form is his normal, and his 100% is trained/powered up?

Frieza doesn't strike me as the type to train, He's evidently Daddy's favorite, and his power is absolute, so he likely never did train often (if at all).