Haste vs mastery arcane

[Heilige]

yeah, i agree with your point. I just think that simcraft isn't modeling 2% on AB proc

I'd personally say I get ~5% proc rate on AB's - but perhaps I could just be winning the lottery consistantly for the past 3-4 weeks.

---------- Post added 2011-09-17 at 12:38 AM ----------

Its actually 1768 and change after the decimal point without a shadow priest in the raid. With a shadow priest its 1076 or there about. Less if you are a Goblin due to the 1% racial.

Your goal with haste is to hit the 1 second gcd under lust. After you do that, you stack mastery.

No. It's 1768 assuming you have 5% spell haste in raid, not without.

[Vibbard]

I would recommend going with mastery

[Dusteyy]

I have tried both as well (w/ and w/o haste cap of 1768). I did not "sim" them, but rather simply reforged it all and went to the test dummy. My dps was about 1.5k higher stacking mastery (I have about 1k haste with that setup).

IMHO, stacking haste is a waste. For the short amount of time during a fight that you are lusted (40 seconds), is it really worth focusing your entire reforge on getting that time to 1sec? The other 9.5 minutes you are fighting, 80% of the time you will be at your 85 - 95% mana and working with mastery, so why not stack that? To me it is just not worth stacking the haste. Mastery has worked best for me so far, just my 2 cents.

Armory: (in pvp atm)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hiale/advanced

[TheEaterofSouls]

Does it matter whats on the gear itself as long as its got no spirit? Or not. As in:
"Could I reach soft cap by gemming/forging/chanting alone. Does it matter if its got crit on it?"

Ex: [coller of bones] is usable for me?

[Taurrus]

From my own experience I did try to get as close to the "soft haste cap" as most suggested, I reached around 1630 or so and 1500+ mastery my dps went down for around 2k or so. I was constantly around 25k dps on most Firelands bosses (Except Bird fight), but after reforging it was around 22k.

Right now I'm at 27k or so having 2038 mastery (volcano trinket) and 1273 haste, and I'm doing a lot better.

[nimryas]

I think the main reason why you see alot of people reforging differently is because they have got a different setup with their raids. Since there's shitloads of 10man raiding groups/guilds since cataclysm it's harder to get all the possible buff for your group. I don't got a 5% haste buff in my group, therefore my hastcap is higher, i am a goblin tho The second reason (I think) is that the values of secondairy stat for players differ because they've got different setups of gear.

[Makoblade]

I don't know why you would want Heroic Firelands gear if you don't want Haste.

Common sense dictates that Int is still significantly more valuable than green stats. Heroic gear has more int, among other things. Not sure why you'd think that favoring mastery over haste means you avoid heroic items... You still don't want to aim for the hilarious misconception known as the haste soft-cap. All it means is you favor mastery from the start.

[Swizzle]

Common sense dictates that Int is still significantly more valuable than green stats. Heroic gear has more int, among other things. Not sure why you'd think that favoring mastery over haste means you avoid heroic items... You still don't want to aim for the hilarious misconception known as the haste soft-cap. All it means is you favor mastery from the start.

Heroic gear grants you the soft-cap and then some, even when fully reforged out of Haste. So...yeah, that misconception, while hilarious, is unavoidable. Unless of course you forgo Int and favor Mastery, but I don't know how one would go about that.

[mostlyharmless]

As others have said, optimal/expert arcane play will favor mastery in actual raiding, but haste is very strong as well. I reforge my crit to mastery first, haste second. I only reforge haste to mastery if my mastery is low (like lower than haste).

Honestly though, if you had haste and mastery about the same, you'd probably be within 200 dps of optimal - it's a tiny difference usually, other factors will hugely outweigh it. I mean if you totally screw up your gems and reforging, but position yourself really well and nail burn/conserve phases, you'd easily outperform someone with stronger and perfectly set up gear who isn't playing quite as well. I constantly have better geared mages asking me for advice when I'm pugging rag on my alt mage. They easily out-dps me for the first burn phase, but I pull way ahead of them over the fight. I'm really friendly and tell them about MageManaBar, when I'm doing burn phases and so on. I never look at their gear and tell them to tweak their gems or reforging, those are laughably insignificant factors.

[jedistump]

mastery>crit>haste

team mastery

if haste is unavoidable on 378, o well.

when i went full mastery my dps went up 3k. real world results trump sims. just test everything.

-edit-
haste and mastery are inherently counter productive.

[Dusteyy]

-edit-
haste and mastery are inherently counter productive.

Interesting point. Never really heard that spelled out before. Don't know if thats 100% true, but interesting point none the less.

[Swizzle]

Interesting point. Never really heard that spelled out before. Don't know if thats 100% true, but interesting point none the less.

Haste burns through Mana quicker reducing time spent under full Mastery. It's not inherently counter productive since it's still the same amount of casts under the same amount of mana just burned through quicker leaving less time for regen. That being said, AB is still the vast majority of your damage, and you want to maximize the output you have with AB, which gives Haste value (otherwise BL and Berserking would be a DPS loss for Arcane).

Both are valuable, but the way I look at it is will that 1% additional damage granted by Mastery be more than the damage gained from additional ABs? If yes, then you want that Mastery, if no you want that Haste.

[Makoblade]

Heroic gear grants you the soft-cap and then some, even when fully reforged out of Haste. So...yeah, that misconception, while hilarious, is unavoidable. Unless of course you forgo Int and favor Mastery, but I don't know how one would go about that.

Full Heroic gear while maintaining hit cap is 1774 haste after reforge. If you favor mastery > hit you can drop haste to around 1440, but you'd be sitting around 1300-ish hit. ss

You could always gem mastery instead of int if you wanted to make the trade... not that it'd be an intelligent decision.

[Swizzle]

Full Heroic gear while maintaining hit cap is 1774 haste after reforge. If you favor mastery > hit you can drop haste to around 1440, but you'd be sitting around 1300-ish hit. ss

You could always gem mastery instead of int if you wanted to make the trade... not that it'd be an intelligent decision.

Why would anyone value Mastery over Hit?

[Makoblade]

Why would anyone value Mastery over Hit?

The value of being hit capped is often times exaggerated. Plus then you'd get to play the lottery.

It's not really the case for mages since the best gear affords enough reforging to reach 17% and even though mastery is the strongest between crit/haste/mastery, it's not actually exceptional like haste is for priests.

[Makarena]

got 1337 haste, feeling well
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../zhenek/simple.
personally, if you are going for rank and fights are a breeze for you: haste is good on rhyolith and beth'tilac coz u wanna burn ur mana asap squeezing more arcane blasts coz otherwise mobs will die before you even do good dmg to them. On fights like baleroc or majordomo where u can do like 3 burns haste is irrelevant since u have 100% dps uptime and u hardly need to do anything but dps. With legendary I reckon haste is supreeme stat even after 1768, coz more arcane blasts u do, more procs u get- more dmg you do, and I reckon the proc dmg outweights the mastery loss.

[Wilderness]

The value of being hit capped is often times exaggerated. Plus then you'd get to play the lottery.

It's not really the case for mages since the best gear affords enough reforging to reach 17% and even though mastery is the strongest between crit/haste/mastery, it's not actually exceptional like haste is for priests.

The value of hit is often exaggerated when compared to Int - ie keeping a lower ilevel item that has hit when you could upgrade to something without hit but with more Int, deciding between an Int trinket or a hit trinket, or when looking at the Int/Hit wrist enchants. Int is always far and away the superior stat for Arcane mages. But generally you are going to be comparing hit to the other secondary stats and hit is still always the best option.

[Minimemage]

Once you've gotten to around the 1.3-1.4s range (wherever you may lie in that second's interval) on AB4 then Mastery has been clearly superior in my experience. If you can stay reliably at 95% mana in conserve you can really get some great conservation phase dps out of it with a good mastery gearset, esp when your mirror procs with some other things (lightweave/torrent).

[Deleted]

Haste for me tbh. I tried going all out mastery, but I do a lot better with haste to softcap instead of getting all the mastery I possibly can.